Is the biblical god a racist?

[Dano]

In the bible, god seems to choose and prefer one race above all others. He orders them and helps them to defeat and exterminate other peoples. He also tells them to take the land that is inhabited by other people and to exterminate all those inhabitants.

Does this apparent preference for one race make god a racist?

 

[ChristineES]

God loved Abraham because he (Abraham) walked with God. I wouldn't call that racism- I would call it a story where everyone was ignoring God and Abraham wasn't- and God rewarded him for it.
But then I am not a bible scholar.

 

[ragordon168]

In the bible, god seems to choose and prefer one race above all others. He orders them and helps them to defeat and exterminate other peoples. He also tells them to take the land that is inhabited by other people and to exterminate all those inhabitants.

Does this apparent preference for one race make god a racist?

no but it does show the way of thinking of the culture to which the authors belong. it was ok for them to kill, plunder and occupy other nations as they were gods 'chosen people'.

it was the same in WW1 both sides claimed their side was right and they would win because god was supporting them not the opposition.

 

[idea]

In the bible, god seems to choose and prefer one race above all others.

It only seems that way because you are only using the Bible. There are other scriptures written by other tribes / other people. Put all the records of all the people together, and you will find He is not racist. (When Jewish people arein captivity, are killed by others... who are the "chosen people" during these times?)

3 And because my words shall hiss forth—many of the Gentiles shall say: A aBible! A Bible! We have got a Bible, and there cannot be any more Bible.
4 But thus saith the Lord God: O fools, they shall have a Bible; and it shall proceed forth from the Jews, mine ancient covenant people. And what thank they the Jews for the Bible which they receive from them? Yea, what do the Gentiles mean? Do they remember the travails, and the labors, and the pains of the Jews, and their diligence unto me, in bringing forth salvation unto the Gentiles?
5 O ye Gentiles, have ye remembered the Jews, mine ancient covenant people? Nay; but ye have cursed them, and have bhated them, and have not sought to recover them. But behold, I will return all these things upon your own heads; for I the Lord have not forgotten my people.
6 Thou fool, that shall say: A Bible, we have got a Bible, and we need no more Bible. Have ye obtained a Bible save it were by the Jews?
7 Know ye not that there are more nations than one? Know ye not that I, the Lord your God, have created all men, and that I remember those who are upon the isles of the sea; and that I rule in the heavens above and in the cearth beneath; and I bring forth my word unto the children of men, yea, even upon all the nations of the earth?
8 Wherefore murmur ye, because that ye shall receive more of my word? Know ye not that the atestimony of btwo nations is a cwitness unto you that I am God, that I remember one dnation like unto another? Wherefore, I speak the same words unto one nation like unto another. And when the two enations shall run together the testimony of the two nations shall run together also.
9 And I do this that I may prove unto many that I am the asame yesterday, today, and forever; and that I speak forth my words according to mine own pleasure. And because that I have spoken one word ye need not suppose that I cannot speak another; for my work is not yet finished; neither shall it be until the end of man, neither from that time henceforth and forever.
10 Wherefore, because that ye have a Bible ye need not suppose that it contains all my words; neither need ye suppose that I have not caused more to be written.
11 For I command all men, both in the east and in the west, and in the north, and in the south, and in the islands of the sea, that they shall write the words which I speak unto them; for out of the cbooks which shall be written I will judge the world, every man according to their works, according to that which is written.
12 For behold, I shall speak unto the Jews and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto the Nephites and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto the other tribes of the house of Israel, which I have led away, and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto all nations of the earth and they shall write it.
(Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi29:3 - 12)

 

[idea]

38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.
(New Testament | Luke3:38)

Everyone always skips over all the "begetting" accounts... This should not be skipped over...

What does this mean - Adam, son of God?


Adam is our grandfather... God is our Grandfather.

We are all Grandchildren of God - we are His literal children - all of us - we are all in the same family.

God has no favorites when it comes to His children. Just dfferent ways of talking to different people.


Do you have kids? Do you have grandchildren? Do you love some of your kids more than others? You might treat some differently, but you love them all the same.


11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
(New Testament | Romans2:11)

 

[Dunemeister]

Please note carefully the original call of God to Abraham:

Now YHWH said to Abram, ‘Go from your country and your kindred and your father’s house to the land that I will show you. I will make of you a great nation, and I will bless you, and make your name great, so that you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and the one who curses you I will curse; and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.'
Genesis 12:1 - 3, emphasis mine

Israel, the nation created out of Abraham's descendents, is to carry on this calling. So yes, one nation was chosen, but that nation wasn't chosen as an end in itself. It was chosen in order to bring blessing to the nations. One may wonder why God would choose a person, then a family, and then a nation to do this rather than use some other method. What one cannot say is that God is racist for doing it this way.

 

[MissAlice]

Meh...I think it's the people not the religion that make it racist. It's pretty common of many religions to fight over how one race or tribe of people is more divine than another. Take for instances of "the chosen people" or land of the Israelites or manifest destiny or Palestine...etc. Usually these ideologies use religion or god as to why they should be segregated or treated differently than another group of people. Really it just boils down to social hiearchy and it's even found within religions themselves.

 

[ragordon168]

Please note carefully the original call of God to Abraham:

Now YHWH said to Abram, ‘Go from your country and your kindred and your father’s house to the land that I will show you. I will make of you a great nation, and I will bless you, and make your name great, so that you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and the one who curses you I will curse; and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.'
Genesis 12:1 - 3, emphasis mine

Israel, the nation created out of Abraham's descendents, is to carry on this calling. So yes, one nation was chosen, but that nation wasn't chosen as an end in itself. It was chosen in order to bring blessing to the nations. One may wonder why God would choose a person, then a family, and then a nation to do this rather than use some other method. What one cannot say is that God is racist for doing it this way.

god is not racist the authors were. if you write that your people are gods chosen and are responsible for spreading 'his' word (their own variant) then it strokes the populaces egos and makes them feels superior. think about ancient greeks, anyone not greek was a 'barbarian' and not as sophisticated as the greeks, giving the greeks a superiority complex.

 

[Smoke]

In the bible, god seems to choose and prefer one race above all others. He orders them and helps them to defeat and exterminate other peoples. He also tells them to take the land that is inhabited by other people and to exterminate all those inhabitants.

Does this apparent preference for one race make god a racist?

Yes, if we define "race" as meaning a people -- as in the Irish race. The Bible god, at least in the passages you're referring to, is a tribal god. He is the creature of a people who wanted a god in part to help them against other peoples. Gods always love the people who make 'em -- and most of the time, they love them more than anybody else, too.

 

[Dunemeister]

god is not racist the authors were. if you write that your people are gods chosen and are responsible for spreading 'his' word (their own variant) then it strokes the populaces egos and makes them feels superior. think about ancient greeks, anyone not greek was a 'barbarian' and not as sophisticated as the greeks, giving the greeks a superiority complex.

It may stroke the ego, but on the other hand, look what else these "racists" said about themselves (putting these words in the mouth of God no less). Note that in the day, the size of the nation's population was taken to be a sign of divine blessing and/or approval:

It was not because you were more numerous than any other people that YHWH set his heart on you and chose you—for you were the fewest of all peoples. It was because YHWH loved you and kept the oath that he swore to your ancestors, that YHWH has brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you from the house of slavery, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
Deuteronomy 7:7-8
​

In other words, there was nothing so very great about them that caused God to honour them or choose them. No ego-stroking there.

Besides, if a sense of racial superiority was what motivated the conquest of Canaan and the destruction of its inhabitants, why wasn't the task carried through? And why was this logic not carried through to become a central part of the Israelite ethic (for example, as we saw in the US where racism became a central part of the nation's ethic with Jim Crowe laws)? Indeed, it seems the opposite is true:

there shall be one law for the native and for the alien who resides among you.
Exodus 12:49 (contrast this with the Jim Crowe laws)

You shall not oppress a resident alien; you know the heart of an alien, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt.
Exodus 23:9
​

The racist interpretation, whether applied to God or the authors of the bible simply makes no sense.

Now of course, we might argue that at times, Israel did not conduct herself according to her best lights. Fair enough. But we are here asking whether racism formed the basis of Israel's ethic. Clearly it didn't.

 

[justify]

He is not racist, he loves all men.

 

[Dano]

It only seems that way because you are only using the Bible. There are other scriptures written by other tribes / other people. ...

I am referring to the story of the god that is described in the bible. There are certainly many more accounts of gods in many books claiming almost anything imaginable and I wouldn’t waste my time on that.
The bible story is still the basis of powerful and privileged religions in western society and the related religions tend to claim the moral high ground without being duly challenged. This is why I bother to take issue.

god is not racist the authors were. ...

....without the authors there is probably no god.

...Besides, if a sense of racial superiority was what motivated the conquest of Canaan and the destruction of its inhabitants, why wasn't the task carried through? ...

There are just those other bits in the bible that bother me.

e.g. Laws Concerning War with Canaanite Nations (in Deuteronomy)

20:16 As for the cities of these peoples that the Lord your God is going to give you as an inheritance, you must not allow a single living thing to survive. 20:17 Instead you must utterly annihilate them – the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites – just as the Lord your God has commanded you.

Joshua did quite a good job of killing most of them later (if he didn’t quite succeed he may have failed to carry out gods command fully).

Now, I admit, this is rather evidence of gods genocidal tendencies, but it also shows his disregard for other races and the preference for his chosen people. I suppose it depends on ones definition of racism.

 

[idea]

I am referring to the story of the god that is described in the bible. There are certainly many more accounts of gods in many books claiming almost anything imaginable and I wouldn’t waste my time on that.
The bible story is still the basis of powerful and privileged religions in western society and the related religions tend to claim the moral high ground without being duly challenged. This is why I bother to take issue.

There are many books about God above and beyond the Bible which are most definately not a waste of time. :yes:

(PS - I quoted from one of them earlier)

 

[Dunemeister]

There are just those other bits in the bible that bother me.

e.g. Laws Concerning War with Canaanite Nations (in Deuteronomy)

20:16 As for the cities of these peoples that the Lord your God is going to give you as an inheritance, you must not allow a single living thing to survive. 20:17 Instead you must utterly annihilate them – the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites – just as the Lord your God has commanded you.

Joshua did quite a good job of killing most of them later (if he didn’t quite succeed he may have failed to carry out gods command fully).

That's simply not true. The conquest was piecemeal and quite incomplete.

Now, I admit, this is rather evidence of gods genocidal tendencies, but it also shows his disregard for other races and the preference for his chosen people. I suppose it depends on ones definition of racism.

It shows none of this. It shows rather that God has the right to enact judgment on nations that do wrong. And he had patience with the Canaanites, executing judgment only when they had reached a stage where God could no longer justify withholding (e.g., they sacrificed children to their gods, engaged in widespread temple prostitution, oppressed the poor, all with no sign of regret let alone repentance). If God has the right to execute judgment, then there simply is no need to view God in the way that you have done.

 

[Dano]

I am quite astonished that people can be happy with this kind of god. If that’s what you want – there is not much more I can say.

 

[Perfect Circle]

I am quite astonished that people can be happy with this kind of god. If that’s what you want – there is not much more I can say.

He seems to "grow up" as the book goes on...

 

[Caladan]

In the bible, god seems to choose and prefer one race above all others. He orders them and helps them to defeat and exterminate other peoples. He also tells them to take the land that is inhabited by other people and to exterminate all those inhabitants.

Does this apparent preference for one race make god a racist?

No, it means that like all other cultures, the society and classes behind the bible had their own ideologies and they certainly worked hard on achieving their goals.
like all people of past and present they had an ideology about the status of their nation, the Greeks and Romans considered all others to be 'barbarians', in the ancient Egyptian language the word for a human being was also the word for 'Egyptian' as if the people outside the land of the Nile were living outside the realm of humanity. some nations, no matter how large have remained veiled from the rest of the world under a cloak of xenophobia until this very day.
if we take a tour to the pantheons of the nations, the Judeo image of God becomes very intriguing and humane on many levels. for example, no longer is human sacrifice permitted when it comes to the religion of the Bible, while in other religions- some of them around the land of the bible human sacrifice was practiced with passion.
stripping the bible off of its historical context does not mean much. if the point you want to make is that certain aspects of those religions which hold the bible dear are unjust, prejudiced, or racist, then I suggest you dissect a largest religious phenomena to make a more relevant point; point out the certain problems you feel society should deal with, point out what you feel is an outdated religious doctrine or point out the specific individuals or groups who are responsible for injustice. because I can assure you there are many biblical interpretations, some of them are contemporary, and others need refreshing.

 

[Dano]

No, it means that like all other cultures, the society and classes behind the bible had their own ideologies and they certainly worked hard on achieving their goals.
like all people of past and present they had an ideology about the status of their nation, the Greeks and Romans considered all others to be 'barbarians',...

Yes, the stories in the bible(s) are based on the writings of ancient Jewish tribes who were completely ignorant of modern knowledge and moral values and should have little relevance to modern life.

They created a god and religion (by partly plagiarizing the myths of other cultures) to suit their own goals and there is no surprise that this god is favouring and serving the Jewish people above all others (is this not racist?).

In a historic context, the Jewish god may be less barbaric than some of the Egyptian or Roman gods – but is one supposed to marvel that there are even worse gods than the biblical god? (incidentally, regarding human sacrifices: Jephthah sacrifices his daughter in Judges 11:39)

Most people would not pray to Egyptian or Roman gods and would regard the thought as preposterous – so why are they so happy to worship a Jewish tribal god who may be slightly less barbaric in a historic context?

if the point you want to make is that certain aspects of those religions ...

I do not intend to write a book about certain aspects of bible based religions. This thread is mainly about the question whether the biblical god can be regarded as racist.

However, as these religions are firmly based in the bible(s), they should and stand and fall with the bible. Therefore I use that very bible to challenge their claims.

I am also not interested in reforming or refreshing religions. I would be quite happy if people could abandon religions altogether and face reality without religious crutches.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Smoke,

Gods always love the people who make 'em -- and most of the time, they love them more than anybody else, too.

Valid point! the second part is understood as the creator of the god will surely love that god they create.
frubals!

Love & rgds

 

[Caladan]

Yes, the stories in the bible(s) are based on the writings of ancient Jewish tribes who were completely ignorant of modern knowledge and moral values and should have little relevance to modern life.

They created a god and religion (by partly plagiarizing the myths of other cultures) to suit their own goals and there is no surprise that this god is favouring and serving the Jewish people above all others (is this not racist?).

<snip rant>

However, as these religions are firmly based in the bible(s), they should and stand and fall with the bible. Therefore I use that very bible to challenge their claims.

I am also not interested in reforming or refreshing religions. I would be quite happy if people could abandon religions altogether and face reality without religious crutches.

good luck with that oh so noble and selfless cause. excuse me while I stand on the side and watch you try to preach your gospel to people while they do the same to you. watching the two parties trying to destroy each other has become like going back to the scene of an accident.
from what I gather from posts like that, is that many people who refer to themselves as atheists are incredibly obsessed with the Christian God just as they were in the days when they were believers. many of us other atheists, have far more constructive things to busy ourselves with.