Is the holy spirit, God, or something else?

[katiemygirl]

One of the many verses that tells us about the Holy Spirit or the Spirit of God is found in Luke 1. "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee:" We see hear, once again, the Holy Spirit is God's power. Very easy to understand. It is not a person, it is part of God. It is His power.

You have not explained why the Holy Spirit refers to Himself in the Scripture as HE and not an IT. You have not explained how it is that the Holy Spirit grieves, intercedes, comforts, guides or is lied to if He is only an active force.

Jesus also displayed God's power. Are you willing to say Jesus was not a person?

If this is all so easy to explain, as you claim, then how about answering my questions?

 

[atpollard]

Stephen said, "Lord Jesus receive MY spirit. He was speaking of his own spirit, not the Holy Spirit.

Acts 7:55 (which was in the quoted text).
Beyond that, I trust that Steven was at Pentecost and received the Holy Spirit with the others, and I believe Paul that the Holy Spirit is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance (that would include Stephen).
So, (imho) the Holy spirit is not present in the Heaven at the event quoted because he is still busy on the Earth ... which is the same reason Satan and his fallen angels are not currently in the lake of fire.

 

[katiemygirl]

Acts 7:55 (which was in the quoted text).
Beyond that, I trust that Steven was at Pentecost and received the Holy Spirit with the others, and I believe Paul that the Holy Spirit is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance (that would include Stephen).
So, (imho) the Holy spirit is not present in the Heaven at the event quoted because he is still busy on the Earth ... which is the same reason Satan and his fallen angels are not currently in the lake of fire.

GOD is a title, representative of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

GOD is omnipresent, everywhere at the same time.

The Holy Spirit dwells in every christian everywhere, at the same time. Why would you have difficulty believing the Holy Spirit can be everywhere except in heaven? Maybe you don't believe He is GOD, Or maybe you don't believe He is omnipresent?

Again, listen to what Stephen is saying."Lord Jesus, receive MY spirit."

MY spirit is not the Holy Spirit.

When we die, our spirits return to GOD. Ecc.12:7

I trust you believe we each have a spirit.

 

[moorea944]

You have not explained why the Holy Spirit refers to Himself in the Scripture as HE and not an IT. You have not explained how it is that the Holy Spirit grieves, intercedes, comforts, guides or is lied to if He is only an active force.

Jesus also displayed God's power. Are you willing to say Jesus was not a person?

What? Why would I say that Jesus is not a person?.... All through the NT, it tells us that God was working through His son...... So yes, Jesus did displayed God's power. Paul even says that Jesus is the power and wisdom of God.

If this is all so easy to explain, as you claim, then how about answering my questions?

Unlike English, Greek (and many other languages) give nouns a gender. There are male nouns and female nouns. The Greek word for spirit (hagios) is a male gender noun. Therefore the male definite article is used. In French the female and male definite articles are 'la' and 'le'. In Spanish they are 'el' and 'la'. We would say el toro (the bull) but not 'la' toro as we would be defaming the bull as being effeminate, just by using the feminine definite article. In French we would say 'La mason es verde' and translate that as either ... 'The house is green' or 'The house, she is green'... as both would be technically accurate. Translators inappropriately inserted the masculine pronoun (he, him) in instead of the English genderless definite article (the).

We see another example of this in John 1 where the inappropriate use of a personal pronoun is applied instead of a definite article in relation to the Greek term 'logos' meaning word. We read in the KJV: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Not only did the translators inappropriately use the personal pronoun (him) when "it" would have been the appropriate transition into English, they also inappropriately capitalized Word when there was no justification. The oldest manuscripts we have from which the NT was translated not only have all letters capitalized but there is no punctuation whatsoever in those manuscripts. It is translators whim that they use the masculine gender pronoun (him) instead of the genderless definite article (it). It is also translators whim they they capitalized Word as if it were a proper name. When they could, translators would twist the translation into whatever supported their distorted preferences. Although the KJV is not really all that bad, a perfect example of this problem would be the New International Version. That doesn't even qualify to be called a translation. That is nothing bur a paraphrased version the Bible that is absolutely God despising with its endless false translations.

If the Holy Spirit were actually a person that would present a highly degrading image of Mary's impregnation with Jesus by the Holy Spirit. It would also make Yahweh a liar when he says that He knows of no other God beside Him(Is. 44:6-8).

I can explain even more if you would like. But something tells me.... your still going to believe that the Holy Spirit is a person....

 

[katiemygirl]

Translators inappropriately inserted the masculine pronoun (he, him) in instead of the English genderless definite article (the).

It is translators whim that they use the masculine gender pronoun (him) instead of the genderless definite article (it). It is also translators whim they they capitalized Word as if it were a proper name. When they could, translators would twist the translation into whatever supported their distorted preferences. Although the KJV is not really all that bad, a perfect example of this problem would be the New International Version. That doesn't even qualify to be called a translation. That is nothing bur a paraphrased version the Bible that is absolutely God despising with its endless false translations.

If the Holy Spirit were actually a person that would present a highly degrading image of Mary's impregnation with Jesus by the Holy Spirit. It would also make Yahweh a liar when he says that He knows of no other God beside Him(Is. 44:6-8).

I agree with you about the NIV. Although my knowledge of the Greek is extremely limited, as I believe yours is, I feel the same as you about many of the modern translations. They show a great deal of bias as does your NWT, and it doesn't take a Greek language expert to recognize it.

I believe your explanation of pronouns is flawed, and only reflects New World translators views, and not the views of the world's most reputable Greek scholars.

I could argue using the same arguments the leading scholars have made, and you could answer my argument with your JW material. That would be a waste of both of our times. Neither of us has a degree in the Koine Greek language.

Putting the pronouns aside for a moment, you have not addressed how an active force can be lied to, how an active force can be grieved, how an active force can be sinned against, how an active force can be honored and obeyed, or how an active force can comfort, guide, be a helper, or have a will.

 

[atpollard]

GOD is a title, representative of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
GOD is omnipresent, everywhere at the same time.
The Holy Spirit dwells in every christian everywhere, at the same time. Why would you have difficulty believing the Holy Spirit can be everywhere except in heaven? Maybe you don't believe He is GOD, Or maybe you don't believe He is omnipresent?
Again, listen to what Stephen is saying."Lord Jesus, receive MY spirit."
MY spirit is not the Holy Spirit.
When we die, our spirits return to GOD. Ecc.12:7
I trust you believe we each have a spirit.

Easy there ... you are yelling at the choir ...

Acts 7:55-56 says

55 But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. 56 “Look,” he said, “I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”​

Peg quoted those verses and concluded:

A very compelling argument against the holy spirit being a person is found in the account about Stephen.
Stephen is given a vision of heaven, and looking in he see's God and Jesus at his right hand... but no holy spirit. If the holy spirit is a person, and if he is really the 3rd person of the trinity, then surely Stephen would have seen 3 individuals in heaven. But no, he sees only Jesus and Jehovah.

I responded with my personal speculation that:

The Holy Spirit was INSIDE Stephen.
When Jesus work on Earth was finished, Jesus returned to the Father in Heaven.
When the work of the Holy Spirit on Earth is finished (with the final judgement and eternal dwelling of God with men), then the Holy spirit will return to the Father in Heaven.
His work is not finished yet, so he does not yet rest in Heaven.

To which you twice reply:

Stephen said, "Lord Jesus receive MY spirit. He was speaking of his own spirit, not the Holy Spirit.

Again, listen to what Stephen is saying."Lord Jesus, receive MY spirit."

and say lots of mean things that hurt my feelings [OK, not really].

I am going to have to insist that
Acts 7:55 "But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God."
is NOT talking about Stephen's Spirit (which, yes, I believe that he has) but is actually talking about the Holy Spirit (third person of the trinity) which is also inside Stephen.

I stand by my opinion (which is just that, my opinion) that the Holy Spirit does not appear in visions of Heaven standing alongside the Father and Son on center stage because he still dwells within God's people.
If you have another explanation (which would be your opinion) of why Stephen saw two figures in Heaven and did not see three persons (in Acts 7:55-56) ... feel free to respond to Pegg's comment.

 

[katiemygirl]

Easy there ... you are yelling at the choir ...

Acts 7:55-56 says

55 But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. 56 “Look,” he said, “I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”​

Peg quoted those verses and concluded:


I responded with my personal speculation that:


To which you twice reply:



and say lots of mean things that hurt my feelings [OK, not really].

I am going to have to insist that
Acts 7:55 "But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God."
is NOT talking about Stephen's Spirit (which, yes, I believe that he has) but is actually talking about the Holy Spirit (third person of the trinity) which is also inside Stephen.

I stand by my opinion (which is just that, my opinion) that the Holy Spirit does not appear in visions of Heaven standing alongside the Father and Son on center stage because he still dwells within God's people.
If you have another explanation (which would be your opinion) of why Stephen saw two figures in Heaven and did not see three persons (in Acts 7:55-56) ... feel free to respond to Pegg's comment.

Pegg doesn't believe in the same Holy Spirit that I do. She thinks of Him as an "active force." She does not believe the Holy Spirit is God. So there would be no point in my responding to Pegg, unless she chooses to post questions to me.

It is possible that I am misunderstanding you, and for that, let me apologize. It is not my intention to misrepresent you.

So let me post up the passage under discussion.

Acts 7
55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, 56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. 57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord, 58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul. 59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

There is no question that Stephen was full of the Holy Spirit. I agree with you 100%.

I also agree with you that our God is triune.

I don't think you would disagree with me that Stephen prays to Jesus just prior to his death, asking Him to receive his (Stephen's) spirit, and not the Holy Spirit.

As for Stephen seeing only two figures, I don't see how you can say the Holy Spirit was not also in heaven.

If you believe the Holy Spirit is God, then you must also believe He is omnipresent, yes? If the Holy Spirit is God, then He is everywhere, is He not?

Tell me. Is Jesus here with us right now? I believe He is. Does not seeing Him mean He's not here with us? He may not be with us in His physical body, but He is here. Doesn't He commune with us each time we share His supper? And didn't He say, "For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst." Matthew 18:20

I don't see how you can say the Holy Spirit is not everywhere based on Stephen seeing only two figures. I think you limit the Holy Spirit's ability to be everywhere at all times.

Omnipresence is ascribed to the Holy Spirit in Ps. 139:7-10,

"Whither shall I go from Thy Spirit? or whither shall I flee from Thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, Thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, Thou art there. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; even there shall Thy hand lead me, and Thy right hand shall hold me."

 

[atpollard]

Pegg doesn't believe in the same Holy Spirit that I do. She thinks of Him as an "active force." She does not believe the Holy Spirit is God. So there would be no point in my responding to Pegg, unless she chooses to post questions to me.

It is possible that I am misunderstanding you, and for that, let me apologize. It is not my intention to misrepresent you.

So let me post up the passage under discussion.

Acts 7
55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, 56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. 57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord, 58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul. 59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

There is no question that Stephen was full of the Holy Spirit. I agree with you 100%.

I also agree with you that our God is triune.

I don't think you would disagree with me that Stephen prays to Jesus just prior to his death, asking Him to receive his (Stephen's) spirit, and not the Holy Spirit.

As for Stephen seeing only two figures, I don't see how you can say the Holy Spirit was not also in heaven.

If you believe the Holy Spirit is God, then you must also believe He is omnipresent, yes? If the Holy Spirit is God, then He is everywhere, is He not?

Tell me. Is Jesus here with us right now? I believe He is. Does not seeing Him mean He's not here with us? He may not be with us in His physical body, but He is here. Doesn't He commune with us each time we share His supper? And didn't He say, "For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst." Matthew 18:20

I don't see how you can say the Holy Spirit is not everywhere based on Stephen seeing only two figures. I think you limit the Holy Spirit's ability to be everywhere at all times.

Omnipresence is ascribed to the Holy Spirit in Ps. 139:7-10,

"Whither shall I go from Thy Spirit? or whither shall I flee from Thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, Thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, Thou art there. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; even there shall Thy hand lead me, and Thy right hand shall hold me."

Yes, Acts 7:59 has Stephen praying about God receiving Stephen's spirit.
Yes, the Holy Spirit in omnipresent.
... I am less sure about Jesus with us now.
In a sense yes, but I am expecting a literal return of Jesus with a real physical body ... the same one that he left with in Acts ... so in a sense 'No', I don't see that right here, right now.
No real disagreement (although I admit to having some trouble wrapping my brain around the finer details of "One God, Three Persons").

Then to be fair to Pegg's question,
Why did Stephen see 2 figures and not 1 figure (the Godhead) or 3 figures (Father, Son, Holy Spirit)?

 

[katiemygirl]

Yes, Acts 7:59 has Stephen praying about God receiving Stephen's spirit.
Yes, the Holy Spirit in omnipresent.
... I am less sure about Jesus with us now.
In a sense yes, but I am expecting a literal return of Jesus with a real physical body ... the same one that he left with in Acts ... so in a sense 'No', I don't see that right here, right now.
No real disagreement (although I admit to having some trouble wrapping my brain around the finer details of "One God, Three Persons").

Then to be fair to Pegg's question,
Why did Stephen see 2 figures and not 1 figure (the Godhead) or 3 figures (Father, Son, Holy Spirit)?

I believe we agree much more than not! I, too, await the second coming of Jesus, and we know that every eye shall see Him. I don't know that he'll have a physical body, but no doubt, what the apostles saw when He ascended, we will also see. What a day that will be!!!

Jesus, in His glorified body was able to pass through walls, yet He also ate a meal with His apostles. I don't know any human who is capable of doing both of these things. I don't think any of us understands the composition of what Jesus' body was or will be like when we see Him, nor what our bodies will be like.

I think Jesus is with us in the spiritual sense, but at the same time, He is reigning over His kingdom from His seat at the right hand of God.

One God, three persons is a difficult concept. I don't think any of us comprehend it fully.

As for Pegg, she is a JW. JW's reject the idea of a triune God. They reject that our. GOD is one GOD, yet is represented by three distinct personalities. This could be the reason she questions Stephen's vision.

May the grace of our Lord be with you, and may He help all of us to better understand His word.

 

[moorea944]

I agree with you about the NIV. Although my knowledge of the Greek is extremely limited, as I believe yours is, I feel the same as you about many of the modern translations. They show a great deal of bias as does your NWT, and it doesn't take a Greek language expert to recognize it.

I believe your explanation of pronouns is flawed, and only reflects New World translators views, and not the views of the world's most reputable Greek scholars.

I could argue using the same arguments the leading scholars have made, and you could answer my argument with your JW material. That would be a waste of both of our times. Neither of us has a degree in the Koine Greek language.

Putting the pronouns aside for a moment, you have not addressed how an active force can be lied to, how an active force can be grieved, how an active force can be sinned against, how an active force can be honored and obeyed, or how an active force can comfort, guide, be a helper, or have a will.

Maybe your just reading it wrong, since you believe it is a person and not the power of God. Can you give me some verses so I can look at them?

 

[moorea944]

I agree with you about the NIV. Although my knowledge of the Greek is extremely limited, as I believe yours is, I feel the same as you about many of the modern translations. They show a great deal of bias as does your NWT, and it doesn't take a Greek language expert to recognize it.

I believe your explanation of pronouns is flawed, and only reflects New World translators views, and not the views of the world's most reputable Greek scholars.

I could argue using the same arguments the leading scholars have made, and you could answer my argument with your JW material. That would be a waste of both of our times. Neither of us has a degree in the Koine Greek language.

Putting the pronouns aside for a moment, you have not addressed how an active force can be lied to, how an active force can be grieved, how an active force can be sinned against, how an active force can be honored and obeyed, or how an active force can comfort, guide, be a helper, or have a will.

Here are some more input on this subject. Sorry it is alittle long.

As God is a real, personal being who therefore has feelings and emotions, it is to be expected that He will have some way of sharing His desires and feelings with us, His children, and of acting in our lives in a way that will be consistent with His character. God does all of these things by His "spirit". If we wish to know God and have an active relationship with Him, we need to know what this "spirit of God" is, and how it operates.

The spirit of God somehow summarizes everything about Him. The Hebrew word translated "spirit" in the Old Testament strictly means "breath" or "power"; thus God's spirit is His "breathing", the very essence of God, reflecting His mind. We will give examples of how the word "spirit" is used about someone's mind or disposition in Study 4.3 That the spirit does not just refer to the naked power of God is evident from Rom. 15:19: "the power of the spirit of God".

It is a common Bible teaching that how a man thinks is expressed in his actions (Prov. 23:7; Matt.12:34); a little reflection upon our own actions will confirm this. We think of something and then we do it. Our 'spirit' or mind may reflect upon the fact that we are hungry and desire food. We see a banana going spare in the kitchen; that desire of the 'spirit' is then translated into action - we reach out for the banana, peel it and eat. This simple example shows why the Hebrew word for 'spirit' means both the breath or mind, and also power. Our spirit, the essential us, refers to our thoughts and therefore also to the actions which we take to express those thoughts or disposition within us. On a far more glorious scale, God's spirit is the same; it is the power by which He displays His essential being, His disposition and purpose. God thinks and therefore does things: "As I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand" (Is. 14:24).

POWER OF GOD
Many passages clearly identify God's spirit with His power. In order to create the universe, "the spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light" (Gen. 1:2,3).

God's spirit was the power by which all things, e.g. light, were made. "By His spirit He hath garnished the heavens; His hand hath formed the crooked serpent" (Job 26:13). "By the word of the Lord were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of His mouth" (Ps. 33:6). God's spirit is therefore described as:-
His breath

His word

His hand.

It is therefore His power by which He achieves all things. Thus believers are born again by God's will (Jn. 1:13), which is by His spirit (Jn. 3:3-5). His will is put into operation by the spirit. Speaking of the entire natural creation, we read, "Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and (thereby) thou renewest the face of the earth" (Ps. 104:30). This spirit/power is also the sustainer of all things, as well as the means of their creation. It is easy to think that this tragic life stumbles on without this active input of God's spirit. Job, a man who became weary of this life, was reminded of this by another prophet: "If he (God) gather unto himself his spirit and his breath; all flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust" (Job 34:14,15). When pulling out of a similar trough of depression, David asked God to continue to uphold him with this spirit, i.e. to preserve his life (Ps. 51:12).

We shall see in Study 4.3 that the spirit given to us and all creation is what sustains our life. We have "the breath of the spirit of life" within us (Gen. 7:22 A.V. mg.) given to us by God at birth (Ps. 104:30; Gen. 2:7). This makes Him "the God of the spirits of all flesh" (Num. 27:16 cp. Heb. 12:9). Because God is the life force which sustains all creation, His spirit is present everywhere. David recognized that through His spirit God was constantly present with him wherever he went, and through that spirit/power He was able to know every corner of David's mind and thinking. Thus God's spirit is the means by which He is present everywhere, although He personally is located in heaven.

Notice, too, how the Holy spirit is paralleled with the power of God in the following passages:

"The Holy Ghost (Spirit) shall come upon thee (Mary), and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee" (Lk.1:35)
"The power of the Holy Spirit...mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God" (Rom.15:13,19)
"Our gospel (preaching) came...in power, and in the Holy Spirit" (1 Thess. 1:5).
The promise of the Holy Spirit to the disciples was spoken of as their being "endued with power from on high" (Lk. 24:49).
Jesus himself had been "anointed...with the Holy Spirit and with power" (Acts 10:38).

Paul could back up his preaching with undeniable displays of God's power: "My speech and my preaching was...in demonstration of the spirit and of power" (1 Cor. 2:4).

 

[katiemygirl]

Maybe your just reading it wrong, since you believe it is a person and not the power of God. Can you give me some verses so I can look at them?

Yes, the Holy Spirit is the power of God, but this does not make the Holy Spirit an IT or an active force. The Holy Spirit is MUCH MORE than just the power of God.

You seem to take a mighty leap here. You go from the Holy Spirit being the power of God, to calling Him an active force. The Holy Spirit is NEVER referred to as such in the Scriptures, therefore, you shouldn't be calling Him that either. The Holy Spirit dwells within Christians, and it is through His power that we are convicted of sin and able to overcome it. The Holy Spirit empowers us.

Matthew 28:19 teaches us to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, three very distinct personalities.

If the Holy Spirit is a mere active force, why did Jesus command baptism IN THE NAME OF the Holy Spirit along with the Father and the Son?

The Father has a personality. The Son has a personality. The Holy Spirit has a personality.

All three can be described as having the same essence. A mere force could not possess these attributes. Only our GOD can.

The Holy Spirit is eternal (Heb. 9:14),

He is omnipresent (Psalm 139:7),

He is omniscient (1 Cor. 2:10-11)

The above attributes belong to GOD alone.

How can an active force experience the following?

The Holy Spirit speaks (Acts 13:2).

We are not to grieve the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 4:30).

The Holy Spirit can be sinned against (Isaiah 63:10)

The Holy Spirit can be lied to (Acts 5:3).

We are to obey Him (Acts 10:19–21)
and honor Him (Psalm 51:11).

He guides (Romans 8:14)

He comforts (John 14:26)

He convicts (John 16:8)

He teaches (John 16:13)

He gives commands (Acts 8:29).

He has a will (1Cor.12:11)

Both apostles, Peter and Paul refer to the Holy Spirit as GOD.

In Acts 5:3-4, Peter referred to the Holy Spirit as God, stating,

“Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.”

Paul likewise referred to the Holy Spirit as God in 2 Corinthians 3:17–18, stating,

“Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.”

Can you, without the help of Watchtower, explain all of the verses I have given you to consider?

 

[Ingledsva]

One of the many verses that tells us about the Holy Spirit or the Spirit of God is found in Luke 1. "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee:" We see hear, once again, the Holy Spirit is God's power. Very easy to understand. It is not a person, it is part of God. It is His power.

Yep! It makes it very plain. It is the working power of YHVH, - not a person.

Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and that power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God."

*

 

[Ingledsva]

Yes, the Holy Spirit is the power of God, but this does not make the Holy Spirit an IT or an active force. The Holy Spirit is MUCH MORE than just the power of God.

You seem to take a mighty leap here. You go from the Holy Spirit being the power of God, to calling Him an active force. The Holy Spirit is NEVER referred to as such in the Scriptures, therefore, you shouldn't be calling Him that either. The Holy Spirit dwells within Christians, and it is through His power that we are convicted of sin and able to overcome it. The Holy Spirit empowers us.

Matthew 28:19 teaches us to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, three very distinct personalities.

ING - Actually this should probably be translated -

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and with the Holy Pneuma/POWER:


If the Holy Spirit is a mere active force, why did Jesus command baptism IN THE NAME OF the Holy Spirit along with the Father and the Son?

ING - It doesn't call pneuma a name.


The Father has a personality. The Son has a personality. The Holy Spirit has a personality.

All three can be described as having the same essence. A mere force could not possess these attributes. Only our GOD can.

The Holy Spirit is eternal (Heb. 9:14),

ING - YHVH's POWER would be - would it not?


He is omnipresent (Psalm 139:7),

ING - His POWER would be - would it not?


He is omniscient (1 Cor. 2:10-11)

ING - 1Co 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Pneuma/POWER and of Dunamis/Strength/Mighty works/Miracles:

1Co 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the Pneuma/Power of God.

1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by HIS Pneuma/POWER: for that POWER searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

1Co 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Pneuma/Power of God.


The above attributes belong to GOD alone.

ING - They show that Pneuma - Holy Spirit - is the POWER of YHVH.


How can an active force experience the following?

The Holy Spirit speaks (Acts 13:2).

ING -


Act 13:2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, lay forth the Pneuma/POWER of the Most Sacred, Separating me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.

Act 13:3 And when they had fasted and prayed, and laid their hands on them, they sent them away.

Act 13:4 So they, being sent forth by the Holy Pneuma/POWER, departed unto Seleucia; and from thence they sailed to Cyprus.



We are not to grieve the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 4:30).

ING - Eph 4:30 And grieve not the Holy Pneuma/POWER of God, whereby/by which ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.



The Holy Spirit can be sinned against (Isaiah 63:10)

ING - Isa 63:10 But they rebelled, and provoked his Holy Ruach/ANGER/Power: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.


The Holy Spirit can be lied to (Acts 5:3).

ING - Act 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart/MIND to attempt to lie to the Holy Pneuma/POWER, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

Act 5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart/MIND? Thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.


We are to obey Him (Acts 10:19–21)

ING - Act 10:19 While Peter thought on the vision, the Pneuma/POWER (of YHVH) conveyed unto him, Behold, three men seek thee.

Act 10:20 Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them.

Act 10:21 Then Peter went down to the men which were sent unto him from Cornelius; and said, Behold, I am he whom ye seek: what is the cause wherefore ye are come?


and honor Him (Psalm 51:11).

ING - Psa 51:10 A heart pure create in me, O Elohiym; a Ruach/Spirit/Power appoint anew within me.


Psa 51:11 Don't cast me out from your presence; Your Holy Ruach/Power don't take from me.


He guides (Romans 8:14)

He comforts (John 14:26)

He convicts (John 16:8)

He teaches (John 16:13)

He gives commands (Acts 8:29).

He has a will (1Cor.12:11)

ING - I'm not going to do all of these - as you can see above,
that every one of them means POWER of God - not a third person.

Both apostles, Peter and Paul refer to the Holy Spirit as GOD.

ING - God's POWER, not a third person.

In Acts 5:3-4, Peter referred to the Holy Spirit as God, stating,

“Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.”

ING - Answered above.


Paul likewise referred to the Holy Spirit as God in 2 Corinthians 3:17–18, stating,

“Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.”

Can you, without the help of Watchtower, explain all of the verses I have given you to consider?

EXPAND HERS -

Again - Power - not a third person.

“Now the Lord is the Pneuma/POWER and where the POWER of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the POWER.”

*

 

[atpollard]

Yep! It makes it very plain. It is the working power of YHVH, - not a person.
Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and that power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God."
*

A staggering number of unrelated teams of translators disagree with whoever you are quoting from.
I find it more plausible that your translation is flawed than everyone else got it wrong.

 

[Ingledsva]

A staggering number of unrelated teams of translators disagree with whoever you are quoting from.
I find it more plausible that your translation is flawed than everyone else got it wrong.

Then obviously you don't understand that this religion came out of the Hebrew with - ONE God - not a Pagan trinity.

There is no actual trinity in the Bible.

The Bible does NOT say their is a trinity - anywhere.

Jesus does not say he is God, or part of any trinity.

(And don't even try the - I and my Father are one, - as it means in complete accord, and NOT one person.)

At the Councils of Nicea - the trinity people won, and silenced the correct - ONE GOD people.

*

 

[atpollard]

Then obviously you don't understand that this religion came out of the Hebrew with - ONE God - not a Pagan trinity.

There is no actual trinity in the Bible.

The Bible does NOT say their is a trinity - anywhere.

Jesus does not say he is God, or part of any trinity.

(And don't even try the - I and my Father are one, - as it means in complete accord, and NOT one person.)

At the Councils of Nicea - the trinity people won, and silenced the correct - ONE GOD people.

*

A beautiful strawman, but your translation still stands alone.

 

[katiemygirl]

A staggering number of unrelated teams of translators disagree with whoever you are quoting from.
I find it more plausible that your translation is flawed than everyone else got it wrong.

Whose post are you addressing here?

 

[katiemygirl]

A beautiful strawman, but your translation still stands alone.

Again, whose post are you addressing?

 

[atpollard]

Again, whose post are you addressing?

I guess that you have Ingledsva on ignore.
He or she was talking smack about the Holy Spirit and I challenged the translation of the verse that was quoted.