1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Is suicide a sin if the person is an intelligent/responsible human being?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by paarsurrey, Apr 22, 2019.

  1. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Messages:
    20,142
    Ratings:
    +2,639
    Case in study some 2000 years ago in Jerusalem,please.
    Is it a sin,please?
    or it is no sin,please.
    First to define as to what one understands from the word "suicide", one's own understanding, not from a lexicon,please.
    Thread open to everybody of religion or no religion, absolutely no restriction,please.

    Regards

    ____________
    1. Thread prompted from the thread of our friend @shunyadragon in another Forum post #1 .
    2. The exact location Golgotha, or Calvary, was, according to the Gospels, a site immediately outside Jerusalem's walls.
    3. Tomb of Joseph of Arimathea. [​IMG]The Garden Tomb in Jerusalem.
    4. Tomb of Hazrat Youza Asaf at Roza Bal.Youza Asouph and Syed Nasir-u-Din[​IMG] Roza Bal shrine – The sign reads "Ziarati Hazrati Youza Asouph and Syed Nasir-u-Din.
    5. Witness of Jesus after some 1850 years in Iran maybe or may not be, Mírzá Ḥusayn-`Alí Núrí.
    6. Jesus in Kashmir
    7. Meher Baba, 1925[edit]
      [​IMG]
      Meher Baba (1894-1969)
      According to Indian spiritual master Meher Baba, when Jesus was crucified, he did not die physically. But, he entered the state of Nirvikalp Samadhi (the I-am-God state without bodily consciousness). On the third day, he again became conscious of his body, and he travelled secretly in disguise eastward with some apostles, most importantly with Bartholomew and Thaddeus, to India. This was called Jesus' resurrection. After reaching India, Jesus travelled further east to Rangoon, in Burma, where he remained for some time. He then went north to Kashmir, where he settled. After Jesus's spiritual work was completed, Jesus subsequently dropped his body, and the body was buried by the Two Apostles in Harvan, at Kan Yar, district of Kashmir.[50]

      Holger Kersten, 1981[edit]
      In 1981, Holger Kersten, a German writer on esoteric subjects popularised the subject in his Christ Lived in India.[51] Kersten's ideas were among various expositions of the theory critiqued by Günter Grönbold in Jesus in Indien. Das Ende einer Legende (Munich, 1985).[52] Wilhelm Schneemelcherstates that the work of Kersten (which builds on Ahmad and The Aquarian Gospel) is fantasy and has nothing to do with historical research.[11]Schneemelcher states that Kersten combines elements from various previous authors such as Notovitch, Ahmadiyya beliefs, and Levi Dowling.[11]Gerald O'Collins also states that Kersten's work is simply the repackaging of a legend for consumption by the general public.[12]

      Among texts cited by Kersten, following Andreas Faber-Kaiser, is the third khanda of the Pratisarga Parvan in the Bhavishya Mahapurana which contains discussion of "Isa Masih" and Muhammed. However Indologists such as Grönbold note that this section postdates not just the Quran,[53] but also the Mughals. Hiltebeitel (2009) establishes 1739 as the very earliest possible date for the section.[54]
     
    #1 paarsurrey, Apr 22, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2019
  2. England my lionheart

    England my lionheart Rockerjahili Rebel
    Premium Member It's My Birthday!

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    19,316
    Ratings:
    +4,397
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Suicide imo has a massive impact on people like family and loved ones but if,in certain circumstances someone is in pain mentally or phsysically they should be able with support to check out.
     
  3. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2012
    Messages:
    36,097
    Ratings:
    +16,324
    Religion:
    liber-scripta grim Christian
    Many people have for many centuries considered it to be a sin. Murder is a sin, and so killing ones own self can be considered murder in a way. To many people there are absolutely no exceptions.

    Other people do not see it that way. It is because not everyone sees this in the say way that it is a gray area.

    Jesus was killed for protesting. It was not a suicide. The alternative was to capitulate with corruption, and he chose to allow himself to be killed instead.
     
  4. Cleary

    Cleary God is sovereign and in control <><

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2019
    Messages:
    137
    Ratings:
    +44
    Religion:
    christian
    we are ALL sinners ... suicide or not suicide, just admit it
    Jesus was not killed for protesting, His death was God's plan for the salvation of man from the beginning
    Jesus > willed < his own death
     
  5. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Messages:
    20,142
    Ratings:
    +2,639
    Is suicide a sin if the person is an intelligent/responsible human being?

    Further to the OP #1:


    1. "Swami Abhedananda, 1922[edit]
    Main article: Swami Abhedananda
    In 1922 Swami Abhedananda, the founder of Vedanta Society of New York 1897 and the author of several books, went to Himalayas on foot and reached Tibet, where he studied Buddhistic philosophy and Lamaism. He was one of the skeptics who tried to debunk Nicholas Notovitch and disprove the existence of the manuscript about Jesus in India. However, when he reached Hemis monastery he found the manuscript which was a Tibetan translation of the original scrolls written in Pali. The lama said that it was a copy and the original was in a monastery at Marbour near Lhasa. After Abhedananda's death in 1939, one of his disciples inquired about the documents at the Hemis monastery, but was told they disappeared.[40][41]"
    Unknown years of Jesus - Wikipedia
    2.Jesus In India
    by Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, The Promised Messiah and Mahdi (as)
    Jesus In India | Islam Ahmadiyya
    3.BBC Documentary:
    <iframe width="384" height="254" src="" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
    4.Jesus in Kashmir (India)-Documentary by Indian Govt.
    <iframe width="384" height="254" src="" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>​

    Regards
     
    #5 paarsurrey, Apr 22, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2019
  6. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Messages:
    20,142
    Ratings:
    +2,639
    As per the Christian core creed Jesus came to this world to die a cursed death for atonement of their sins and to save them. This means his death on Cross was a suicide one.
    Wasn't it, please?

    Regards
     
    #6 paarsurrey, Apr 22, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2019
  7. England my lionheart

    England my lionheart Rockerjahili Rebel
    Premium Member It's My Birthday!

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    19,316
    Ratings:
    +4,397
    Religion:
    Atheist
    If there was a jesus and if the story was true about the crucifiction was true it was more a case for murder and defiance I'm.
     
  8. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Messages:
    20,142
    Ratings:
    +2,639
    But being a god, as per the Christianity, Jesus himself decided that he himself should die on the Cross, so definitely it was a suicide case. It also makes him sinful having committed a suicide, so an innocent man becomes sinful so this suicide was meaningless as as per , Christianity, only death of an innocent man cannot atone their sins. So the sins of the Christianity people remains without atonement and it adherents unsaved by their non-innocent Savior. Right, please
    A futile exercise, isn't it, please?

    Regards
     
  9. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Messages:
    20,142
    Ratings:
    +2,639
    Is suicide a sin if the person is an intelligent/responsible human being?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Christ of Kashmiris by Anand Krishna
    Jesus in Kashmir

    Regards
     
  10. England my lionheart

    England my lionheart Rockerjahili Rebel
    Premium Member It's My Birthday!

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    19,316
    Ratings:
    +4,397
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Ask your god :)
     
  11. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Messages:
    20,142
    Ratings:
    +2,639
    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim. In Islam suicide for a normal, intelligent person is a sin. Please read my post
    #52 in another thread. Allah says:
    یٰۤاَیُّہَا الَّذِیۡنَ اٰمَنُوۡا لَا تَاۡکُلُوۡۤا اَمۡوَالَکُمۡ بَیۡنَکُمۡ بِالۡبَاطِلِ اِلَّاۤ اَنۡ تَکُوۡنَ تِجَارَۃً عَنۡ تَرَاضٍ مِّنۡکُمۡ ۟ وَ لَا تَقۡتُلُوۡۤا اَنۡفُسَکُمۡ ؕ اِنَّ اللّٰہَ کَانَ بِکُمۡ رَحِیۡمًا ﴿۳۰﴾
    O ye who believe! devour not your property among yourselves by unlawful means, except that you earn by trade with mutual consent. And kill not yourselves. Surely, Allah is Merciful to you.
    The Holy Quran - Chapter: 4: An-Nisa'

    Muslim scholars and clerics consider suicide forbidden, including suicide bombing.[19][20][21][22][23][24]
    The prohibition of suicide has also been recorded in statements of hadith (sayings of Muhammad); for example:
    Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "He who commits suicide by throttling shall keep on throttling himself in the Hell Fire (forever) and he who commits suicide by stabbing himself shall keep on stabbing himself in the Hell-Fire."
    — Sahih al-Bukhari, 2:23:446
    Religious views on suicide - Wikipedia

    Regards
     
  12. England my lionheart

    England my lionheart Rockerjahili Rebel
    Premium Member It's My Birthday!

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    19,316
    Ratings:
    +4,397
    Religion:
    Atheist
    We're all entitled to an opinion,that's their opinion not mine.
     
  13. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    45,932
    Ratings:
    +20,708
    Religion:
    Philosophical Buddhism
    Sounds like suicide by Roman like suicide by cops.

    Jesus Christ: Suicide By Cop
     
  14. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2012
    Messages:
    36,097
    Ratings:
    +16,324
    Religion:
    liber-scripta grim Christian
    The OP is what I am talking about.
     
  15. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    45,932
    Ratings:
    +20,708
    Religion:
    Philosophical Buddhism
    I made my own thread so as not to sidetrack the topic here.
     
Loading...