Is steak real? Does it matter?

[Sententia]

A matrix reference. This scene if your interested:
[youtube]Z7BuQFUhsRM[/youtube]
‪Agent Smith and Cypher‬‏ - YouTube

Even if steak is real, can we only perceive it through our brains?

If you can only interact with the outside world via your senses and your senses interact with your brain by generating signals or proxies of what is actually happening then how real is the outside world and how much does it matter.

Your brain could be interpreting the incoming signals all wrong... And by wrong I mean in a way that conceptually makes sense to you and that is useful but may not be representative of what actually is.

Then again what does it mean to be real if it doesn't mean real in the sense of how we usually see things?

Seeing may be believing but seeing and believing don't mean a whole lot do they?

What would it mean to see things as they actually are? At what speed of time? At what wavelength of light?

If such a device as the matrix were real would you prefer to live there or here? (Is there a difference?)

 

[freethinker44]

Even if steak is real, can we only perceive it through our brains?

Is there another option? What else would we use to perceive something?

 

[Sententia]

Is there another option? What else would we use to perceive something?

Thats sort of my point. New science seems to disregard what we see or feel and is going after something that seems very abstract.

Its not all that odd to a magician. A magician is showing your senses A and making you experience A while doing B. In some cases the magician is not even aware of why his trick works and if she watches a video of him performing the trick then she fools herself. (Mixing up the sexes to avoid the whole him or her / she or he and I think you get it)

Ever tried this btw?
Taste testing without your sense of smell - Fun Science Experiments for Kids

 

[bobhikes]

A matrix reference. This scene if your interested:
[youtube]Z7BuQFUhsRM[/youtube]
‪Agent Smith and Cypher‬‏ - YouTube

Even if steak is real, can we only perceive it through our brains?

If you can only interact with the outside world via your senses and your senses interact with your brain by generating signals or proxies of what is actually happening then how real is the outside world and how much does it matter.

Your brain could be interpreting the incoming signals all wrong... And by wrong I mean in a way that conceptually makes sense to you and that is useful but may not be representative of what actually is.

If such a device as the matrix were real would you prefer to live there or here? (Is there a difference?)

The difference is the matrix was flawed, you could wake up from it. You could see through the illusion. I don't believe anyone will ever be able to make a matrix without flaws.

The other problems, who runs the matrix, who decides if we die or is it random(car crash) who insures we procreate.

In the real world I can decide my fate can you have the same option in the matrix.

 

[Erebus]

There's a hell of a lot of the world beyond our minds we don't/can't experience anyway. A classic example would be certain frequencies of sound. I strongly suspect that our perspective would be radically different were we capable of seeing reality as it is beyond the limits of our ability to process. What would the world seem like if we were able to notice each component atom creating our surroundings?

What counts as reality is probably an unanswerable question. Taking solipsism out of the equation we know that different people will potentially interpret the same event in radically different ways. This would suggest that reality is either at least partly subjective or that humans don't always perceive objective reality.

To understand what reality is, to what extent it is subjective/objective and what to do with that knowledge is the aim of the genius, magician and lunatic

 

[Gjallarhorn]

So, there is no reason to care if the steak is real or not...but what if you were given the opportunity to know the difference?

 

[nocturnalavalonian]

There may be matter there corresponding to the steak, but the steak as a steak exists only in one's head. It's really just a non-discontinuous random scattering of particles, which are themselves only mathematical models. The actual nature of the things themselves are unknowable.

 

[Thief]

How about....

This life IS the matrix.....

and you are about to die...and wake up into 'reality'.

 

[bobhikes]

How about....

This life IS the matrix.....

and you are about to die...and wake up into 'reality'.

Don't hold your breath.:no: Wait, maybe you did and it was a little to long.:sad4:

 

[839311]

If such a device as the matrix were real would you prefer to live there or here? (Is there a difference?)

I'd probably prefer to live there, but it would depend on the circumstances. If there was peace and security and not much to do, Id probably prefer to live in the matrix if I could create and enter my own programs, or exceptional programs designed by others, something along the lines of paradise. If there was war or insecurity or there was just a lot to be done, Id prefer to be active in the real world because there would be important work to do. I would probably still prefer the matrix, and I would definetly prefer it if other people could enter the same program.

But, yeah, what is real? What is the difference between being in the matrix and the 'real' world? I think both would be just as real. Consider, also, that even when you leave the matrix and enter the 'real' world, how could you be sure that you aren't still in a simulation? I think the possibility is always there. We could never be certain that we aren't in a simulation.

 

[sauloftardis]

hunger creates its own reality, in which only the animus is validated.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

The difference is the matrix was flawed, you could wake up from it. You could see through the illusion. I don't believe anyone will ever be able to make a matrix without flaws.

As an Ultra-Matrix Lover I will disagree

You couldn't wake up from it because your mind is not ready yet, you are not willing to let yourself out. It's kind of like a symbolism of Freewill. Morpheus explained this to Neo in the scene before the Woman in the Red Dress.

The other problems, who runs the matrix, who decides if we die or is it random(car crash) who insures we procreate.

The Architect does.

Here is some info from him:

The dignified, white-suited, and white-bearded creator of the Matrix. A nonhuman figure of vast intelligence, the Architect cannot completely hide either his slight disgust for the weaknesses of humanity or his intense interest in investigating its behavioral patterns. He is so powerful that the mere clicking of a pen completely transforms the wall of monitors behind Neo in his room. As the creator of the Matrix, he strikes a Godlike figure, but the Architect operates on a different plane of morality. In Gnostic theology, Satan, rather than God, created the world and formed its sufferings and burdens to shackle humanity. Since the Architect provokes the coming Armageddon, he likely represents the Gnostic Satan instead of God.

From http://www.sparknotes.com/film/matrix/characters.html

In the real world I can decide my fate can you have the same option in the matrix.

Not sure about this one, it is either I do not understand what your asking by the way you word it (not your fault, just my brain doesn't read things correctly sometimes), or that it wasn't depicted in the movie.

If you want my opinion out of what I personally got out of the film, and if you are asking if the people in the Matrix have free choice, I would say they do, but free will on the other hand they do not.

 

[Acim]

A matrix reference. This scene if your interested:

Great scene from a great flick.

Even if steak is real, can we only perceive it through our brains?

Considering we can't perceive our own brains, I think answer is, how you say, self evident.

If you can only interact with the outside world via your senses and your senses interact with your brain by generating signals or proxies of what is actually happening then how real is the outside world and how much does it matter.

Agreed. Nicely stated.

Your brain could be interpreting the incoming signals all wrong... And by wrong I mean in a way that conceptually makes sense to you and that is useful but may not be representative of what actually is.

:yes:

Then again what does it mean to be real if it doesn't mean real in the sense of how we usually see things?

What do you think?

Seeing may be believing but seeing and believing don't mean a whole lot do they?

It's all relative.

What would it mean to see things as they actually are? At what speed of time? At what wavelength of light?

[youtube]QaBvDKrPdZY[/youtube]
[youtube]

If such a device as the matrix were real would you prefer to live there or here? (Is there a difference?)

Here.
Now.

 

[Benhamine]

There may be matter there corresponding to the steak, but the steak as a steak exists only in one's head. It's really just a non-discontinuous random scattering of particles, which are themselves only mathematical models. The actual nature of the things themselves are unknowable.

I love it! This is what I think is so beautiful about the world. It's all just a vat of atoms forming mathematical patterns within it and our brains interpret the messages our senses are sending to it and make us think that there is actually something separate from that vat of atoms that is you, me, all. I love thinking about all the gases that surround us, imagining it as if I'm submerged in an ocean. How a fish probably senses it's surroundings very similarly to how we sense ours, unable to notice the stuff all around us, invisible, seemingly undetectable. It's quite astonishing to me

-Benhamine

 

[bobhikes]

As an Ultra-Matrix Lover I will disagree

You couldn't wake up from it because your mind is not ready yet, you are not willing to let yourself out. It's kind of like a symbolism of Freewill. Morpheus explained this to Neo in the scene before the Woman in the Red Dress.



The Architect does.

Here is some info from him:





Not sure about this one, it is either I do not understand what your asking by the way you word it (not your fault, just my brain doesn't read things correctly sometimes), or that it wasn't depicted in the movie.

If you want my opinion out of what I personally got out of the film, and if you are asking if the people in the Matrix have free choice, I would say they do, but free will on the other hand they do not.

I too am a matrix fan. The matrix movie's I saw the matrix was flawed, dejvue, Flying neil, and men that could move faster than superman, kids that could manipulate material objects. When I see any of this in this world then I'll agree this could be a matrix.

The architect only maintains the matrix(computer program). I was concerned with your body and it needs, also reproduction. Being that you are living in a computer program unless they rig something up you could have all the sex you want and no one gets pregnant.

When I talk about dying. Someone is maintaining the program. Why let people die. There body would still be fine. Wake them up on death to the real world I guess. For that matter why let people suffer or are they really suffering its all in their heads.

 

[Benhamine]

I too am a matrix fan. The matrix movie's I saw the matrix was flawed, dejvue, Flying neil, and men that could move faster than superman, kids that could manipulate material objects. When I see any of this in this world then I'll agree this could be a matrix.

The architect only maintains the matrix(computer program). I was concerned with your body and it needs, also reproduction. Being that you are living in a computer program unless they rig something up you could have all the sex you want and no one gets pregnant.

When I talk about dying. Someone is maintaining the program. Why let people die. There body would still be fine. Wake them up on death to the real world I guess. For that matter why let people suffer or are they really suffering its all in their heads.

I thought they explained that in the movies. They said people rejected the perfect world they made because it wasn't like the real world...which kind of didn't make sense since they wouldn't know what the real world was like if they'd lived in the Matrix their whole lives but hey....it's a movie lol

-Benhamine

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I thought they explained that in the movies. They said people rejected the perfect world they made because it wasn't like the real world...which kind of didn't make sense since they wouldn't know what the real world was like if they'd lived in the Matrix their whole lives but hey....it's a movie lol

-Benhamine

They rejected the perfect world of the Matrix because human beings cannot accept, and do not want, a pefect world. This is how it was explained by Agent Smith.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Every moment we experience has already happened, since it takes time to both gather and process information. Thus each moment is already a memory.

Still, the steak is as real as anything else in the universe. Why should a mental process be any less real than anything else?

 

[PolyHedral]

Yes. No.

 

[Orias]

Even if steak is real, can we only perceive it through our brains?

Unless you want to try and overstep human physiology, then yea.

If you can only interact with the outside world via your senses and your senses interact with your brain by generating signals or proxies of what is actually happening then how real is the outside world and how much does it matter.

Ah good ol' subjectiveness. Based off what I have gained from the topic, delusion is a common pursuit, people thinking they will get this or that for doing this or that. The strength varies in terms of what people believe, how much they believe, and how far they are willing to go to defend it.

Unless our senses aren't real, then that would make what we are sensing not real as well, which would ultimately render our senses useless. But really that's just asinine, I would like to see someone try and live/survive without all of their senses (without competent guidance).

Your brain could be interpreting the incoming signals all wrong... And by wrong I mean in a way that conceptually makes sense to you and that is useful but may not be representative of what actually is.

People don't generally care for what it is, they search for what they want. So in Aspect what actually is, is what others want you to believe in. Makes the "community" far more powerful.

Then again what does it mean to be real if it doesn't mean real in the sense of how we usually see things?

Nothing, its just a term used to throw people off their rocker, make them question themselves, and distract people from the real life events that occur and could be potentially devastating to the human race.

Seeing may be believing but seeing and believing don't mean a whole lot do they?

Depends on who you talk to, a person who is devoted to living a good "after life" would usually have a completely different view point than a person who just doesn't care.

Like the other senses, sight can easily be manipulated.

What would it mean to see things as they actually are? At what speed of time? At what wavelength of light?

To see through the unnecessary psychological and manipulative ties we have to the the labels and symbols around us. We live in a world of language and symbols, and words.

If such a device as the matrix were real would you prefer to live there or here? (Is there a difference?)

There's already a device like it, its just not so fantastical and obvious to others.

The Mind is the only Gateway to realization. Realizing and/or creating the Self is something that has been taught long before the Matrix ever arrived. Lets not forget, a matrix is essentially a womb, where something is conceived of, originates from, and is brought forth by.

If you look around you, most of the physical matter you see was brought forth by us, all the mental matter (labels, words, descriptions, etc etc) was brought forth by us.

We already live in the Matrix, we just don't have enough faith within ourselves