Is Jesus God?

[james2ko]

The Bible teaches that Jesus is called God, the Lord Almighty, Israel’s King and Redeemer, the Rock, the First and Last, the Alpha and the Omega, and the Beginning and the End. These passages should remove any doubt that Jesus has always existed.

But if He was the Beginning, how could He have always existed? Eternity in the past cannot logically have a beginning. Your interpretation would also imply Christ would have an end.

edit: I do believe Christ was all those things. But none of those titles indicate He existed forever in the past or always existed. They actually imply quite the opposite.

 

[katiemygirl]

The old testament also calls God the Rock. Does that mean that Peter was also God.

Do you believe Jesus is the Rock of our salvation?

 

[katiemygirl]

Jesus is called "the first and the last." Jehovah God called Himself "the first and the last." (Isa. 41:4, 44:6).

 

[katiemygirl]

"But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Too little to be among the clans of Judah, From you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel. His goings forth are from long ago, From the days of eternity." (Micah 5:2)

 

[james2ko]

"But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Too little to be among the clans of Judah, From you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel. His goings forth are from long ago, From the days of eternity." (Micah 5:2)

I demonstrated in a previous post how "eternity" (olam) here is defined by BDB as eternity in the future and not eternity in the past. But only the ancient past. An indication Christ was created to live forever in the future, but His existence is not forever in the past, only the ancient past. Other scriptures explicitly tell us He was created (Isa. 43:10-11), thus proving He has not always existed. Young's Literal Translation more accurately reflects the term's definition by rendering the last phrase, "From the days of antiquity"

 

[moorea944]

There are 68 scriptures that call Jesus the Son of God but zero that say he is God.

I totally agree!

 

[moorea944]

I also look at books like Luke 1, where Mary is told by an angel what is going to happen to her. Nothing about a trinity or God was coming down to earth and being born inside of her, nothing about a pre-existence of her coming baby. Or 2 Sam 7 on what was told to David. Everything is the son of God and not God the son. We look at Jesus's life, we see his father in him. "I and my father are one". Jesus was doing God's will. God was working "through" His son. They are not co-equal or both Gods. Esp.... Jesus is not Yahweh.

 

[katiemygirl]

The NT writers clearly believed that the Lord Jesus Christ was the incarnation of YAHWEH.

YAHWEH

"Abraham planted a tamarisk tree in Beersheba and called there on the name of Yahweh, the Everlasting God." Genesis 21:33

"Into your hand I commit my spirit; you have redeemed me, O Yahweh, faithful God." Psalm 31:5

"And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of Yahweh shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, as Yahweh has said, and among the survivors shall be those whom Yahweh calls." Joel 2:32

JESUS

"And as they were stoning Stephen, he called out, ‘Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.’ And falling to his knees he cried out with a loud voice, ‘Lord, do not hold this sin against them.’ And when he had said this, he fell asleep.’" Acts 7:59-60

"Now there was a disciple at Damascus named Ananias. The Lord said to him in a vision, ‘Ananias.’ And he said, ‘Here I am, Lord.’ And the Lord said to him, ‘Rise and go to the street called Straight, and at the house of Judas look for a man of Tarsus named Saul, for behold, he is praying, and he has seen in a vision a man named Ananias come in and lay his hands on him so that he might regain his sight.’ But Ananias answered, ‘Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much evil he has done to your saints at Jerusalem. And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on your name’ ... So Ananias departed and entered the house. And laying his hands on him he said, ‘Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus who appeared to you on the road by which you came has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit’… And all who heard him were amazed and said, ‘Is not this the man who made havoc in Jerusalem of those who called upon this name? And has he not come here for this purpose, to bring them bound before the chief priests?’" Acts 9:10-14, 17, 21

"because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. For the Scripture says, ‘Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.’ For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. For ‘everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’" Romans 10:9-13

"To the church of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours:" 1 Corinthians 1:2

 

[moorea944]

The NT writers clearly believed that the Lord Jesus Christ was the incarnation of YAHWEH.

YAHWEH

"Abraham planted a tamarisk tree in Beersheba and called there on the name of Yahweh, the Everlasting God." Genesis 21:33

"Into your hand I commit my spirit; you have redeemed me, O Yahweh, faithful God." Psalm 31:5

"And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of Yahweh shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, as Yahweh has said, and among the survivors shall be those whom Yahweh calls." Joel 2:32

JESUS

"And as they were stoning Stephen, he called out, ‘Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.’ And falling to his knees he cried out with a loud voice, ‘Lord, do not hold this sin against them.’ And when he had said this, he fell asleep.’" Acts 7:59-60

"Now there was a disciple at Damascus named Ananias. The Lord said to him in a vision, ‘Ananias.’ And he said, ‘Here I am, Lord.’ And the Lord said to him, ‘Rise and go to the street called Straight, and at the house of Judas look for a man of Tarsus named Saul, for behold, he is praying, and he has seen in a vision a man named Ananias come in and lay his hands on him so that he might regain his sight.’ But Ananias answered, ‘Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much evil he has done to your saints at Jerusalem. And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on your name’ ... So Ananias departed and entered the house. And laying his hands on him he said, ‘Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus who appeared to you on the road by which you came has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit’… And all who heard him were amazed and said, ‘Is not this the man who made havoc in Jerusalem of those who called upon this name? And has he not come here for this purpose, to bring them bound before the chief priests?’" Acts 9:10-14, 17, 21

"because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. For the Scripture says, ‘Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.’ For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. For ‘everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’" Romans 10:9-13

"To the church of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours:" 1 Corinthians 1:2

Awesome verses! Thank you for posting them. It just shows us on how God, the Father, wants everyone to believe in His son. Whom He gave all power and authority to. This shows us how that God raised up His son at death. Jesus couldnt have done that because he was dead. God had to raise him up. It's wonderful on how we have a awesome God that saves us through his son. Shows us that the trinity doctrine is false. Thanks for showing that too.

Col 1 tells us that God is the God and father of Jesus.
He IS (not was) before all things.
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. (Paul talks about that being the second creation, not edenic.)
We see that Jesus is NOT God but the image of the Father. We see that God works in and through His son. Very simple language isnt it: When we actually make Jesus Yahweh, doesnt really make sense does it.... Of course not.... Scripture tells us that Jesus is the Son of God. The world believes that he is God the Son. We dont find that at all in the bible. Out of all of the words in the bible, why do we have to "make up" words and put them into our doctrines. Sad....... Why cant we just believe that he is the Son of God?

 

[atpollard]

Awesome verses! Thank you for posting them. It just shows us on how God, the Father, wants everyone to believe in His son. Whom He gave all power and authority to. This shows us how that God raised up His son at death. Jesus couldnt have done that because he was dead. God had to raise him up. It's wonderful on how we have a awesome God that saves us through his son. Shows us that the trinity doctrine is false. Thanks for showing that too.

Col 1 tells us that God is the God and father of Jesus.
He IS (not was) before all things.
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. (Paul talks about that being the second creation, not edenic.)
We see that Jesus is NOT God but the image of the Father. We see that God works in and through His son. Very simple language isnt it: When we actually make Jesus Yahweh, doesnt really make sense does it.... Of course not.... Scripture tells us that Jesus is the Son of God. The world believes that he is God the Son. We dont find that at all in the bible. Out of all of the words in the bible, why do we have to "make up" words and put them into our doctrines. Sad....... Why cant we just believe that he is the Son of God?

What exactly does it mean to be a being that is the exact image of God, with all of the power of God, and all of the authority of God ... but not God?
It sounds to me like a distinction without a difference.

If Jesus has ALL of the power of God and is the EXACT image of God, then he is God, is he not?
If he is not God, then he does not have ALL of the power of God and he is not the EXACT image of God, and scripture lies.

I don't see your solution as really solving the conundrum.
... that was why the early church reluctantly accepted what men named 'the Doctrine of the Trinity' to describe the mystery God has presented in His Scriptures.

 

[moorea944]

What exactly does it mean to be a being that is the exact image of God, with all of the power of God, and all of the authority of God ... but not God?
It sounds to me like a distinction without a difference.

If Jesus has ALL of the power of God and is the EXACT image of God, then he is God, is he not?
If he is not God, then he does not have ALL of the power of God and he is not the EXACT image of God, and scripture lies.

I don't see your solution as really solving the conundrum.
... that was why the early church reluctantly accepted what men named 'the Doctrine of the Trinity' to describe the mystery God has presented in His Scriptures.

What exactly does it mean to be a being that is the exact image of God, with all of the power of God, and all of the authority of God ... but not God?

Scripture does not say "exact" image of God. It says that he is the image of God. Plus, Jesus was "given" power and authority. He NEVER had it before that. Plus, arent we in the likeness and image of God (Elohim) too? Then.... acording to you... wouldnt that make us God too? Hmmmm.....

If he is not God, then he does not have ALL of the power of God and he is not the EXACT image of God, and scripture lies.

You might want to re-read scripture..... Plus, scripture doesnt say "exact". Your putting in words to fit your beliefs. YOU make Jesus God, not scripture.

... that was why the early church reluctantly accepted what men named 'the Doctrine of the Trinity' to describe the mystery God has presented in His Scriptures.

Really? What verse is that one..... "Trinity" didnt start until years later...

 

[katiemygirl]

Call on the name of YAHWEH and be saved.

Call on the name of the Lord Jesus and be saved.

From YAHWEH comes salvation.

Jesus became the source (the founder) of eternal salvation.

********************************************

YAHWEH

"Yahweh is my strength and my song,and he has become my salvation; this is my God, and I will praise him, my father's God, and I will exalt him." Exodus 15:2

"Salvation belongs to Yahweh; your blessing be on your people!" Psalm 3:8

"For God alone my soul waits in silence; from him comes my salvation." Psalm 62:1

"Yahweh is my strength and my song; he has become my salvation ... I thank you that you have answered me and have become my salvation." Psalm 118:14, 21

JESUS

"For it was fitting that he, for whom and by whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory, should make the founder of their salvation perfect through suffering." Hebrews 2:10

"And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him," Hebrews 5:9

"and crying out with a loud voice, ‘Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!’" Revelation 7:10

 

[NathanShepard8888]

Call on the name of YAHWEH and be saved.

Call on the name of the Lord Jesus and be saved.

From YAHWEH comes salvation.

Jesus became the source (the founder) of eternal salvation.

********************************************

YAHWEH

"Yahweh is my strength and my song,and he has become my salvation; this is my God, and I will praise him, my father's God, and I will exalt him." Exodus 15:2

"Salvation belongs to Yahweh; your blessing be on your people!" Psalm 3:8

"For God alone my soul waits in silence; from him comes my salvation." Psalm 62:1

"Yahweh is my strength and my song; he has become my salvation ... I thank you that you have answered me and have become my salvation." Psalm 118:14, 21

JESUS

"For it was fitting that he, for whom and by whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory, should make the founder of their salvation perfect through suffering." Hebrews 2:10

"And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him," Hebrews 5:9

"and crying out with a loud voice, ‘Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!’" Revelation 7:10

Peter Wes named Rock.
Yahweh was named Rock.
Does this means Peter is named Yahweh? Certainly not.

 

[katiemygirl]

Call on the name of YAHWEH and be saved.

Call on the name of the Lord Jesus and be saved.

From YAHWEH comes salvation.

Jesus became the source (the founder) of eternal salvation.

YAHWEH

The Lord your God is your life.

Christ is your life.

♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡

"loving the LORD your God, obeying his voice and holding fast to him, for he is your life and length of days, that you may dwell in the land that the LORD swore to your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them." Deuteronomy 30:20

JESUS

"For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ who is your life appears, then you also will appear with him in glory." Colossians 3:3-4

 

[outhouse]

Call on the name of YAHWEH and be saved.

Call on the name of the Lord Jesus and be saved.

Unless you actually need help of any kind.

Then you call your fellow human being who will actually help you.

Doctors will save you in a medical emergency, not a god

In a flood or fire you can try the fire dpt if you want real help

 

[outhouse]

Peter Wes named Rock.

nicknamed "rock"

Yahweh was named Rock.

No he was not. provide sources.

 

[moorea944]

nicknamed "rock"



No he was not. provide sources.

Yahweh was named Rock.

No he was not. provide sources.

Wrong again Outhouse. God was Israel's rock, King and Saviour! But now in our times (Heb 1) He does it through His son. He has given all power and authority.

Deut 32v4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
32v15 But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered with fatness; then he forsook God which made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation.
1 Sam 2v2 There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.
2 Sam 22v2 And he said, The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer;
22v47 The LORD liveth; and blessed be my rock; and exalted be the God of the rock of my salvation.
Psalms 18v2 The LORD is my rock, and my fortress,
18v46, 28v1, 31v2, 31v3, etc, etc.....

 

[atpollard]

Wrong again Outhouse. God was Israel's rock, King and Saviour! But now in our times (Heb 1) He does it through His son. He has given all power and authority.

Deut 32v4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
32v15 But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered with fatness; then he forsook God which made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation.
1 Sam 2v2 There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.
2 Sam 22v2 And he said, The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer;
22v47 The LORD liveth; and blessed be my rock; and exalted be the God of the rock of my salvation.
Psalms 18v2 The LORD is my rock, and my fortress,
18v46, 28v1, 31v2, 31v3, etc, etc.....

Interesting.
I never noticed the 'Rock' was capitalized in those verses in Deuteronomy.
I checked several translations, and they seemed to agree that it was meant to be capital.

 

[outhouse]

Wrong again Outhouse

Now I lay me down to sleep, I hope Mr Rock blesses me

I cannot believe you are taking that as a literal name instead of the allegory and metaphor it obviously is.

Does it say it was his name anywhere. His name was Yahweh, and it was mixed with Els attributed as well by the time this was written

 

[outhouse]

Outhouse.

Hello mr does not understand a description is not always a name

http://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Bible.show/sVerseID/5763/eVerseID/5763

He is the Rock, implying One who is impervious to change. He is our Foundation, indicating One who provides firm footing in a way of life. He is our Fountain, the Source of a refreshing, productive way of life that He intends His people to use.