Is non-procreative sex immoral?

[cvipertooth]

Cannot that story be read more than 1 way?

no, because the first baptist church of sticksville said that their interpretation is the only true interpretation :tsk:

With the emphasis on the first part of Jesus` words in 11 ?

“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”

It just doesn`t seem to me that Jesus`s judgement was reliant upon her leaving her life of sin.
He had made the decision before he could know whether she had or not.

This is also part of the reason I believe it is not neccessary to ask for forgiveness for every single sin or your going to hell. Jesus died once, so we ask for forgiveness once. Also, if our salvation was dependent on the deeds we do there would have been no purpose for Christ's death.

 

[Sunstone]

What about the notion that sex is immoral when no chance of conception is possible?

 

[Scott1]

because aldutery causes unrest in families

That's a rather unfounded statement..... some might say that couples would get along better if there was a bit more "variety".... I am not looking for your opinion, but a Biblical verification of your beliefs.

And if god intended sex to not be pleasurable and only serve for reproductive purposes, why did he allow it to be pleasurable?

Are you sure you are a Christian? Sin is God's greatest grace...... I would say that ALL sin in pleasurable..... that's why it's so hard not to sin...... if it was easy, maybe Jesus could have avoided all that getting whipped and nailed to a cross stuff.....

no, because the first baptist church of sticksville said that their interpretation is the only true interpretation :tsk:

What kind of ignorant blather is this? Let me actually answer the question.

It just doesn`t seem to me that Jesus`s judgement was reliant upon her leaving her life of sin.
He had made the decision before he could know whether she had or not.

In my opinion, Christ made the decision to forgive her and not to condemn her before she even admitted to her sins..... that's kinda his way ..... but, to not condemn someone for their ignorance is a bit different than condemning someone who knowingly disobeys the words of Christ.

Peace,
Scott

 

[Scott1]

What about the notion that sex is immoral when no chance of conception is possible?

If there is no chance because of a personal choice, that's one thing...... but God did not give my wife a choice (her woman parts broke ) and I don't think God would deem our sex as immoral....... he probably laughs at the frustrated look on my wife's face, but I'm sure there is no sin there!

Scott

 

[cvipertooth]

That's a rather unfounded statement..... some might say that couples would get along better if there was a bit more "variety".... I am not looking for your opinion, but a Biblical verification of your beliefs.

I'm sorry, I made a blanket statement. In most cases, adultery breaks families apart. This is not my opinion, divorces really do happen, and children as well as the adults themselves often times undergo emotional damage.

Are you sure you are a Christian?

Yes, i'm fairly sure i'm a Christian. Are you?

Sin is God's greatest grace...... I would say that ALL sin in pleasurable..... that's why it's so hard not to sin...... if it was easy, maybe Jesus could have avoided all that getting whipped and nailed to a cross stuff.....

Did I miss something? because nothing I have said in this thread has implied that it is ok to sin. Unless your implying that sex itself is a sin. I think you are once again gettin non-procreative sex confused with adultery or fornication

What kind of ignorant blather is this? Let me actually answer the question.

I didnt really think that anyone would take that response seriously. I was only trying to paint the picture of the christian faith today. Obviously it is ok to interpret the Bible in different ways or else there wouldnt be baptists or methodists or catholics or presbyterians or Jehovah's Witnesses....blah blah blah. The Bible is up for different interpretations regardless of what the church of so-and-so believes

 

[Scott1]

cvipertooth,
You still haven't answered the question with Scripture.

I'm sorry, I made a blanket statement. In most cases, adultery breaks families apart. This is not my opinion, divorces really do happen, and children as well as the adults themselves often times undergo emotional damage.

And I can tell you several that have wonderful lives because of adultery.....

.... still not Scripture, just your opinion.

Did I miss something? because nothing I have said in this thread has implied that it is ok to sin. Unless your implying that sex itself is a sin. I think you are once again gettin non-procreative sex confused with adultery or fornication

You asked why God would make sex pleasurable if it was a sin.... and I answered you. No, sex itself is not a sin..... but if you think most sins are not a lot of fun for the sinner(gluttony, greed, stealing....etc) and don't know why.....then I can't help you.

Obviously it is ok to interpret the Bible in different ways or else there wouldnt be baptists or methodists or catholics or presbyterians or Jehovah's Witnesses....blah blah blah.

You're saying that to the wrong guy..... it's not ok.... not for one second.... one of the many reasons I became a Catholic.

Scott

 

[Sunstone]

Is there any truth to the belief that sex reduces us to the same level as other animals, and that all that redeems us from this reduction is the use of sex for procreation? Or is that a completely inane belief (regardless of how popular it is in certain quarters)?

 

[cvipertooth]

cvipertooth,
You still haven't answered the question with Scripture.
And I can tell you several that have wonderful lives because of adultery.....

.... still not Scripture, just your opinion.

Thats because there is no scripture of the repercussions of adultery, only that it is wrong. I was only reflecting on past experiences with couples that divorced because of adultery and trying to come up with a reason why god said it was wrong. and thats what i came up with. There is also no scripture that has anything to do with non-procreative sex.

You asked why God would make sex pleasurable if it was a sin....

no i didnt.

if god intended sex to not be pleasurable and only serve for reproductive purposes, why did he allow it to be pleasurable?

Nothing about sinning in there...

The fact that sex is pleasurable in itself implies that there is another purpose for having sex than strictly reproduction.

and I answered you. No, sex itself is not a sin..... but if you think most sins are not a lot of fun for the sinner(gluttony, greed, stealing....etc) and don't know why.....then I can't help you.

Yes, you did answer me, although I dont think you understood the question. non-procreative sex is not immoral or a sin and there is no biblical basis to think otherwise. This has nothing to do with adultery or fornication or any other sin.

You're saying that to the wrong guy..... it's not ok.... not for one second.... one of the many reasons I became a Catholic.

Hmm.....so what happens to all of us protestant guys? we get cast into the lake of fire too? God isn't seeming too benevolent..........

 

[cvipertooth]

Is there any truth to the belief that sex reduces us to the same level as other animals, and that all that redeems us from this reduction is the use of sex for procreation? Or is that a completely inane belief (regardless of how popular it is in certain quarters)?

Must not be too popular ive never heard of it. In my opinion, that is not the case. But there again......my opinion.

 

[Scott1]

There is also no scripture that has anything to do with non-procreative sex.

Sure there is..... and I quoted it for you..... you are using your human reasoning based on your personal experiences to mold it to your liking.... Jesus had a reason to "decide" adultery was a sin and it had nothing to do with your past experiences with couples.

The fact that sex is pleasurable in itself implies that there is another purpose for having sex than strictly reproduction.

Greed is pleasurable. Some find murder pleasureable...... should I go on? Again, your assumptions have no foundation in Christian history.

Hmm.....so what happens to all of us protestant guys? we get cast into the lake of fire too? God isn't seeming too benevolent..........

Never said or implied that..... let's try to stick with what I write and not make personal attacks based on what you think I mean.

 

[linwood]

Is there any truth to the belief that sex reduces us to the same level as other animals, and that all that redeems us from this reduction is the use of sex for procreation? Or is that a completely inane belief (regardless of how popular it is in certain quarters)?

I`ve heard it(Or less lucid versions of it).

I believe it to be inane.

 

[linwood]

..so what happens to all of us protestant guys? we get cast into the lake of fire too? God isn't seeming too benevolent.....

Now you know how I feel.

 

[Scott1]

Now you know how I feel.

I said it to cvipertooth, now for you:
Never said or implied that..... let's try to stick with what I write and not make personal attacks based on what you think I mean.

 

[linwood]

I said it to cvipertooth, now for you:
Never said or implied that..... let's try to stick with what I write and not make personal attacks based on what you think I mean.

Scott,

I was being flippant.
The statement was not intended as an attack nor was it directed at you.

 

[cvipertooth]

I said it to cvipertooth, now for you:
Never said or implied that..... let's try to stick with what I write and not make personal attacks based on what you think I mean.

Not attackin, only making an assumption that your opinion is that my interpretation of the Bible is incorrect, therefore implying my eternal damnation.

 

[Scott1]

linwood,

I'm glad.... you know me well enough to know I would never say something like that to you or any non-Catholic/Christian.

On the other hand......... cvipertooth,
You don't seem to know me at all, and your assumption that I would somehow imply your eternal damnation shows more about your state of mind than anything else you have written.
I would read your signature line again...... and then again..... before assuming anything like that about me or any other poster.

It is a persons faith in Christ as the sole source of their salvation that saves.... not a persons ability to interpret Scripture.

God bless,
Scott

 

[Sunstone]

If someone were to argue that non-procreative sex is immoral, would they logically be arguing that bonding is immoral, since bonding is among the biological purposes of non-procreative sex?

 

[Scott1]

If someone were to argue that non-procreative sex is immoral, would they logically be arguing that bonding is immoral, since bonding is among the biological purposes of non-procreative sex?

You are making the incorrect assumption (in my opinon) that bonding has anything to do with non-procreative sex.

Pair bonds, in my limited knowledge of early human history, came about mainly for protection (the male being physically stronger) and procreation.

 

[cvipertooth]

linwood,

I'm glad.... you know me well enough to know I would never say something like that to you or any non-Catholic/Christian.

On the other hand......... cvipertooth,
You don't seem to know me at all, and your assumption that I would somehow imply your eternal damnation shows more about your state of mind than anything else you have written.
I would read your signature line again...... and then again..... before assuming anything like that about me or any other poster.

It is a persons faith in Christ as the sole source of their salvation that saves.... not a persons ability to interpret Scripture.

God bless,
Scott

Forgive me for making an incorrect assumption. As you rightfully pointed out, I went against my signature by getting hot-headed. If you could, explain to me what you mean by the Bible cannot be interpreted differently. I also apologize for assuming that you believe that a wrong interpretation of the Bible automatically sends them to hell. please elaborate so I can better understand

 

[painted wolf]

my opinion.. No.

How can you know that any particular sexual encounter will be 'productive'?
Are you sinning if you simply don't get pregnant every time you have sex?

Besides the fun is in the attempt.

wa:do