Is Multiculturalism really good for society?

[not nom]

You act like someone is dismissing that point. I am personally not dismissing that point. However, you have to consider centuries old indoctrination upon the hundreds of millions of people.

true, of course it will take time. I'd even say, people rarely change (much). the hope here as with many things lies in future generations. I think it's inevitable.. personally, I'm more encouraged more by people of different "races" getting along with each other without "race" being a factor at all, than discouraged by racism. maybe that's because I'm not at the receiving end of it - but still, consider how the world was 100 years ago?! millenia of racism cannot be fixed with a blog post indeed, but do you see a reason why the general trend of exchange should be reversed anytime soon, or ever?

 

[Father Heathen]

• One race
• One language
• One goal

Multiculturalism is hardly homogeneous.

 

[Songbird]

Off course you don't get it...google multiculturalism

Kid, I done did google it, study it, and know it before you ever posted a thread about it. And you didn't answer my question. What's your alternative suggestion to multiculturalism?

 

[not nom]

No matter how much we wish to be different from one another, we're not.

:yes:

 

[Madhuri]

Multiculturalism is a delusion projected by doubt, made tangible by the ignorant; a self righteous bias born of insecurity, and that's all it is.

No matter how much we wish to be different from one another, we're not.

Internally similar, externally different. But culture deals with the external. Multiculturalism is concerned with external differences. Those differences are real and not homogeneous.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Multiculturalism is a delusion projected by doubt, made tangible by the ignorant; a self righteous bias born of insecurity, and that's all it is.

No matter how much we wish to be different from one another, we're not.

Great - so I can construct a society built entirely on *my* wants, needs, and modes of expression, being safe in the knowledge that you don't need to be accommodated at all, right? After all, if we're really the same, I can rest assured that you like (or are supposed to like) all the same things that I do, right?

 

[not nom]

Great - so I can construct a society built entirely on *my* wants, needs, and modes of expression, being safe in the knowledge that you don't need to be accommodated at all, right? After all, if we're really the same, I can rest assured that you like (or are supposed to like) all the same things that I do, right?

heh. as if you were identical with anyone, even your closest friends and family. as if that was the point.

it's just a result of transport and communication.. which made huge leaps in very recent time, if you look at the timeline of the last hundreds of millenia. that doesn't mean everybody will become the same, just that there will be one community, the human tribe. doesn't matter much if that will take 5000 years to happen, that would still be "soon" in historic terms.

on the other hand, here's a quote I saved from slashdot a while ago:

They are creating a "breakaway" culture, who within decades will be the only ones with access to capital, to new technologies, to advanced health care. That's the ultimate effect of the dramatic increase in wealth disparity. Fifty years of this and they'll be as far ahead of the rest of us as the American settlers were of the Native Americans. When two cultures exist side-by-side and one is so far in advance of the other, it doesn't work out well for the ones on the bottom. We are seeing evolutionary branching based on wealth alone.

and also

See, capitalism is not fundamentally racist - it can exploit racism for its purposes, but racism isn't built into it. Capitalism basically wants people to be interchangeable cogs, and differences among them, such as on the basis of race, usually are not functional. I mean, they may be functional for a period, like if you want a super exploited workforce or something, but those situations are kind of anomalous.

Over the long term, you can expect capitalism to be anti-racist - just because it's anti-human. And race is in fact a human characteristic - there's no reason why it should be a negative characteristic, but it is a human characteristic. So therefore identifications based on race interfere with the basic ideal that people should be available just as consumers and producers, interchangeable cogs who will purchase all the junk that's produced - that's their ultimate function, and any other properties they might have are kind of irrelevant, and usually a nuisance.

so yeah, it's not automatic, it might require struggle actually.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

heh. as if you were identical with anyone, even your closest friends and family. as if that was the point.

Maybe I should've used some sort of smiley to indicate my sarcasm, but I don't think we're identical. That was my point.

I think that liberty and multiculturalism are the exact same thing. When we recognize, acknowledge and celebrate the unique characteristics of people, we call this "personal freedom". When we recognize, acknowledge and celebrate the unique characteristics of groups of people, we call this "multiculturalism". They're two sides of the same coin.

And it doesn't mean that people have to ghettoize themselves based on their cultural origin; beyond the level of individual expression (which is covered by "liberty" anyhow), multiculturalism is just about acknowledging the worth and value of expressions of all cultures: giving equal consideration to a South American dance school as a ballet when handing out grants, for instance. Or (as happened in Canada) a police force allowing a regulation turban as an alternative to the standard uniform hat. Or having as big a parade for Caribana as for St. Patrick's Day (which itself is an example of multiculturalism of an earlier age).

 

[tumbleweed41]

Again I ask,

What is "cultural identity"? How far back in ones ancestry does one have to go?

And and what is more important to maintain? Cultural, as in where ones ancestors are from, or the supposed "culture" as related to the pigment of ones skin?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Again I ask,

What is "cultural identity"? How far back in ones ancestry does one have to go?

And and what is more important to maintain? Cultural, as in where ones ancestors are from, or the supposed "culture" as related to the pigment of ones skin?

I don't think it's either. Sure, heritage is a part of it and every culture will have been influenced by its history, but culture is a living, changing thing. A static culture is a dead culture.

 

[not nom]

Maybe I should've used some sort of smiley to indicate my sarcasm, but I don't think we're identical. That was my point.

we are not identical, but for lack of a better word, we are the same, contrary to what racism or nationalism or even some forms of religion would have people believe. it's not like anyone said people are identical, I think you just took that a bit too literally. it's just that we're all the same

 

[not nom]

What is "cultural identity"? How far back in ones ancestry does one have to go?

when I came across the fact that ernst moritz arndt (who seems to have happily combined theology/antisemitism, nationalism/racism/biology and poetry, and was cherished lots by the nazis) is among my ancestors, I read a bit of his stuff, then thought "bah **** this" -- and haven't been interested in my ancestors much since. (not that I was before that, but now I have an excuse)

my parents are/were cool, that's good enough for me. grandgrandparents I never met might as well be someone else's grandgrandparents. they say one can only choose friends, not family, and that blood is thicker than water. I say bollocks to that

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

we are not identical, but for lack of a better word, we are the same, contrary to what racism or nationalism or even some forms of religion would have people believe. it's not like anyone said people are identical, I think you just took that a bit too literally. it's just that we're all the same

I took Manfred's argument to be saying that people are similar enough that everyone should be able to work with a one-size-fits-all culture. I'm just pointing out the folly in assuming (as I think most people do who put forward these sorts of arguments) that their culture would be the one that everyone else is fitting into. My culture is just as good as any other and my family tree has been in North America since before the American Revolution, so if we're going to play the game where one group of people gets to decide everyone else's culture for them, I think I have a better claim than most to be one of the people who gets to decide what that culture should be.

Of course, most of the people arguing against multiculturalism probably wouldn't like my "one culture" very much, but too bad - if they ask for it, they can't complain when they get it.

 

[not nom]

I took Manfred's argument to be saying that people are similar enough that everyone should be able to work with a one-size-fits-all culture.

in my way of thinking, when one culture takes influences from several others, or several cultures merge, it forms a new one. it's not a shoe! if it's too big, no biggie the problem is when it's too small.

but yes, not all can play. the caste system, and nazis, and many other things, including fundamentalist religion, they're right out -- there is no way to integrate everything with everything. but most stuff? ez pz I say, just don't segregate kids from each other and the rest happens by itself

 

[gnomon]

I find multiculturalism to be a good thing as long as there is an overarching cultural belief in the society that can hold it together. Something like the rule of law. Through this many cultures can thrive in one nation but the rule of law recognizes a limit on cultural practices to maintain an established basic concept such as that of human rights. I think this is something the U.S. has achieved fairly well over the last few decades.

 

[not nom]

There will be no my wants, needs and modes of expression to contend with anymore.

hey wait a second, are you talking about the freedom from ego or the borg?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Mexican stores cater to Mexicans and nobody thinks its ethnically exclusive. If I made a store that said "Black People's SuperMarket" people would find it offensive. In L.A its a bit more discrete. A lot of times owners will name their stores "Azteca Supermarket." The title, which relates to Mexican ancestry, is indeed meant to be exclusive

It is? I've never let such things keep me from eating at an Indian restaurant, or Chinese, or Mexican places. There is even nothing that prevents a white person from entering a store in the middle of the black part of town.
Myself I prefer playing jazz bass guitars, jazz once being considered very strongly black culture, I love the spiciness of Thai food, manga and anime from Japan, many bands I listen to come from many parts of the world, the beauty of ancient Greek architect, and so many things that come from other cultures that life would be such a huge bore without them. Even large parts of math and science come from other cultures. My college major of psychology even comes from Europe during a very different time.
And in reality America has always been a place of multiculturalism. Actually had it not been for the French part of the culture America would not have won the Revolutionary War. American troops also used many Native techniques to help them in battle.

 

[Nooj]

What does 'good for society' mean?

 

[dawny0826]

Personally I am against a multicultural society. Although various ethnic/religious cultures exist, I believe catering to various cultures also in a way condones exclusivity. However I am curious what others think.


*****Disclaimer****

I take the position as a United States citizen and specifically referring to U.S. society since we are the most diverse nation

I'm of the opinion that American society is multicultural, and therefore diversity should be embraced and celebrated...tolerance encouraged and exclusivity not brought to light in a manner that screams political correctness but normality as we are a diverse nation.

 

[Averroes]

It is? I've never let such things keep me from eating at an Indian restaurant, or Chinese, or Mexican places. There is even nothing that prevents a white person from entering a store in the middle of the black part of town.
Myself I prefer playing jazz bass guitars, jazz once being considered very strongly black culture, I love the spiciness of Thai food, manga and anime from Japan, many bands I listen to come from many parts of the world, the beauty of ancient Greek architect, and so many things that come from other cultures that life would be such a huge bore without them. Even large parts of math and science come from other cultures. My college major of psychology even comes from Europe during a very different time.
And in reality America has always been a place of multiculturalism. Actually had it not been for the French part of the culture America would not have won the Revolutionary War. American troops also used many Native techniques to help them in battle.

I don't understand how psychology got thrown in there with the discussion of resturants. Ok, steering clear from the resturant analogy my main point was that there are places which discretely appear to be exclusive and meant to attract a particular crowd of people. I also mentioned college as an element of exclusivity (e.g. fraternities)