Is it MORE perfect?

[Shadow Wolf]

I'm not sure what you're calling unity of the people. The Southern States were united. That didn't matter apparently. They were not united by the people of the the U.S. after the war. There was division then and still is today. Just look at your red and blue states.

The people united either as Yankees or Confederates. They were not unified as a nation, and thus the nation was not unified.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

But, when one side views the Constitution as not worth the paper it is printed on, what then?

Good-Ole-Rebel

"One side"?

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

"One side"?

Well, that was the overall view of the North prior to and during the War Between the States.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

The people united either as Yankees or Confederates. They were not unified as a nation, and thus the nation was not unified.

Thus the nation is not unified today. It is 'united' by political bands forced by the bayonet. It is not united by the will of the people as exercised through individual states.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Ayjaydee]

Doesn't look over to me.

Lol, most Brits still havent accepted it either
Whaddya ya think brexits about,?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Thus the nation is not unified today. It is 'united' by political bands forced by the bayonet. It is not united by the will of the people as exercised through individual states.

Good-Ole-Rebel

I don't see any bayonets.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Lol, most Brits still havent accepted it either
Whaddya ya think brexits about,?

I assure you, Western Liberal Democracies have faced greater existentialist threats.

 

[Ayjaydee]

I assure you, Western Liberal Democracies have faced greater existentialist threats.

America is no longer a democracy

 

[Shadow Wolf]

America is no longer a democracy

It never has been a democracy, not in usual sense of the word. The Founding Fathers actually did not like democracy, seeing it hardly any better than mob rule.

 

[Ayjaydee]

It never has been a democracy, not in usual sense of the word. The Founding Fathers actually did not like democracy, seeing it hardly any better than mob rule.

It never has been a democracy, not in usual sense of the word. The Founding Fathers actually did not like democracy, seeing it hardly any better than mob rule.

Spare me your semantic word games, I've heard it all before. Usual sense of the word is a smokescreen

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Spare me your semantic word games, I've heard it all before. Usual sense of the word is a smokescreen

But it's a fact America was not established to be a democracy. The Founding Fathers didn't like them. The concept is called "Western Liberal Democracy," but it's a bit of a misnomer as these systems do include systems such as monarchies and republics, and states that mix-and-match different styles (what pretty much everybody does anyways).

 

[Ayjaydee]

But it's a fact America was not established to be a democracy. The Founding Fathers didn't like them. The concept is called "Western Liberal Democracy," but it's a bit of a misnomer as these systems do include systems such as monarchies and republics, and states that mix-and-match different styles (what pretty much everybody does anyways).

As I said, word games. The fact remains that the citizens have had their power stripped.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

As I said, word games. The fact remains that the citizens have had their power stripped.

It's not word games. Americans do not elect a President, and it used to be they didn't elect Senators. But the vote for Senators was gained. Some rights have been lost, but it is not from the perspective of America ever having been a democracy. That simply never has been and never was.

 

[Ayjaydee]

J

It's not word games. Americans do not elect a President, and it used to be they didn't elect Senators. But the vote for Senators was gained. Some rights have been lost, but it is not from the perspective of America ever having been a democracy. That simply never has been and never was.

It's not word games. Americans do not elect a President, and it used to be they didn't elect Senators. But the vote for Senators was gained. Some rights have been lost, but it is not from the perspective of America ever having been a democracy. That simply never has been and never was.

There are many types of democracies and far more astute commentators than you have said differently. And as I said, it's all downhill from here. Try and enjoy the ride

 

[Shadow Wolf]

J

There are many types of democracies and far more astute commentators than you have said differently. And as I said, it's all downhill from here. Try and enjoy the ride

Do you deny historic fact? Basic political science concepts and definitions? Largely, what I have said in this thread regarding America as a democracy, commentators who say radically different don't take their job very seriously. America is not a democracy. And it isn't one, because as every US History text book worth its weight will say, the Founding Fathers saw it as hardly any better than mob rule. So Americans don't elect the President, the Electoral College does. Americans didn't elect Senators, the House members did. Voting wasn't a right for all, but property owning men because it was assumed they would be more likely to have enough of an education to be informed enough to make at least a half-arsed educated guess when they vote.

 

[Ayjaydee]

Do you deny historic fact? Basic political science concepts and definitions? Largely, what I have said in this thread regarding America as a democracy, commentators who say radically different don't take their job very seriously. America is not a democracy. And it isn't one, because as every US History text book worth its weight will say, the Founding Fathers saw it as hardly any better than mob rule. So Americans don't elect the President, the Electoral College does. Americans didn't elect Senators, the House members did. Voting wasn't a right for all, but property owning men because it was assumed they would be more likely to have enough of an education to be informed enough to make at least a half-arsed educated guess when they vote.

Lol, keep narrowing that definition all you like. The fact remains it's all over no matter what you choose to call it

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Lol, keep narrowing that definition all you like. The fact remains it's all over no matter what you choose to call it

You haven't even said how it's over. It suffered Andrew Jackson. The Red Scare. Japanese concentration camps. Rights have been stripped, corruption throughout, and always people say its the end of the world but it never is.

 

[Ayjaydee]

You haven't even said how it's over. It suffered Andrew Jackson. The Red Scare. Japanese concentration camps. Rights have been stripped, corruption throughout, and always people say its the end of the world but it never is.

America isn't over. Its view of itself is over. And over is not a discrete instant, it's a process

 

[Shadow Wolf]

America isn't over. Its view of itself is over. And over is not a discrete instant, it's a process

It's "view of itself" has even underwent some radical changes, and the process continues.

 

[Ayjaydee]

It's "view of itself" has even underwent some radical changes, and the process continues.

I agree
I hope you handle yours better than the Brits seem to be doing