Is there room for any religion that cannot be criticised?

[Ðanisty]

"Muslim extremists" will do nicely. It's not like it's inextricably intertwined into one word or anything.

Oh good,then I just misunderstood you. It seemed like you were saying we couldn't identify them as Muslim.

 

[Sunstone]

Oh good,then I just misunderstood you. It seemed like you were saying we couldn't identify them as Muslim.

Me, I just refer to all rabid Muslim extremists as "Those Fullyveiled Muslimah Folks". I figure you can't get more extremist than that.

 

[Booko]

Oh good,then I just misunderstood you. It seemed like you were saying we couldn't identify them as Muslim.

Well, they identify themselves as Muslims, so it would be kinda hard to avoid referring to it at all. Sorry for the confusion.

Me, I just refer to all rabid Muslim extremists as "Those Fullyveiled Muslimah Folks". I figure you can't get more extremist than that.

FVM has been cloned? She's become rabid? When did she get bit by that raccoon that's beens spotted in my neighborhood? :slap:

 

[gnostic]

From what i understand, the murdered nun is not even Danish. If there is any logic to murder and Danish cartoons, then I am not seeing it.

 

[love]

I do not watch "news" as much as I used to. It is not because I don't care.It is because it is a little more information than I need.
I live physically in a small world. I can only hope that my actions can have a ripple effect to join with those who wish peace on Earth.
In my small world everyone I meet I start off with a smile.
People come to me for a service I can provide. I treat them fair and they tell other people.
I meet many different personalities, and in a rural environment this can be quiet interesting.
Should I be concerned that some dufus halfway across the world drew a cartoon?
Not a good reason to take the day off.
Seems a lot of the decision makers look for any conflict available.
Your peace must be stronger.
If God is long suffering, how can we be intolerant?
Religion should never come between you and God.
All people are God's creation

 

[LumpHammer]

The largest right-wing bloggers, such as Michelle Malkin and Charles Johnson, devote themselves on a virtually daily basis to condemning Muslims and mocking Islam. During the "Mohammed cartoon" controversy, they repeatedly published the blasphemous cartoons. Malkin has a blogger on her Hot Air blog who derisively blogs under the name "Allah". Were fatwas issued against them? Are they living in seclusion, under 24-hour guard from the Grave Islamic Menace that lives in Kirchick's head?

Yep. Blogs. And how many people do they reach? I am talking about the way the media pussyfoot around the issues. The BBC in Britain didn't show the 'offensive' pictures, which in ANY other case it would have. Comedians may take the occaisional pop, but it's very very carefully.

As to the OP, what can I say? Would you tell a raving drunk that you slept with their mother? Would you poke an angry Pit Bull with a sharp stick? Would you go up to a 3 year old and scream, "Santa is not real! Get over it!" Just sigh and apply the same logic functions to actions that make you want to pull your hair out.

The thing is, a single drunk, or a dog etc is not threatening my way of life, my freedoms. The lastest crappy cartoon in Sweden for instance...Demands were made to punish the guy responsible. Of course that won't happen. But what happens when the population of Muslims gets to a point where they can actually change government policy? France is now around 10% muslim...and rising.

I know that the growth of the Muslim population has been faster, which causes some difficulties as people get used to it. And in the U.S., well our country was built on immigrants, so we're a little more used to the idea of assimilating people (even though we've had our difficulties over the years), so that works to our advantage.

See above... The population rise of muslims is outstripping the rise in other faiths, and atheists. Imagine if it gets to a level where they start getting laws passed?

We all can learn from each other, I agree. It's just that it seemed as if Europeans becoming Muslim means the end of the world as we know it. Or that we'll have another Taliban, because we know how all Muslims are evil terrorists

The thought of an Islamic Europe makes me physically sick. Name me one Islamic state that is not completely backward in respect to human rights? Strangely enough I have no problems with individual muslims, but as a whole I believe they represent the biggest threat the world has seen...

 

[YmirGF]

Yep. Blogs. And how many people do they reach? I am talking about the way the media pussyfoot around the issues. The BBC in Britain didn't show the 'offensive' pictures, which in ANY other case it would have. Comedians may take the occaisional pop, but it's very very carefully.

It is called Dhimmitude which is in effect enforced subservience to Muslim cultural norms by non-Muslims theoretically living in Muslim countries. This concept is now being expanded into non-Muslim countries with considerable success. Part of the reason for this success is our overwhelmingly absurd idea to be "politically correct". Heaven forbid anyone ever get offended by anything. Oddly, I don't respect the beliefs of Charles Manson's followers, why should I respect anyone's ideas when I think they are basically "misguided"?

The thing is, a single drunk, or a dog etc is not threatening my way of life, my freedoms. The lastest crappy cartoon in Sweden for instance...Demands were made to punish the guy responsible. Of course that won't happen. But what happens when the population of Muslims gets to a point where they can actually change government policy? France is now around 10% muslim...and rising.

That is a bother for sure, but how to stop it? If you think that the cartoon fiasco was bizarre how do you think sanctions against Muslims living in non-Muslims democracies would go over? What will be, will be, and it is simply better to learn to adapt. Not to say we should NOT be allowed to be highly critical if we so desire. In theory, we live in "free" countries... in theory... as long as one remains insipidly politically correct, of course.

See above... The population rise of muslims is outstripping the rise in other faiths, and atheists. Imagine if it gets to a level where they start getting laws passed?

Well, if any one group ever becomes dominant and suplants the indigenous group(s) then the game goes to them and they have every right to do as they please... even install a theocracy that abandons democracy as we know it. Tough darts, eh?

The thought of an Islamic Europe makes me physically sick. Name me one Islamic state that is not completely backward in respect to human rights? Strangely enough I have no problems with individual muslims, but as a whole I believe they represent the biggest threat the world has seen... A huge 1+ billion army of brain-washed zombies.

Beats me, is there one? I agree that it is a very telling aspect of Islam. Different standards, I suppose. Come now, brutal execusions in public would make Survivor a far more interesting show. *giggles* Frankly, I think the Ummah will eventually tire of the rabble besmirching the "good name" of Islam and put a stop to it themselves. I do not see Islam as the biggest threat to the world although it is certainly up there. There is always the possibility that some extremist wacko jacko will "get lucky" and do something very stupid and many people will die as a result of their unsound reasoning. What Third world Muslims do not seem to appreciate is that 9/11 merely woke America up... it will take a lot more to tick America off so she is not quite so concerned about anything other than reprisal.

 

[michel]

Is there room for any religion that cannot be criticised?

I don't believe that any Religion can be criticised; maybe the interpretation of the followers, but no religion per se.

 

[YmirGF]

I don't believe that any Religion can be criticised; maybe the interpretation of the followers, but no religion per se.

*hands Michel a Prozac*

Um, Michel, anything can be criticised. Why exactly are religions exempt from this? Is it because no one can prove a balley thing they are saying to begin with and so criticsm in that case is moot?

 

[MaddLlama]

I think there there should be a happy medium between someone being able to criticize a religion, and also having some respect for it, or at least for its followers.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Criticism can be and often is Beneficial.
negative criticism is totally useless.
Unless criticism servers a positive purpose is is simply an attack.
With out Positive criticism we never progress.

 

[Lecter]

The thought of an Islamic Europe makes me physically sick. Name me one Islamic state that is not completely backward in respect to human rights? Strangely enough I have no problems with individual muslims, but as a whole I believe they represent the biggest threat the world has seen... A huge 1+ billion army of brain-washed zombies.

I want you to read what you just wrote. Maybe I misunderstood you, but that was something very demeaning to say.

Let's say you have a brother and he like many others chooses to become Muslim, would that make him a brain-washed zombie over night?

If anything I'd say he's the exact opposite, because he could see behind what the media tells him about this religion and can see it for what it really is. He's not brain-washed by the media to hate Islam.

If you want to know about Muslims when they were most fundamental to their religion I suggest you look up the golden age of Islam.

 

[Lecter]

In the U.S., we not only have a right to our opinion, but the right to express our opinion in ways that might displease other people.

I get that. I meant it as in if you wanted to discuss something over here in the forum. If your aim is to curse at others, feel free to do so. But if your aim is to have a civilized dialog then there's a certain way to do it.

I think it would be tragic to pretend to respect the opinions of people who riot over cartoons.

1. It's interesting that you think that's what we ALL do.

2. It's even more interesting you gave yourself the right to express your opinion in ways that might displease others, yet they don't have the same right.

With that said I am and will always be against violence of course. Demonstrations and the like are something else entirely.

 

[fullyveiled muslimah]

Me, I just refer to all rabid Muslim extremists as "Those Fullyveiled Muslimah Folks". I figure you can't get more extremist than that.

And you know you can't get more extreme than me!! I'm koo-koo for coco puffs:drool: you didn't know?!

 

[Smoke]

I get that. I meant it as in if you wanted to discuss something over here in the forum. If your aim is to curse at others, feel free to do so. But if your aim is to have a civilized dialog then there's a certain way to do it.

I was referring to the Danish cartoons.

1. It's interesting that you think that's what we ALL do.

No, I don't think that's what you ALL do. But there are certainly a lot of you who do. And I noticed that even many of the Muslims who didn't react violently still called for the punishment of the cartoonists and the economic boycott of Denmark. If that's an appropriate reaction to a few Danish cartoons, what would be an appropriate reaction to Muslim violence and terrorism?

It's even more interesting you gave yourself the right to express your opinion in ways that might displease others, yet they don't have the same right.

I would have disapproved of the Danish cartoonists if they had set fire to buildings and killed random Muslims as a way of expressing their opinion. What's really interesting is that someone would be unable to see the difference between cartoons on the one hand and arson and murder on the other.

 

[mcteethinator]

I think one of the reasons the media tip-toes is that they don't want to fuel the anti-Muslim fire. I think they realize that it results in such things as Mosques being vandalized, Sikhs being murdered for looking like Muslims, etc... They have to be careful that by condemning Osama they aren't also condemning your average Mr. and Mrs. Habib as well.

 

[Popeyesays]

There really isn't such a thing as ANYTHING that cannot be criticized.

Criticism part of living, and not being able to respond constructively to criticism is not a sign of maturity.

If religious zealots react violently to criticism it reflect on those people not the religion.

Regards,

Scott

 

[Grappleberry Punch]

If anything, people need to tone down ridiculous anti-Islam criticism. Are you fearing for your life as you write that? Ignorance about Islam and ridiculous statements is at an all time high, if anything.

The Muhammad Cartoons were written just to get a rise out of people, and that's exactly what they did. It was disrespectful, and a few people took their offense to some extremes. Funny though, since all I saw on the media was whining over "them crazy Muslims"--despite the fact that only a very small minority of Muslims reacted to those cartoons violently. What does any of this have to do with Islam? Nothing. I mean plenty of people riot, and over far less blatantly divisive things than religion--sports, for example. I'm too busy looking at real threats to freedom of expression--my Christian president, for example. Riots aren't going away any time soon, they're a very human reaction, not tied to any specific religion.

I don't think that's true at all. Remember the riots in France in 2005? American news outlets were blathering about "youth unrest;" I didn't see any stories that intimated that they were Muslim youth who were rioting. Even when they reported that the rioters were broadcasting "prayers" on loudspeakers, they never said they were Muslim prayers. It was often mentioned that the rioters were immigrants, but no story I saw said Muslim immigrants. Every story I read that mentioned Muslims in connection with the riots mentioned them sympathetically, as being disturbed by the rioting. It was really striking the lengths reporters went to to dissociate Islam from the rioting.

And why wouldn't they? Do we need more Islamophobia? What does their religion have to do with their reactions to unjust police action? Furthermore, they weren't all Muslim. They were mostly immigrants, and yea, a lot of those immigrants happen to be Muslim, but plenty of native French people and second generation Portuguese immigrants played their role too, so what a ridiculous example. And I think that those kids dying is a pretty serious thing, much more serious than the riots. And when an action is really motivated by religion (so long as that religion is Islam), the media makes damn sure we know it.

 

[jonny]

Critisize all you want, but you're not going to make many friends doing it. If you do make friends by critisizing people, they're probably not the type of people who are going to be a positive influence in your life.

 

[Lecter]

No, I don't think that's what you ALL do. But there are certainly a lot of you who do.

That is exactly my point. You want to judge over one billion people because of the actions of a few?

Did you hear about all the Muslim scholars on TV talking against the violence? Did you hear about the Muslims who were actually having a dialog with Danish people?

You never, or rather rarely hear about those. Because the only time a Muslim is on TV, is when he's angry or burning something.

How would you feel as an American if I judged you because of the actions of the KKK?

I have never met one Muslim who spoke bad about Ameriacns because of the KKK. (we have other reasons to speak bad about America though )
That's because you as American people recognized how bad that is and now have laws against those kind of things. And that's something worth respect.

What I'm trying to say is that not all Muslims are angels of course, but we aren't devils either. Only very few of us do such acts, and the majority of us are against them.