Is it possible to truely forgive someone and press charges at the same time?

[Flat Earth Kyle]

God will do what he will do. My actions in no way hinder gods actions.

It is not responsible for me to let a robber roam free around the world when I can stop it.

Jesus told us that we must judge :

You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

One MUST remove the speck from the borthers eyes. One must try to have ones eyes as clean as posible (judge oneself often) so that one can do a better job when one judges others, this is a service. Judging others is a service when done well.

Yeah, it is a total service to kidnap someone strap them down and try and remove the speck out of their eye against their will.

 

[Me Myself]

Yeah, it is a total service to kidnap someone strap them down and try and remove the speck out of their eye against their will.

If the "speck on their eye" is being a burglar, then yes, society provides us the service to chase those guys down and remove them from the rest of the population.

Thanks god for that.

 

[McBell]

Is it possible to forgive someone and and still press charges against someone?

Yes.

When first thinking about it the instinctive answer is no, but then thinking about it on a larger scale if someone were to intrude into your house and attack a member of your family seriously injure them or even kill them, then they run away and the police catch them. Afterwords you say, "I forgive you for what you have done", and then have the police throw them into prison. Is that true forgiveness?

Forgiveness does not negate justice.

It is harder to say now, but deep down my heart still feels inclined to say no, it wouldn't be true forgiveness if I were still to press charges even in the case of murder.

Then we are in disagreement.
Forgiving what someone has done to me is one thing and in fact all i can do.
Forgiving someone for their transgressions against others is not something i can do.
they have to gain said forgiveness for the transgressions from those whom they transgress against.
So whilst I am fogiving them for the hurt(s) they caused me by hurting or murdering a family member, I am pressing charges in the hopes that no one else has to go through the pain I have forgiven the criminal for.

I do not equate forgiveness with mercy like you seem to be doing.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

An example: If someone crashes into my car, and it doesn't run anymore, I would probably say something like "hey, it was an accident, we all make mistakes, but you're either gonna have to get this fixed or get me a new one because my income revolves around my car." Or it could be something like pressing charges against a thief who stole for money for a fix to have them committed to rehab.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

Yes.


Forgiveness does not negate justice.


Then we are in disagreement.
Forgiving what someone has done to me is one thing and in fact all i can do.
Forgiving someone for their transgressions against others is not something i can do.
they have to gain said forgiveness for the transgressions from those whom they transgress against.
So whilst I am fogiving them for the hurt(s) they caused me by hurting or murdering a family member, I am pressing charges in the hopes that no one else has to go through the pain I have forgiven the criminal for.

I do not equate forgiveness with mercy like you seem to be doing.

Well, I can pray that God forgives me after I go to Hell (prison), or I can pray that God forgives me before I go to Hell (prison) and that he does not send me there.

 

[McBell]

Well, I can pray that God forgives me after I go to Hell (prison), or I can pray that God forgives me before I go to Hell (prison) and that he does not send me there.

Nice strawman.
pr is it a red herring?

I get them two confused sometimes.

 

[ChristineES]

Forgive others as I would have God forgive me...

Humm... Do I want God to forgive me immediately and not press charges against me, or do I want God to throw me into prison let me pay the price of my crimes and then forgive me afterwords?

Granted I know that the matter of pressing charges is not always in my hands. If someone steals from me yes it would be in my hands, but if they kill a member of my family the government will press charges against them whether I want them to or not. The question is where is my heart?

It would be great if you knew the person wouldn't harm someone else. I am not talking of any eternal punishment, you know. I am not talking about someone doing something that was just a one time deal and you know he or she wouldn't do it again to someone else. You can easily forgive them in your heart but if the person is unrepentant, then you want to protect others from this person doing the same to them.

Another question: If your child breaks the rules and you forgive them, don't you still punish them by grounding or time out or whatever?

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

It would be great if you knew the person wouldn't harm someone else. I am not talking of any eternal punishment, you know. I am not talking about someone doing something that was just a one time deal and you know he or she wouldn't do it again to someone else. You can easily forgive them in your heart but if the person is unrepentant, then you want to protect others from this person doing the same to them.

Another question: If your child breaks the rules and you forgive them, don't you still punish them by grounding or time out or whatever?

I remember when I was little there was a time when I bit my little brother and for doing so my Mom acting as the government was carrying me away to bite on bar of soap and while doing so my brother pled, "No Mom don't give him the soap." My brother was very well justified in seeing me face my consequences and be given the soap treatment but he decided not to press charges. After that I did not have to bite the soap.
Now there is a difference between teaching my daughter a lesson (don't bite or hit) in comparison to teaching my brother (or a criminal) a lesson.
Yes I need to let the government know, just as my brother did when he let my Mom know, afterwords you have a choice as to whether or not you want to press charges, and the government also has a choice. For example even though my brother said don't give him the soap, my Mom could of given me the soap anyway. My brother wouldn't of pressed charges and whatever happened after that it would have been in the governments hands.

I feel like this has a major application to us in our earthly government as well as in our heavenly government. I believe in leaving the judgement of who gets punished and who does not in God's hands, for he is the perfect judge. We are justified if we choose to press charges (though this claim is not biblical as far as I am aware), but I believe that by pressing charges I am denying greater blessings that God has in store for me if I choose to leave the charges to God.

 

[Me Myself]

Seriously,the fact that you think the analogy applies is very worrying.

Yu are talking about two kids being stupid, we are talking about adults doing seriously immoral acts.

Stealing all the money of someone leaves him vulnerable in many ways. Him AND his family. Yu cant frigging equate that to you bitting your brother for Krishna's sake ô_o .

Your brother was obviously never in mortal danger. You were both kids and it was EXTREMELY unlikely you would have grown out as a "biter" if you didnt get the soap or some silly thing like that.

You don't understand that it is not about vengeance, it is about e safety of the society.

 

[WyattDerp]

I feel like this has a major application to us in our earthly government as well as in our heavenly government. I believe in leaving the judgement of who gets punished and who does not in God's hands, for he is the perfect judge. We are justified if we choose to press charges (though this claim is not biblical as far as I am aware), but I believe that by pressing charges I am denying greater blessings that God has in store for me if I choose to leave the charges to God.

Forgiveness - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Tefila Zaka meditation, which is recited just before Yom Kippur, closes with the following:

I know that there is no one so righteous that they have not wronged another, financially or physically, through deed or speech. This pains my heart within me, because wrongs between humans and their fellow are not atoned by Yom Kippur, until the wronged one is appeased. Because of this, my heart breaks within me, and my bones tremble; for even the day of death does not atone for such sins. Therefore I prostrate and beg before You, to have mercy on me, and grant me grace, compassion, and mercy in Your eyes and in the eyes of all people. For behold, I forgive with a final and resolved forgiveness anyone who has wronged me, whether in person or property, even if they slandered me, or spread falsehoods against me. So I release anyone who has injured me either in person or in property, or has committed any manner of sin that one may commit against another [except for legally enforceable business obligations, and except for someone who has deliberately harmed me with the thought ‘I can harm him because he will forgive me']. Except for these two, I fully and finally forgive everyone; may no one be punished because of me. And just as I forgive everyone, so may You grant me grace in the eyes of others, that they too forgive me absolutely.

In other words, forgiving others doesn't even mean you are entitled that they forgive you as well; but you cannot seriously even ask that they might, before you haven't done so first. That's how I understood that, and I think it's beautiful. It's generally a great wikipedia article, do checkz0r it out.

 

[Musty]

Is it possible to forgive someone and and still press charges against someone?

When first thinking about it the instinctive answer is no, but then thinking about it on a larger scale if someone were to intrude into your house and attack a member of your family seriously injure them or even kill them, then they run away and the police catch them. Afterwords you say, "I forgive you for what you have done", and then have the police throw them into prison. Is that true forgiveness?

It is harder to say now, but deep down my heart still feels inclined to say no, it wouldn't be true forgiveness if I were still to press charges even in the case of murder.

What do you think?

It's possible to forgive someone but still feel it's appropriate that they be subject to the law depending on the law they broke, why they broke it and the likely hood they'll do so again.

If someone stole some food off me to feed their starving family I'd be inclined to forgive them and not press charges because they aren't a threat to society and their crime was due to difficult circumstances.

On the other hand if someone attacked someone I cared about for fun if I was able to forgive them I'd still want them charged because they remain a danger to society and it would be negligent of me to allow their behavior to go unaddressed.

The issue of whether the justice system is capable of stopping people from re-offending is a separate issue.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

It's possible to forgive someone but still feel it's appropriate that they be subject to the law depending on the law they broke, why they broke it and the likely hood they'll do so again.

If someone stole some food off me to feed their starving family I'd be inclined to forgive them and not press charges because they aren't a threat to society and their crime was due to difficult circumstances.

On the other hand if someone attacked someone I cared about for fun if I was able to forgive them I'd still want them charged because they remain a danger to society and it would be negligent of me to allow their behavior to go unaddressed.

The issue of whether the justice system is capable of stopping people from re-offending is a separate issue.

So you are saying it is good to forgive people, but only sometimes?

 

[ChristineES]

So you are saying it is good to forgive people, but only sometimes?

What I've been trying to say (and I believe other are trying to say) is that you can forgive someone even if you press charges. Sometimes you have to morally or ethically press charges because the person will harm someone else. Just because you press charges, it doesn't mean that you don't forgive them.

 

[Me Myself]

So you are saying it is good to forgive people, but only sometimes?

I think you need to read what he actually said, disregarding the additives coming from the voices in your head.

I wager the clarity with which the texts come forth after that will astound you.

Spoiler: In case you fail

no, he didnt say that. He said forgiving is okay, but you need to take responsibility for your role in keeping your society safe.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

What I've been trying to say (and I believe other are trying to say) is that you can forgive someone even if you press charges. Sometimes you have to morally or ethically press charges because the person will harm someone else. Just because you press charges, it doesn't mean that you don't forgive them.

So what is your definition of forgiveness? I suppose that is where we find our disagreement.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

I would argue that it would depend on your reasons for pressing charges:

If done to obtain material support to redress damage done by the infringement; that remains valid despite forgiveness, for while you bear them no ill-will they are still responsible for what they have done and should provide redress.

If done in order to restrain their ability to do such actions again because they are unable to help themselves (such as by locking them up because they are intellectually impaired and dangerous to others) than this can be done while forgiving someone, for while you bear them no ill-will and they may (or may not) be responsible for their actions, they may not be able to prevent themselves from doing such again to others.

If on the other hand it is done to attempt to punish the person then it is not complete forgiveness, for you still bear them ill-will and it is that which guides your judgment.​

 

[bobhikes]

I think your missing the point of forgiveness.

You only have to forgive someone if you resent what they did to you. Forgiveness is your ability to remove your own hurt so you can get on with your life. What it does to the other person has no bearing on the forgiveness.

We tend to think that forgiveness is for the transgressor but this is not true.

As to prosecuting, as long as I hold no hurt I can fully expect that you are prosecuted and punished for your transgression. If I hold no hurt I would probably be the best prosecutor and punisher but it is hard to hold no hurt.

This is the other part of forgiveness we miss, very few people give true forgiveness, they say it because it is expected but they harbor hurt for years.

*****I edited out unconditional forgiveness as I do not believe it to be a proper definition

 

[Koldo]

As to prosecuting, as long as I hold no hurt I can fully expect that you are prosecuted and punished for your transgression. If I hold no hurt I would probably be the best prosecutor and punisher but it is hard to hold no hurt.

I agree on part with this. I have an addendum to make: If i want someone punished because i seek revenge then i didn't forgive this person.

 

[ChristineES]

So what is your definition of forgiveness? I suppose that is where we find our disagreement.

Forgiveness is not holding a grudge against someone, not having any resentment. Even if one doesn't have resentment or hold a grudge, that doesn't mean the forgiving party needs to set a criminal loose on society.

 

[Brickjectivity]

From a New Testament Standpoint the "eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth" pressing charges type of justice has been done away with. No where did Christ ever teach anything about self defense by violent means and no where did he ever encourage someone to throw a criminal in prison. Instead, he encourages if a man sue thee for they coat, give him thy cloak also, and if a man smites you to turn the other cheek.

Its probably a little more complicated than that. Jesus drove money changers out of the temple with a whip and refused to be thrown off of a cliff (by a lynch mob). Also, 'Jesus' and the word 'Christ' are not simply interchangeable. Otherwise 'Jesus Christ' in Revelation 1:1 would be redundant. Its likely that this passage about face-slaps is a lesson against making comparisons such as "I'm right and you're wrong." I agree that Jesus endorsed a non-violent approach to most things, but he knew how to fight apparently.