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Is Jiva the same thing according to Ramanuja and Shankara?

Discussion in 'Hinduism DIR' started by Greg Levenski, Nov 12, 2018.

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  1. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium Resident Hermit
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    Not entirely accurate. Per Shankara's view of Advaita, jiva exists empirically in temporal reality.

    Vyāvahārika (vyavahara), or samvriti-saya,[115] consisting of the empirical or pragmatical reality. It is ever changing over time, thus empirically true at a given time and context but not metaphysically true. It is "our world of experience, the phenomenal world that we handle every day when we are awake". It is the level in which both jiva (living creatures or individual souls) and Iswara are true; here, the material world is also true but this is incomplete reality and is sublatable.[114][116]

    Advaita Vedanta - Wikipedia
     
  2. shivsomashekhar

    shivsomashekhar Gaudapada, Parmenides

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    I have stayed out of this discussion because a desire was expressed to keep it among "true Advaitins". But these posts are not directly part of the discussion and hence....

    If Jivas are not real, who is talking to whom, here?

    If the real world is not metaphysically true, then there is something outside our perceived universe - which must be metaphysically true. In this other realm, is there an awareness of the existence our world? If so, isn't our world real too?
     
  3. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium Resident Hermit
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    Empirical/pragmatic/temporal reality is true to the jiva. Let's make the comparison for what you are calling awareness of existence on a smaller scale...

    Let's equate jiva to the dream self when one is asleep and dreaming, and the waking self to Iswara or Saguna Brahman. The experiences in the dream are real to the dream self but are a play in the mind of the waking self. So to answer your question, yes, Iswara or Saguna Brahman would be aware of temporal reality similarly to how the waking self would be aware of a dream.
     
  4. ajay0

    ajay0 Well-Known Member

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    In nondual perception, one still identifies forms without habitually labeling or categorising them, and responds appropriately.

    A man steeped in dualistic perception due to ego would see the other as a homosexual, christian, French, feminist, socialist and so on, and reacts with prejudiced belief sets corresponding to such labels.

    A man steeped in nondual perception would see the other without any labels, and responds intelligently than react out of belief sets.

    As stated many times earlier, Advaita deals with experiential understanding and not mere intellectual theorising, as thought cannot achieve holistic perception due to its dualistic structure, where the opposites complement each other, with one leading to the other.


    The enlightened one sees the unitary consciousness pervading the diversity of existence, and takes holistic action based on this perception.

    'It is true that God is even in the tiger, but we must not go and face the animal. So it is true that God dwells even in the most wicked, but it does not mean that we should associate with the wicked.' - Sri Ramakrishna
     
    #204 ajay0, Feb 16, 2019 at 10:46 AM
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2019 at 6:50 PM
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