Milton Platt
Well-Known Member
Yep, I agree with that.I was trying to get them to reflect on what is and is not conscious.
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Is the universe conscious of itself...
- Thread starter Eyasha
- Start date
Yep, I agree with that.I was trying to get them to reflect on what is and is not conscious.
Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
I don't see that we have enough information to conclude the universe -or beyond -does not have a brain.
We may not have direct evidence that it does -but we cannot conclude that it does not.
Technically, the universe has many brains -the question is whether or not there is one brain for which the entire universe -or beyond -is the body
outhouse
Atheistically
We can imagine anything we want. That does not make it real.
We have enough information to know that not all matter has a brain.
There is no evidence at all the universe has a conscious mind, nor any that it can or even would, so we can safely say the universe is factually not conscious.
psychoslice
Veteran Member
The universe is not a self, that is a human concept, the universe is One, there is not parts to it, it does what it does, and needs no beliefs or concepts to be attached to it.
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
psychoslice
Veteran Member
It sounds like that, but no, it isn't. not when you truly realize that there is only One, language does though get in the way..Though saying the universe is "One" is attaching a belief or concept.
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
Are you talking about the experience of non-duality, or something else?
Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
I disagree. That could very well be like looking at a body part and safely assuming it had no mind or was not factually conscious.
Taken as a whole, there is much evidence to suggest that some sort of "brain" acts through the universe.
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
Like what, exactly?
Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
You might not see it as such, but the fact the fact that we are doing this right now says quite a bit about that which preceded us -just as a cast and a mold are indicative of each other. Unfortunately, things such as the evolution vs creationism debate actually cloud the issue and tend to focus on various smaller aspects of the whole -rather than seeing as much of the whole as possible and allowing that to guide open-minded investigation.
Then there are such things as the history of humanity having been written down beforehand -laying about pretty much everywhere -and, again, unfortunately, not many are interested in looking into the matter seriously.
outhouse
Atheistically
You mean we should call rocks conscious?
Factually there is none.
psychoslice
Veteran Member
The only thing we can truly understand is through experience, but even that is not what is experienced, the experience is secondary to that which IS, so yea, I am sharing what I have experienced, but please don't believe what I say, only you can know through your own experience, language only turns what IS into a mere concept.
Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
1- No. However, even our own consciousnesses act through rocks/other elements and arrangements thereof. We do quite a bit with silicon, copper, plastic, etc... such as this.
(Interesting verses on the subject....
Mat_3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
Luk_3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.)
2- Technically, that is correct -if you mean that we are not able to travel to the brain, point at the brain -and say... there is the brain....
There is, factually, evidence which does suggest or indicate there is some sort of brain, but there is no factual evidence of the brain itself... its location, etc...
outhouse
Atheistically
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Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
If I chunk a rock at a possum -my consciousness has acted -through that rock -having already acted through the elements and forces of my body.
The stuff around us is made of the same stuff as us -and we act through it.
What are you trying to say? Maybe it has acted by that rock -but what about manipulation of electricity -that is acting through copper, etc.....
Just popped into my head....... if you consider how water might be made into wine... you might think it impossible -but the fact is you do not know how it would be possible.
It might be correct to say that the human body alone does not have the necessary interface to enable it to do certain things -but that is not to say those things are impossible.
We already make changes by will -but through a limited interface.
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outhouse
Atheistically
No. nothing went through to a rock. It did not act through a rock.
Your conscious mind made a decision and your body acted. not the rock. Anything else is word games.
Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
No -you are playing word games -and you know I am correct.
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
OK, so we have an experience and then make some assumptions about the meaning of that experience...but it's all pretty subjective really. It's often tempting to project out our experiences, to assume that what we experience reflects reality "out there"....maybe it does, maybe it doesn't.
psychoslice
Veteran Member
Yes and you are right, but that is all we can do as the so called mind body organism, and really, who cares if its right or wrong, after all no one can ever be right, because everything we come up with, is just a concept, no matter how intelligent we think we are, in fact intelligence keeps us away from the truth.
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
I don't think intelligence is a problem, it's more wishful thinking, basing beliefs on limited subjective experience. One of my Buddhist teachers used to talk about "embracing uncertainty".