Is it religiously wrong to commit a suicide?

[viole]

According to the Talmud, in such a case, even to change a communal custom like the color of one's shoelaces one is required to martyr oneself over.

So, do you think that imposing the color, say, orange, to a Jewish community's shoelaces, would cause a mass suicide?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Tumah]

So, do you think that imposing the color, say, orange, to a Jewish community's shoelaces, would cause a mass suicide?

Ciao

- viole

If the law was "wear orange shoelaces or die", then we would be required to allow the authorities to kill us (assuming the community had a specific shoelace color that they wore). And assuming it was a law that directly targeted Judaism.

 

[viole]

If the law was "wear orange shoelaces or die", then we would be required to allow the authorities to kill us (assuming the community had a specific shoelace color that they wore).

Do not ever say that to criminal antisemites. I cannot imagine anyone being hanged at things like the Nurnberg trial for ordering wearing orange shoelaces.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Tumah]

Do not ever say that to criminal antisemites. I cannot imagine anyone being hanged at things like the Nurnberg trial for ordering wearing orange shoelaces.

Ciao

- viole

I think if criminal antisemites became the lawmakers of the country, there will be other problems to deal with.

 

[roger1440]

Maccabees is not canonical and I've never read it, so you;ll have to give me a brief summary.

I’m surprised you never read it. Hanukkah has its roots in 1st and 2nd Maccabees. I know of the books from reading Catholic Bibles. In the past I have had Catholic girlfriends. All the printed Bibles I have are protestant Bibles. They don’t include the apocrypha.

http://www.reformjudaism.org/hanukkah-history

 

[Tumah]

I’m surprised you never read it. Hanukkah has its roots in 1st and 2nd Maccabees. I know of the books from reading Catholic Bibles. In the past I have had Catholic girlfriends. All the printed Bibles I have are protestant Bibles. They don’t include the apocrypha.

http://www.reformjudaism.org/hanukkah-history

I guess its not considered such an important book in my circles.

 

[rusra02]

The few persons the Bible mentions having committed suicide did not have God's approval. However, IMO this does not mean that all persons who commit suicide die without hope of a resurrection. Millions commit suicide because of depression, mental or physical illness, grief, despair, tradition, and other reasons. There is no Scriptural reason to believe these persons die without hope. (Acts 24:15) Still, if a person reflects on the sorrow and pain their self-murder causes others, love for others should restrain one from thus ending a precious life. (Matthew 22:39)

 

[Aquitaine]

The amount of time a person lives is already determined. Losing or gaining time depends on the person's merits or sins.

So does that mean that those who die earlier than others are either less worthy or more sinful?

 

[Tumah]

So does that mean that those who die earlier than others are either less worthy or more sinful?

I'm not sure what distinction you're making between less worthy and more sinful, but it can be either that, or they were originally meant to have less years to begin with.
There is also a Midrash that says Abraham had 5 years deducted from his life so that he wouldn't see Esau become evil. I don't know if that's an exception or a rule.

 

[Segev Moran]

All of it.

GOD I hope not!
What do you mean all of it?
Having slaves?
Killing whole villages and cities?
Stoning people?
What do you mean All of it?

 

[Aquitaine]

I'm not sure what distinction you're making between less worthy and more sinful, but it can be either that, or they were originally meant to have less years to begin with.
There is also a Midrash that says Abraham had 5 years deducted from his life so that he wouldn't see Esau become evil. I don't know if that's an exception or a rule.

How do we determine who lost years due to predetermination versus sin, and to what degree does "sin" affect a person's overall "merit rating"?

 

[Segev Moran]

No. I believe that Satan is a powerful life force, and does not take lives. Lives are taken by the circumstances, by another person, or by oneself. Does Satan forbid suicide? No.

What are the limitations made by Satan?
On the theist concepts, it is supposed to allow everything.. preferably "sin" and such no?

 

[Segev Moran]

Is it religiously wrong to commit a suicide?
I believe that no one has the right to take their own life or another life. God created each and everyone of us and only God can end that life when our number is up. We are all here by the Grace of God and our time on this earth was noted in God's timetable, before the world began, as to exactly when our life would end.

ronandcarol

What about the rest of the post?

 

[Segev Moran]

Would it not be better to ask simply if it is right or wrong? Do not circumstances and societal norms where you live not dictate what is right or wrong?

Oh they do indeed..
But if one kills himself.. he couldn't care less about whether or not it socially right or wrong.. I'm talking about religious people that actually believe in the after life

 

[Tumah]

GOD I hope not!
What do you mean all of it?
Having slaves?
Killing whole villages and cities?
Stoning people?
What do you mean All of it?

I think you lost track of what I was responding to.
You:

In the ten commandments, i haven't seen any references to the fact you can kill someone if its war..
Or if he is a murderer...
Or if he is trying to kill you..
Or whatever reasons we humans find...​

Me:

Why is the 10 commandments the standard?​

You:

So what is the standard?​

Me:

All of it.​

The standard for determining the Law is the entire Torah, not just 10 out of the hundreds of commandments. The entire Torah makes provisions for capital punishment, killing during war, in self-defense, etc. besides for its general command to not murder.

​

 

[Tumah]

How do we determine who lost years due to predetermination versus sin, and to what degree does "sin" affect a person's overall "merit rating"?

I have no idea. Why would we do that?

 

[Aquitaine]

I have no idea. Why would we do that?

Perhaps it would help us form a hierarchy of different sins based on the amount of years shaved off our lives?
I'm just curious as to how this whole thing is supposed to work.

 

[Tumah]

Perhaps it would help us form a hierarchy of different sins based on the amount of years shaved off our lives?
I'm just curious as to how this whole thing is supposed to work.

I don't think there's a way to make a hierarchy. What's a sin for one person, might not be a sin for another. Why would we even do that? 'Try not to do any sins' is a much better mentality then 'avoid the ones that kill you', I think.

I don't understand what's difficult here. G-d decrees a given number of years for every individual. Not the same number of years, each person is different. Then within those allotted years, its possible to lose time for bad behavior or gain for good behavior.

 

[Segev Moran]

I think you lost track of what I was responding to.
You:

In the ten commandments, i haven't seen any references to the fact you can kill someone if its war..
Or if he is a murderer...
Or if he is trying to kill you..
Or whatever reasons we humans find...​

Me:

Why is the 10 commandments the standard?​

You:

So what is the standard?​

Me:

All of it.​

The standard for determining the Law is the entire Torah, not just 10 out of the hundreds of commandments. The entire Torah makes provisions for capital punishment, killing during war, in self-defense, etc. besides for its general command to not murder.

​

Okey... I'll go you on that one...
So which part of the Torah is the word of GOD and which is not?

 

[Tumah]

Okey... I'll go you on that one...
So which part of the Torah is the word of GOD

All of it.

and which is not?

None of it.

Are we still working on the suicide question or has that been dealt with?