Is Jesus God?

[Sand Dancer]

I'm interested in hearing thoughts about (1) Where this idea comes from and (2) If you agree with it and why/why not. I have heard it described like this: Because of the Trinity, Jesus is God, and all the things done in the Old Testament were therefore done by Jesus prior to his human incarnation. Thoughts?

IMO, Jesus was a spirit-infused person but I am still trying to figure out what I believe for sure, i.e., whether or not he was God. God is spirit, Jesus was God's body for a time and the Holy Spirit is God's mind. Since Jesus refuted things in the OT, I do not think he was around prior to his physical appearance. Of course, I don't think the Bible is literal or inerrant, so there is room for interpretation.

 

[Soapy]

Because the Godhead is three in One and Jesus as a man, submitted to the Father.
And he was as talking to Jewish people who knew about YHWH.
"And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth."
All authority makes him equal to the Father. Him being submissive to his calling doesn't make him less than God.

All power and authority GRANTED TO Jesus was AFTER HE HAD ACCOMPLISHED the delivery of the word that God:YHWH, gave him to deliver to the people.

Having power and authority granted to him DOES NOT make him EQUAL to the Father. That’s a ridiculous idea. The P&A is only LOANED to him in order to carry out what was to come (The restoration of the world order AFTER he is taken up to Heaven). You will read that he ‘HANDS IT BACK TO GOD’ when his task is accomplished.

Tell me, if a man grants his son access to his expensive Super car - does the son then OWN the car?

Doesn’t the son hand back the car to his Father at some later date?

Isn’t the LICENCE and therefore the OWNERSHIP of the car still in the Fathers name?

When Joseph was in Egypt during the great famine, he was GRANTED to ACT AS Pharoah UNTIL the famine was dealt with. He WAS NOT PHARAOH but ACTED IN PLACE OF PHAROAH:

• ‘In all situations, EXCEPTING MY THRONE, you are as to be Pharoah to them’

‘Pharoah’ is just the TITLE of the ruling monarch of Egypt (at that time). The RULER, the PERSON OF THE PHAROAH, is STILL PHAROAH, even if Joseph was ruling (‘pharoah’) in his place.
And what made Joseph TO BE PHAROAH (ruler)? The SIGNET RING of THE PHAROAH.

Pharoah (He has a personal name which I don’t know right now!) LOANED his signet ring so that anything Joseph sealed with it WAS AS GOOD AS PHAROAH HIMSELF DOING IT: Joseph acted IN PHAROAH’s NAME AND POWER!

This theme is echoed in the book of Esther wherein the man, Mordeciah, is loaned the signed ring of the king (Xerxes) so any edict Mordeciah sealed with the ring was as though the king had done it himself…. Mordeciah was NEVER THE KING but acted in the NAME and POWER of the king.

The scriptures always validated itself - if you care about the truth.

 

[Wildswanderer]

All power and authority GRANTED TO Jesus was AFTER HE HAD ACCOMPLISHED the delivery of the word that God:YHWH, gave him to deliver to the people.

Think about that. How can a man, even the best man that ever lived, have all the authority of God? That's impossible! Only God can have all authority.

 

[Soapy]

Think about that. How can a man, even the best man that ever lived, have all the authority of God? That's impossible! Only God can have all authority.

Oh come on!!!

Jesus says that all the things he did man would do - AND GREATER THINGS THAN THESE.. in time to come.

It means that:

• Healing the sick
• Bring people out of Comas (In the time of Jesus a person in a coma was considered DEAD!)
• Making the blind to see
• Making the lame to walk
• Cure disease and mental disorder (In the tone of Jesus people considered someone with a disease or mental disorder was under the influence of a demon spirit)
• Control the weather (careful with this one!)
• Spread the word of God through the power of the spirit of God: Teach; remind; uphold; express; counter evil and lies, etc
• …

Yes, all these healings etc. were ‘MIRACLES’ to people in the time of Jesus. The disciples, under the POWER OF GOD, carried out many such ‘MIRACLES’ … they were just MEN!! Though index the guidance of Jesus.

And when THEY TOO (now Apostles) were anointed with the Spirit of God (the power of God) at Pentecost, THEY TOO, like Jesus AFTER he was anointed with the spirit of God, went about carrying out MIRACLES even greater than when the beets with Jesus.

So it is THE POWER OF GOD IN A PERSON that enables the person to carry out miracles. It is the TEACHING of things in the name of God that brings the sciences, technology, doctoring, preaching, etc. , to the fore. OF COURSE there are those who will exploit the power of God - bug God will deal with them in His timely manner!!

 

[Wildswanderer]

Oh come on!!!

Jesus says that all the things he did man would do - AND GREATER THINGS THAN THESE.. in time to come.

It means that:

• Healing the sick
• Bring people out of Comas (In the time of Jesus a person in a coma was considered DEAD!)
• Making the blind to see
• Making the lame to walk
• Cure disease and mental disorder (In the tone of Jesus people considered someone with a disease or mental disorder was under the influence of a demon spirit)
• Control the weather (careful with this one!)
• Spread the word of God through the power of the spirit of God: Teach; remind; uphold; express; counter evil and lies, etc
• …

Yes, all these healings etc. were ‘MIRACLES’ to people in the time of Jesus. The disciples, under the POWER OF GOD, carried out many such ‘MIRACLES’ … they were just MEN!! Though index the guidance of Jesus.

And when THEY TOO (now Apostles) were anointed with the Spirit of God (the power of God) at Pentecost, THEY TOO, like Jesus AFTER he was anointed with the spirit of God, went about carrying out MIRACLES even greater than when the beets with Jesus.

So it is THE POWER OF GOD IN A PERSON that enables the person to carry out miracles. It is the TEACHING of things in the name of God that brings the sciences, technology, doctoring, preaching, etc. , to the fore. OF COURSE there are those who will exploit the power of God - bug God will deal with them in His timely manner!!

Lol, seriously, you think that disciples had all the authority of God? Where is that in the Bible?

 

[moorea944]

Lol, seriously, you think that disciples had all the authority of God? Where is that in the Bible?

The Apostles and disciples were under the authority of God. And they could do certain miracles too. It doesnt mean that they were God or that they were Jesus. They were "given" the Holy Spirit in the upper room, Acts 2 . Jesus was given the HS at baptism. They could also raise the dead, even some OT prophets could even do that too, blind can see, lame could walk. Peter's own shadow healed someone too. Wow, I guess he's God too...... So they were given power, just like Jesus. Jesus says that he can do nothing without the Father. That makes him God?? Of course not. Read Heb 2....

Mathew 28 tells us that all authority was given to Jesus from his Father. Does that make him God? Of course not. I never understood this Jesus is God, trinity thing at all. Unbelievable!! lol Totally degrades our Heavenly Father!!!

Also we have to remember that God can give anything to anybody at any time. And it doesnt mean you keep it with you forever. He can take it back at anytime. Example... God gave Jesus, certain angels and certain Apostles the power to forgive sins. Remember that in the bible? Yup its there too. Does that make them all God?

 

[Wildswanderer]

Mathew 28 tells us that all authority was given to Jesus from his Father. Does that make him God? Of course not. I never understood this Jesus is God, trinity thing at all. Unbelievable!! lol Totally degrades our Heavenly Father!!!

Totally doesn't. All authority means just that. Authority over every atom in the universe. No one else was ever given that.

 

[moorea944]

Bible doesnt say that. Every atom in the universe. We sometimes dont get to know all of God's ways. We can only guess. So what does "all authority" mean? We are not told. But what IS told... is that Jesus was given it by God. Simple to understand. Are you saying that God gave it to himself?... I hope not...

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Bible doesnt say that. Every atom in the universe. We sometimes dont get to know all of God's ways. We can only guess. So what does "all authority" mean? We are not told. But what IS told... is that Jesus was given it by God. Simple to understand. Are you saying that God gave it to himself?... I hope not...

Your post was very hard to understand due to pronouns with no reference, incomplete sentences, etc. However, I can at least reply to you that I don't think Jesus has any authority at all, either because he was God, or because he was given it by God.

 

[paarsurrey]

Is Jesus God?

There is no question of Jesus being god in real terms, please. Right?

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

The Apostles and disciples were under the authority of God. And they could do certain miracles too. It doesnt mean that they were God or that they were Jesus. They were "given" the Holy Spirit in the upper room, Acts 2 . Jesus was given the HS at baptism. They could also raise the dead, even some OT prophets could even do that too, blind can see, lame could walk. Peter's own shadow healed someone too. Wow, I guess he's God too...... So they were given power, just like Jesus. Jesus says that he can do nothing without the Father. That makes him God?? Of course not. Read Heb 2....

Mathew 28 tells us that all authority was given to Jesus from his Father. Does that make him God? Of course not. I never understood this Jesus is God, trinity thing at all. Unbelievable!! lol Totally degrades our Heavenly Father!!!

Also we have to remember that God can give anything to anybody at any time. And it doesnt mean you keep it with you forever. He can take it back at anytime. Example... God gave Jesus, certain angels and certain Apostles the power to forgive sins. Remember that in the bible? Yup its there too. Does that make them all God?

"The Apostles and disciples were under the authority of God."

How does one know that, did Yeshua- the Israelite Messiah say it, please, if yes, then kindly quote from him in first person, please??? Right?

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Lol, seriously, you think that disciples had all the authority of God? Where is that in the Bible?

There was none, it is all, conjecture, please, right?
Regards

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Is Jesus God?

There is no question of Jesus being god in real terms, please. Right?

Regards

You seriously dont know that different religions have different positions on this?

 

[Soapy]

Totally doesn't. All authority means just that. Authority over every atom in the universe. No one else was ever given that.

Wow! And therefore, in your belief, Pharoah was almighty God wherein ALMIGHTY GOD said of him:

• For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” (Romans 9:17 from Exodus 9:16)

And Moses is almighty God:

• “Then the LORD said to Moses, “See, I have made you as God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet.”

Every ‘True God’ has a prophet through whom the ‘true God’ SENDS and EMPOWERS to carry out His commands.

In the case of YHWH, the final prophet is Jesus Christ - empowered by YHWH’s spirit.

A prophet is not GOD who sent him - Jesus is not YHWH who sent him:

• “Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”” (John 6:29)

 

[Soapy]

"The Apostles and disciples were under the authority of God."

How does one know that, did Yeshua- the Israelite Messiah say it, please, if yes, then kindly quote from him in first person, please??? Right?

Regards

Luke 24:49:

• “I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.”

 

[Soapy]

Lol, seriously, you think that disciples had all the authority of God? Where is that in the Bible?

What is the matter with you cognition? ‘I DID NOT SAY THAT!!’

I understand fully why you get things wrong about scriptures: You need a full time teacher since you are clearly not able to understand simple English or sentence construction!

What I said was that:

• IF the poster suggests that Jesus is God because he received the power of God
• THEN it MUST FOLLOW that those I pointed out who ALSO received the power of God - or even WERE CALLED ‘GOD’, by the dictat of the poster, should then also be said to BE GOD!

Clearly the poster is should then agree that having the power of God DOES NOT MEAN the receiver of God’s spirit IS GOD, HIMSELF.

But, again, since you can’t understand the ‘mathematics of scriptures’ you won’t understand much more unless a godly teacher shows you the truth - and even then you still wouldn’t believe the truth.

 

[Muffled]

I sincerely doubt that.

I believe I am not surprised. A person without the Holy Spirit has very little chance at all of recognizing voices.

 

[Soapy]

I believe I am not surprised. A person without the Holy Spirit has very little chance at all of recognizing voices.

You said it!!!

 

[Muffled]

What us the difference between ‘Transmitted’ and ‘Sent’?

Also, if Satan influences one person (‘s spirit) to influence another person (‘s spirit) you then absolve Satan of the original influence?

I believe a voice is transmitted through telephone lines. Telegraphs are sent and transmitted. These days voices are more apt to be sent as digital messages. With telegraphs the words were sent by Morse code. Transmission requires a medium, sending does not. The concept of sending is that a power cases something to travel from here to there. It does not change the nature of the something. Transmission often does involve changing the nature of the something.

I believe Satan is the accuser and you made an accusation. I simply made a deduction.

 

[Muffled]

What is the matter with you cognition? ‘I DID NOT SAY THAT!!’

I understand fully why you get things wrong about scriptures: You need a full time teacher since you are clearly not able to understand simple English or sentence construction!

What I said was that:

• IF the poster suggests that Jesus is God because he received the power of God
• THEN it MUST FOLLOW that those I pointed out who ALSO received the power of God - or even WERE CALLED ‘GOD’, by the dictat of the poster, should then also be said to BE GOD!

Clearly the poster is should then agree that having the power of God DOES NOT MEAN the receiver of God’s spirit IS GOD, HIMSELF.

But, again, since you can’t understand the ‘mathematics of scriptures’ you won’t understand much more unless a godly teacher shows you the truth - and even then you still wouldn’t believe the truth.

God's Spirit is God so that means God is there in the receiver which is exactly what Jesus said in John 14.