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Is Islam right and everyone else wrong?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by EnhancedSpirit, Mar 25, 2005.

  1. EnhancedSpirit

    EnhancedSpirit High Priestess

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    I think I don't know the difference between a debate and a discussion. I certainly don't feel like I'm going against any belief. I ony wish to shed light on the BIG PICTURE. I guess I would like to know is DO those who practice Islam know that their way is THE ONLY WAY? Or does this religion allow for the reality that Islam might be the only way for you, but might not be so for another? ​
     
  2. Green Man

    Green Man Member

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    I can see where you're going with this line of thought.Consider this however.What if Islam's wrong?
     
  3. EnhancedSpirit

    EnhancedSpirit High Priestess

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    There is no right or wrong. It just is.
     
  4. Green Man

    Green Man Member

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    Elaborate please.
     
  5. EnhancedSpirit

    EnhancedSpirit High Priestess

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    When the lion kills the antelope, the remaining heard does not say it is wrong and the lion must be punished. There is no retaliation. No gang fights. In fact they will be drinking from the same watering hole tomorrow. When Adam and Eve ate from the preverbial tree of knowledge, we suddenly became aware of right at wrong. But we cannot see God's whole truth, so we must forget what we have learned to be true, and accept this: everything happens for a reason. 'God works in mysterious ways'

    A perfect example of how our choice of right or wrong can be mistaken is the history of the United States. What we know the truth of the people who wrote it down. And we would all agree that it is great how this nation rose up and became what it is today. Our forefathers were 'right' with what they did.
    But what if our history books had been written by the Indians. From their point of view, our forefathers were 'wrong'.
     
  6. Green Man

    Green Man Member

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    Try again without the riddles and allegories.
     
  7. Dr. Khan

    Dr. Khan Member

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    Does this mean that if those Christians who were killed by the Romans were to write history that it would be a different story.
     
  8. Dr. Khan

    Dr. Khan Member

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    May I suggest you read their testimony in Revelation 6:9-11 In chapter 16:6 it tells you of their reward.
     
  9. Feathers in Hair

    Feathers in Hair World's Tallest Hobbit

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    Nah... Without riddles and allegories, everything's more boring!
     
  10. EnhancedSpirit

    EnhancedSpirit High Priestess

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    The story would not be different, but the point of view would be.
     
  11. painted wolf

    painted wolf Grey Muzzle

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    now if they kill a Cape Buffalo then your talking a whole other deal... Cape Buffalo are very persnikity and very vengeful. They have been documented to retaliate against Lions and seem to make a sport of killing lions whenever possible. They have been known to keep Lion prides treed for more than an hour just hoping one will fall, and hoping to find cubs to gore to death.

    The big picture is highly complex. :D

    wa:do
     
  12. Green Man

    Green Man Member

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    Is atheism right and everyone else wrong?
     
  13. almifkhar

    almifkhar Active Member

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    to the orginal question i will try to answer. i would have to say that for one who was born into islam and is very strict in the followings, i think they would see islam as the only religion but they would also have to be respectful to those who followed another religion. you see the story goes that the quran was given to man as a last ditch effort for man to get it right. it is said that there will be no more prophets and no new religions after islam. in reference to the "people of the book" meaning christians and jews, it is said that they just couldn't get it right and that was the reason islam was given to the people. after all islam is not much different from christanity or juddaism. juddaism is very strict, christanity is a little more lax and islam is just simpler. in practice in mean. me as a muslim i think that what is good for me may not be good for you but i have to respect what ever religious path your on no matter what.
     
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  14. Steve

    Steve Active Member

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    Christianity is not much different? are you serious? Christianity and Islam are very differently.

    The Bible makes it clear that Jesus is the way to God and the only way.
    John 14:6 - Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
    Is this not vastly opposed to Islam?

    Also there is the whole idea of if God is just then how can he let sinful people into heaven.

    I made this point in http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10859
    Imagine this senario in a courtroom just on earth - Somone murderes somone close to you and are they are Arrested, they are taken to court to meet the judge to see that justice is served. They stand and state there defence "that was the only person i ever killed and im really sorry and just look at all the other people i havnt killed, ive obeyed the law more then ive disobeyed it" Then the judge says "well i guess your right you have obeyed the law more then you have disobeyed it" and then lets the person go free.
    Would you consider that judge to be corrupt? Did that Judge really make sure justice was served? Is that judge a good just judge?
    Keep in mind God knows everything we have done wrong and if he is just he should bring to justice all the things he knows we have done wrong. How can he tolarate sin? if he dosn't punish it just like the judge in the courtroom he is no longer Good and Just.

    The idea that our good erases our bad is illogical, if ive stolen something then not stealing somthing tomorow dosnt hide my guilt. We should do good simply because its good to do so.

    Have you been good enough to please a Holy Righteous God?
    Its simple we broke the law and justice must be served, either Jesus has paid your fine or Gods wrath remains on you.

    From alot of what i read it seems that many "religious" people seem to think that man created God, not God created man, when someone says my religion is good for me and yours is good for you its like saying my God suits me and your God suits you. The problem with this is that we dont create God, God Created us! If the 2 religions are opposed then both cant be right, so one group is serving a false god. Wont the true God be offended by those who worship the false god, wont he be offended at those who refuse to listen to the truth with open ears? The very threat of hell should be ennough for every person to at least examine weather or not "their" God is the real God. As for the people who say there is no God or hell, u better be right.

    The God of the Bible is not only Just, Holy and Righteous but also full of compassion and Mercy and Love. It is because of his love that he gave mankind a way to avoid punishment. He didnt have to give us the option, we didnt deserve what Christ did for us, yet he did it anyway.
    Romans 5:8 - But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
    If this is true dont you owe it to God to look into it with an open heart?
     
  15. john313

    john313 warrior-poet

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    the main difference is christians believe Jesus is God and Muslims believe God is God and Jesus was a prophet

    this is not opposed to Islam. Islam follows the teachings of Jesus.

    this is a silly scenario and not worthy of a refutal.

    good does not erase the bad, but it can outweigh it.

    Jesus does not pay our fines. Jesus even said each man will be judged according to his works. Jesus did not say you are free to sin because i will cover for you.

    if you are right that Christ died for us, then heaven will be no different than earth. everyone will go to heaven, except Jesus of course. with all those sins he would be bound to be the only inhabitant of hell.(of course i do not believe Jesus would be in hell). if you will notice in the Quran, each sura starts out "in the name of God, the most merciful, the most compassionate."
    John 1:18 "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him]. " a lot of people sure seem to have seen Jesus.
    [​IMG]I AM THE LORD THY GOD, THOU SHALT NOT HAVE strange gods BEFORE ME.
     
  16. Steve

    Steve Active Member

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    Id say thats a BIG difference! agreed?

    How is this not opposed to Islam? So Islam belives that it is through Jesus and ONLY Jesus that you can get to the Father? If not then its different and once again on major aspects what the Jesus taught.

    John 2:18-22 - Then the Jews demanded of him, “What miraculous sign can you show us to prove your authority to do all this?” Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.” The Jews replied, “It has taken fortysix years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?” But the temple he had spoken of was his body. After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the Scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken.

    Do you belive this? If not then how can our faiths be considered "not much different"?

    Why is this silly? Dosnt it make sense that our sense of justice is just a tiny fraction of Gods? Afterall we are made in his image. If mankind would find the judge from that senario unjust then how much more would God? To say that he will let the guilty go free without any justice being served is foolish, if mankind realises the need for justice is it smart to say a Righteous Holy God wouldnt?

    This avoids my point and has nothing to do with real justice. Just because someone has done more right then wrong dosnt make there wrongs any less wrong!

    Isaiah 53:4-6 Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed. We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.

    Does Islam agree with the book of Isaiah? If this isnt refering to Jesus then who? Who else is able to pay our fine because they dont have a fine of there own?

    Romans 3:22-24 - This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

    How did God bring redemption? Through Christ Jesus. You are right in that it dosnt make it ok to sin, all we need to do is either picture Jesus on the cross or people in Hell to get an idea of how Seriously God sees our sin.

    Not everyone will go to heaven because of what Jesus did for them.

    john 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

    Imagine this, im in a plane and know that at some point i have to jump out, ive been told about a parachute but never really belived in it and put it on, my time comes and i jump without the parachute. Just because the parachute existed dosnt mean it has any effect on those who dont regard it as worth finding and putting on.

    When Jesus was beaten and flogged then crucified this was the way he paid for our sins. Is it not ok for God to choose the punishment? What Christ went through was not pleasant. And after he had been through all this torture his final words were - "It is finished." He had paid the debt that we owed and bought our freedom with his blood. So with the debt now paid on both sides for us and him, both are able to enter heaven and escape Gods punishment for Sin.

    Isaiah 52:14 - Just as there were many who were appalled at him his appearance was so disfigured beyond that of any man and his form marred beyond human likeness

    Colossians 1:21-22 -Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation

    I honestly hope that when you stand befor God you will be considered holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation. He has made a way for that to be possible.

    Yes noone has seen God the Father, but many have seen the visible Son for "He is the image of the invisible God".

    (Gen. 17:1) – “Now when Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, "I am God Almighty ; Walk before Me, and be blameless;

    So who was it that appeared to Abram? Jesus! The image of the invisible God. The word made flesh.

    Colossians 1:15-20 - He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
     
  17. john313

    john313 warrior-poet

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    steve-
    this is a pointless arguement. we can go back and forth forever. you can have your man God and good luck with it.

    wa-salaam
     
  18. Master Vigil

    Master Vigil Well-Known Member

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    I'm only gonna say one thing, ALOT of the early christians didn't even think Jesus was god. That concept wasn't adopted as universal until the council of Nicaea. I am not sure if you agree with the catholic church, but they gave you that idea. So therefore, what some may think of as "true" christians, didn't view jesus as god either, so still not much different than islam.
     
  19. Steve

    Steve Active Member

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    Interesting, im not sure where that information comes from but even if it is true that many people in the early church didnt recognise who Jesus is and claimed to be it still by no means makes it untrue.

    Also there were people who did recognise who he was
    Then he (Jesus) said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.” Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!” - John 20:27-28
    Thomas knew who Jesus was and do you think Jesus would permit such blasphemy if it was untrue?


    “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.” Revelation 1:8
    “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.” Revelation 22:13

    In these verse's the Lord God says “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,” whats intersting is if you read on you find

    When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades. Revelation 1:17-18

    So "the First and the Last" was at one point dead? When did our Lord God suffer death? ON THE CROSS!

    If i want to find out who Jesus was i will go to the Bible not ask what a majority opionion has been especially if it contradicts what Jesus taught.
     
  20. Master Vigil

    Master Vigil Well-Known Member

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    So basically he never really said it, he just said things that if you twist around in your head, it means something it didn't originally. Gotcha.

    Oh, and yeah, read up on the council of Nicaea, and do some reading on the early christian groups. It's true. Whether or not jesus is god, was finally decided in that council. Long after he died.
     
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