Is Jesus God?

Mr. Beebe · Dec 18, 2015

NathanShepard8888 said:
Also every scripture that separates Jesus and God

Nathan,,,Can you answer the following questions:

1. Who is the Savior?

2. Who is the "Holy One of Israel"?

This should be easy.

NathanShepard8888 · Dec 18, 2015

Mr. Beebe said:
Nathan,,,Can you answer the following questions:

1. Who is the Savior?

2. Who is the "Holy One of Israel"?

This should be easy.

Yeshua the Messiah

moorea944 · Dec 18, 2015

NathanShepard8888 said:
How do you explain Jesus prayer to God in the garden "Not my will but yours Father." Also every scripture that separates Jesus and God.
I corinthian 8:6} But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him. {

She cant explain it..... but your right, so many scripture tells us that God is the God and Father of Jesus. And he was and is and will be still subject to his father.

Mr. Beebe · Dec 18, 2015

Okay,, I asked:

1. Who is the Savior?

2.Who is the "Holy One of Israel?

Your answer was:

NathanShepard8888 said:
Yeshua the Messiah

"For I am the Lord your God,
The Holy One of Israel, your
Savior..." Isaiah 43:3

Does this scripture help you to see that Jesus is God? Even you admitted that the Holy One of Israel & the Savior is Jesus,,, Isaiah 43:3 is telling you that the Holy One of Israel and the Savior is, " ...the Lord your God."

james2ko · Dec 18, 2015

Mr. Beebe said:
Okay,, I asked:

Does this scripture help you to see that Jesus is God? Even you admitted that the Holy One of Israel & the Savior is Jesus,,, Isaiah 43:3 is telling you that the Holy One of Israel and the Savior is, " ...the Lord your God."

Keep reading. Verses 10-11 indicate He was a created YHVH.

Mr. Beebe · Dec 18, 2015

james2ko said:
Keep reading. Verses 10-11 indicate He was a created YHVH.

Sorry james,, "Before Me, there was no God formed,
Nor shall there be after Me,
I, even I, am the Lord,
And besides Me, there is no Savior."

James,,, Isaiah 43:10 is proof positive that Jesus is the Creator. Jesus isn't a creation... If He was created then we would be idolaters,,worshiping the creation......lol

Philippians 2:6 tells us that Christ was, "in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God."

People say, How can the Bible say God is One,, yet Jesus is also God and yet we see Jesus pray to God,, and on and on and on. Our minds are finite,, we cannot understand an infinite God. So,, people simplify and turn it into something they can understand,,and Jesus becomes a created being. But the fact of the matter is,, Jesus is fully God, and has no beginning and no end.

james2ko · Dec 18, 2015

katiemygirl said:
I did not say shared glory proved Jesus was eternal. I said Jesus shared glory alongside the Father before the world was.

1. Was there ever a "beginning" to "before the world was"?

You are wrong! Jesus has always existed.

2. It's ok if you want to believe that, but if you want to witness to me, you should know you need to come with solid, exegetical proof. Throwing a tantrum and making blanket claims just won't cut it.

He is YHWH, the Alpha and Omega, the first and last! I am assuming nothing.

3. And right after Alpha and Omega it states He is also "the beginning and end" (Rev 21:6). So are you implying YHVH's existence will one day end?

Jesus said He shared glory alongside His Father BEFORE THE WORLD WAS. There is no assuming. I believe the words Jesus spoke. I'm only sorry you don't. Instead you make Jesus out to be a liar.

4. Can you prove to me how I make Jesus out to be a liar exegetically, not just quoting verses with bolded text, and without throwing a tantrum?

JESUS IS YHWH!

5. The LXX of Isa 43:10-11 tells us a YHVH/ho theos [The God] who was created. I asked you to present a parsing with an explanation of the grammar of these verses. I also asked you to demonstrate and explain how the different meanings of prototokos are used in scripture?

James, you are going to believe what you believe no matter if Jesus, Himself, told you He was YHWH.

6. I would believe Him, just as I believe your statement that "Jesus is YHVH". What I don't believe, and you have yet to prove, is that Christ the YHVH has always existed and was not created.

It wouldn't matter! You'd exhaust yourself trying to prove to HIM that HE isn't who He says HE is. I can only say to you, GOOD LUCK! You're going to need it because you'll get no help from the One who bled and died for you.

7. Huh? Why would I have a need to prove to Christ He isn't who He says He is? Shouldn't He already know who He is?

And with that said, I'll be moving on. There is no point in going further. You are no different than the JW's and Muslims who attack the character of my Lord Jesus. It's time for me to shake the dust.

8. Aww c'mon. I thought we were bonding?

Mr. Beebe · Dec 18, 2015

if Jesus was created,,,all who worship Him would be engaging in Idolatry. Those who claim Jesus is a creation are just not rightly dividing the word of truth.

Plus,, they must admit they are Idolaters. Not much more can be said.

james2ko · Dec 18, 2015

Mr. Beebe said:
Sorry james,, "Before Me, there was no God formed,
Nor shall there be after Me,
I, even I, am the Lord,
And besides Me, there is no Savior."

James,,, Isaiah 43:10 is proof positive that Jesus is the Creator.

Read the verse carefully. Jesus is saying before Him, there was no God/EL formed/created.

The verb "formed"[H3335], in vs 10, is in the nifal stem, perfect tense, third person. The nifal stem gives the verb a nuance of the subject being created. It also gives the verb a passive form making the subject (Christ) the recipient of the action. The perfect tense implies a completed past action. The third person simply means the subject (Christ) is referring to someone other than himself as the producer of the creative action.

Putting the grammatical pieces together we have the subject (EL/Christ) telling us the Father (third person) has (perfect tense--completed action) created (nifal stem/passive) no other "God" like Him (Christ) nor shall He create One like Him in the future. In other words, Christ was the only One created/formed of His kind—a one of a kind subordinate God! Isaiah repeats this distinctiveness of a “one of a kind God” in 44:8; 45:6; 46:9.

This interpretation is also consistent with the context as He assured them He is the only "God" who would protect and deliver them from Babylonian captivity.

Jesus isn't a creation... If He was created then we would be idolaters,,worshiping the creation.

He is a created YHVH who created the creation. He is worthy of our worship but His creation is not.

Philippians 2:6 tells us that Christ was, "in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God."

People say, How can the Bible say God is One,, yet Jesus is also God and yet we see Jesus pray to God,, and on and on and on. Our minds are finite,, we cannot understand an infinite God. So,, people simplify and turn it into something they can understand,,and Jesus becomes a created being. But the fact of the matter is,, Jesus is fully God, and has no beginning and no end.

On the other hand, other people say "we cannot understand an infinite God" so they complicate Him and turn Him into something incomprehensible and Jesus somehow becomes two or three separate beings who are actually one.

james2ko · Dec 18, 2015

Mr. Beebe said:
if Jesus was created,,,all who worship Him would be engaging in Idolatry. Those who claim Jesus is a creation are just not rightly dividing the word of truth.

Plus,, they must admit they are Idolaters. Not much more can be said.

Not exactly...

Mr. Beebe · Dec 18, 2015

james2ko said:
Not exactly...

If my reply was that weak,, I wouldn't have replied... i would have quit,, and realized my error. Is it a Pride thing?

james2ko · Dec 18, 2015

Mr. Beebe said:
If my reply was that weak,, I wouldn't have replied... i would have quit,, and realized my error. Is it a Pride thing?

Not weak. It is actually a good argument. But IMHO, it is just not rightly dividing the Word of Truth.

Mr. Beebe · Dec 18, 2015

james2ko said:
Not weak. It is actually a good argument.

You and several Jws,,, are going to be saying your sorry when you find out you how wrong you are on this one. I don't think it's an error that will cause one to lose salvation. But,,, surely you have enough sense to know we are not to worship anything that is created. At any rate,, have a nice evening.

james2ko · Dec 18, 2015

By the way Mr. Beebe, where does it state Jesus has no beginning and no end?

NathanShepard8888 · Dec 18, 2015

Mr. Beebe said:
Okay,, I asked:

1. Who is the Savior?

2.Who is the "Holy One of Israel?

Your answer was:

"For I am the Lord your God,
The Holy One of Israel, your
Savior..." Isaiah 43:3

Does this scripture help you to see that Jesus is God? Even you admitted that the Holy One of Israel & the Savior is Jesus,,, Isaiah 43:3 is telling you that the Holy One of Israel and the Savior is, " ...the Lord your God."

The old testament also calls God the Rock. Does that mean that Peter was also God.

NathanShepard8888 · Dec 18, 2015

moorea944 said:
She cant explain it..... but your right, so many scripture tells us that God is the God and Father of Jesus. And he was and is and will be still subject to his father.

There are 68 scriptures that call Jesus the Son of God but zero that say he is God.

james2ko · Dec 18, 2015

Mr. Beebe said:
You and several Jws,,, are going to be saying your sorry when you find out you how wrong you are on this one. I don't think it's an error that will cause one to lose salvation.

I'll take my chances. Besides you haven't provided any solid, exegetical reason why I shouldn't roll the dice.

But,,, surely you have enough sense to know we are not to worship anything that is created. At any rate,, have a nice evening.

Yes, I do have sense enough to know not to worship anything Christ, the created YHWH, created.

katiemygirl · Dec 19, 2015

NathanShepard8888 said:
How do you explain Jesus prayer to God in the garden "Not my will but yours Father." Also every scripture that separates Jesus and God.
I corinthian 8:6} But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him. {

The verse you quoted shows Jesus was subordinate to His Father. Other verses show Jesus is equal to God. (Phil. 2:6)

katiemygirl · Dec 19, 2015

The Bible teaches that Jesus is called God, the Lord Almighty, Israels King and Redeemer, the Rock, the First and Last, the Alpha and the Omega, and the Beginning and the End. These passages should remove any doubt that Jesus has always existed.

james2ko · Dec 19, 2015

katiemygirl said:
The verse you quoted shows Jesus was subordinate to His Father. Other verses show Jesus is equal to God. (Phil. 2:6)

A deeper look will reveal Paul was actually implying quite the opposite—the Son was not equal to the Father

Is Jesus God?

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