Is Mysticism possible in an Atheistic worldview

[Desert Snake]

I presented something from Einstein. Wasn't that good enough? Would like more non-theists?

Lets start with these:

• Einstein
• Schroedinger
• Heisenberg
• Bohr
• Eddington
• Pauli
• de Broglie
• Jeans
• Planck

All of these men were modern physicists and non approached mysticism as religionists. I don't believe any of them were traditional theists, and many if not all embraced as atheist. Yet all of them were mystics of one sort or another! There you go. Good enough?

No actually it isn't good enough. In fact it's verging on having no meaning. We clearly aren't going to come to an agreement or even basic understanding between us,
gdday.

 

[Vouthon]

No actually it isn't good enough. In fact it's verging on having no meaning. We clearly aren't going to come to an agreement or even basic understanding between us,
gdday.

Then how do you account for the case of Barbara Ehrenreich?

Barbara Ehrenreich: 'Was that you, God?' | Books | The Guardian

Barbara Ehrenreich is proud to call herself an atheist. But in her latest book Living With A Wild God she recalls how more than 50 years ago she came face to face with something vast, terrifying and unknowable. Could she still call herself a non-believer?

She states explicitly:

Barbara Ehrenreich Interview on Living With a Wild God | New Republic

I am an atheist...I am insistent on atheist. If we are talking about a monotheistic, benevolent God, I know there is no such thing...Then when I was 17, I had an experience that I later learned could be called a “mystical experience.” It was almost violent. No faces, voices, nothing like that. It is like the world burst and flamed into life all around me. That is not a great image, but it is as good as I will ever do...I am fascinated by how religions often center on mystical experience, and in the Old Testament tradition you find flames, the burning bush. I was beginning to find that other people had experienced such things...I remain a scientific rationalist. I want science to look at these odder phenomena, and not rule out the possibility of mystical experiences with another kind of mind.

A self-professed atheist and scientific rationalist who has had mystical experiences?

 

[Windwalker]

No actually it isn't good enough. In fact it's verging on having no meaning.

Why? You make this statement and makes no sense in light of the fact that none of these people were theists, and yet all were mystics? How does that have no meaning to this discussion, pray tell me. Please be specific, if your challenge is to be taken seriously by anyone.

We clearly aren't going to come to an agreement or even basic understanding between us,
gdday.

Not for lack of reasoned arguments on my part, which you are failing to address and avoiding answering by cliches like "clearly we aren't going to come to an agreement." Clearly. You're not looking at or addressing the points presented to you. Please tell all of us how what I presented is meaningless. I'm stupefied at the moment as to how it's not. I'm also amazed at how the other two so-called rationalists never rationally addressed any of my points with intelligent responses. I guess they just have their opinions, and that's supposed to be respected? I expect better than this.

 

[Windwalker]

A self-professed atheist and scientific rationalist who has had mystical experiences?

Clearly your example isn't meaningless, and in fact shoots a bullet straight through these challenges that mystics cannot be atheists! In fact, it just sparked a realization in me as I read that. I was not a believer in God, an "atheist" in the sense God was not part of my understanding of myself or the world or reality. And like her, I was in my late teens, 18 to be exact, when I had what was a profound, life changing mystical experience! So add me to that list!

In fact her description easily matches my own I've written elsewhere. She says,

"Then when I was 17, I had an experience that I later learned could be called a “mystical experience.” It was almost violent. No faces, voices, nothing like that. It is like the world burst and flamed into life all around me. "​

And my account of my own experience recorded elsewhere about 8 years ago goes,

"Suddenly, without any warning or indication, the entire Universe opened to me before my eyes, as if a great curtain opened in an instant. I suddenly saw for the first time in my life - color. The world was full of color, with vibrant greens and blues everywhere! The World was full of light and love and color, and permeated everything as a sort of living joy that surrounded me, moved through me, and began flowing out of the most unimaginably deepest part of my being out into the world in a sort of song, as can only be described as utter, living love.

I saw people walking by me, and rather than feeling darkness and shame in my heart and averting my eyes away as in my past, instead I felt pure love and joy. No thoughts of darkness were in me anywhere at that moment, and I felt truly alive for the first time in my life."​

I was not a theist when that happened! So there. End of argument. Anyone, theist or atheist can and do have mystical experiences.

Again, I am stupefied by what appears to be a willful ignorance, a deliberate unwillingness to listen to all these facts that countless people are presenting. Why? Fear of opening themselves to what can be called "religious" feelings, because they are just breaking free of fundamentalist dogmas and it sounds "too close to home" for one now professing atheism to get away from religion? "No atheist would do that!! Atheists are rational!". Or so it's imagined that has anything to do with this.

 

[Vouthon]

"Suddenly, without any warning or indication, the entire Universe opened to me before my eyes, as if a great curtain opened in an instant. I suddenly saw for the first time in my life - color. The world was full of color, with vibrant greens and blues everywhere! The World was full of light and love and color, and permeated everything as a sort of living joy that surrounded me, moved through me, and began flowing out of the most unimaginably deepest part of my being out into the world in a sort of song, as can only be described as utter, living love.

I saw people walking by me, and rather than feeling darkness and shame in my heart and averting my eyes away as in my past, instead I felt pure love and joy. No thoughts of darkness were in me anywhere at that moment, and I felt truly alive for the first time in my life."​

This is beautiful Windwalker, truly beautiful. I am thankful that you have chosen to share it with us :clap

Your experience reminds me of that of the Anglican mystic Thomas Traherne:

"...You never enjoy the world aright till every morning you awake in Heaven; see yourself in your Father’s Palace, and look upon the earth and air as celestial joys, having such reverend esteem of all, as if you were among the Angels. The bride of a monarch, in her husband’s chamber, hath no such causes of delight as you. You never enjoy the world aright, till the Sea itself floweth in your veins, till you are clothed with the heavens, and crowned with the stars: and perceive yourself to be the sole heir of the whole world and more than so, because men are in it who are every one sole heirs as well as you. Till you can sing and rejoice and delight in God, as misers do in gold, and Kings in sceptres, you never enjoy the world....The world is a mirror of infinite beauty, yet no man sees it. It is a Temple of Majesty, yet no man regards it. It is a region of Light and Peace, did not man disquiet it. It is the Paradise of God..."

- Thomas Traherne (1636 – 1674), Anglican mystic

 

[Orbit]

The thing about mysticism is that it involves an actual experience. It's not an intellectually held position, as atheism is. It is direct unmediated experience of oneness with God, or the Ground of Being if you prefer. Unless an atheist cultivates those practices, like meditation, that lead to the mystic experience, I can't see how an atheist could be a mystic.

I am an atheist mystic, but I practice non-theistic meditation as a way of connecting with the divine. I have a pantheistic understanding of what the divine is, combined with the Hindu idea of connection to Brahman.

I'd be curious to hear how other atheists conceptualize their mysticism.

 

[Sapiens]

I am definitely an atheist, as Dawkins would describe a 6.9 on a scale of 7. I don't use the word mystical because the alternate meanings are at odds with each other:

1. of or relating to mystics or religious mysticism. "the mystical experience"

2. inspiring a sense of spiritual mystery, awe, and fascination. "the mystical forces of nature"

Meaning one has religious overtones while meaning two is the way in which I would be using it, specifically "inspiring a sense of awe, and fascination."