Is Hell a Basic Christian Tenet?

[lunamoth]

Does a Christian need to believe in hell?

Minister Questions Hell, Loses Flock

 

[Storm]

I've never thought so.

Thanks for the article, luna.

 

[Vassal]

Well I think that if you say the Bible does not teach there is a hell that non-believers are punished in, then that brings up some obvious questions.

• If there is no hell then what is it that Jesus' death saves us from?
• If there is no hell, then does everyone go to heaven?
• Why does the Bible mention certain behaviors preventing people from entering heaven?
• Why does the Bible warn about hell so often if it doesn't exist and everyone is going to heaven?
• How was hell “prepared for the devil and his angels” if hell is only on Earth (as was stated in the video)?
• Why is faith in Jesus, repenting, and turning to God so necessary if there is no hell?

These questions could go on and on, but you get the idea. Jesus’ death and Christianity as a whole doesn’t make a whole lot of sense if there is no hell. As it says in 1 Corinthians, do not be deceived. There is a hell and if you do not have faith in Jesus and repent from your sin, you will be punished there. God is merciful and anyone who asks for forgiveness with a sincere heart, but everyone who continues in evil will be punished in hell along with the devil and his angels.

Deuteronomy 32:4 (NASB) "The Rock! His work is perfect, For all His ways are just; A God of faithfulness and without injustice, Righteous and upright is He.

Acts 20:21 (NASB) solemnly testifying to both Jews and Greeks of repentance toward God and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.

Romans 10:13 (NASB) for "Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved."

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (NASB) 9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

Galatians 5:19-21 (NASB) 19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, 21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Matthew 25:41 (NASB) "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

 

[Buttercup]

We taped that show last night and are going to watch it tonight.....right up my alley 'eh Laurie?

I will forever and I mean forever contend that there is no logical reason a benevolent, loving God would send a human to hell for eternity after living a measly 70 years with no concrete proof of his existence but a book and a very old one at that. It's insanity to believe in hell, imo.

 

[rocka21]

It's insanity to believe in hell, imo.

23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.



was Jesus insane?


we see at least 3 things here.

1. Hell is a real place.
2. there is torment there.
3. there is a flame ( or fire).

 

[rocka21]

15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.


damned to what?


dam·na·tion
1.the act of damning or the state of being damned. 2.a cause or occasion of being damned. 3.Theology. condemnation to eternal punishment as a consequence of sin.

 

[MaddLlama]

23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.



was Jesus insane?

I thought Jewish people didn't believe in hell. At least.....not in a hell that resembles what Christianity teaches.

 

[rocka21]

Does a Christian need to believe in hell?

Minister Questions Hell, Loses Flock

carton person ministered at my chruch many times and layed hands on me and gave me a prophcey many years ago.


hell, is not the only topic he changed his stance on. thats just one of many.

 

[Buttercup]

I thought Jewish people didn't believe in hell. At least.....not in a hell that resembles what Christianity teaches.

You're right...in fact hell changed quite a bit in the NT. I contend it was from the influence of the Zoroastrians while the Jews were held captive in Persia.

Sheol before Christ was not permanent. Notice how after Christ hell becomes permanent and much more awful. Something happened to change the Jewish perspective on hell and like I said, I think it was the influence of the Persians through Zoroastrianism. But, you'd have to read up on it more to be as convinced as I now am.

 

[rocka21]

Notice how after Christ hell becomes permanent and much more awful

26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.


thats not permanent?

 

[Buttercup]

26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.


thats not permanent?

Ask the Jews.....they'll explain the OT better than I will. But, I have always been under the impression that Sheol was not permanent like the NT hell.

I started a thread asking that question a year ago or so. But, feel free to start another in the Judaism section.

 

[Buttercup]

So if you haven’t trusted in Christ to save you from this punishment, then you’re going to receive it.

Thanks for the kind words. You're so encouraging.

 

[Mister Emu]

Sheol before Christ was not permanent. Notice how after Christ hell becomes permanent and much more awful. Something happened to change the Jewish perspective on hell

I have bolded a major force of change, and the main source of Christian belief...

 

[Buttercup]

Does a Christian need to believe in hell?

Minister Questions Hell, Loses Flock

To get back to your question, Laurie, I don't see how someone could be a Christian and not believe there's a hell. As has been pointed out earlier in the thread with quoted scripture, hell is a place referenced by Christ himself.......

Luke 12:4-5, "And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

Matthew 5:29-30, "And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."

Matthew 10:28, "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."


Why do you think I struggled with the whole hell issue last year? I knew that if I renounced belief in hell I may as well throw the whole bible out the window as well. The place of hell is a VERY big deal in Christianity. If you make the decision to not believe in hell, then where do you stop? What else can you believe about the NT if you can't believe words from Jesus himself?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I believe in God and Jesus his Son and in the Holy Ghost.

I believe in neither Heaven nor Hell as physical places.
Heaven is to be in the presence of God ( both in this life and the next)
Hell is to exclude your self from his presence ( here and here after)
Fire and damnation are just Parables or man's attempt to describe what this is like.

 

[Buttercup]

I believe in God and Jesus his Son and in the Holy Ghost.

I believe in neither Heaven nor Hell as physical places.
Heaven is to be in the presence of God ( both in this life and the next)
Hell is to exclude your self from his presence ( here and here after)
Fire and damnation are just Parables or man's attempt to describe what this is like.

How did you come to those conclusions for yourself, Terry? I'm still trying to find my way without Christianity because I cannot believe intellectually, emotionally nor rationally anymore in the words of the bible.

Reading the words of Christ that I posted above, hell sounds like an actual place. But, you don't think so. Would you mind explaining how you convinced yourself of that?

 

[Mister Emu]

Reading the words of Christ that I posted above, hell sounds like an actual place. But, you don't think so. Would you mind explaining how you convinced yourself of that?

I hope you don't mind if I answer,

In Eastern Othrodoxy, according to wikipedia, it is believed that both the saved and lost enter the prescence of God and that the experience is Heaven or Hell... I hope James or another EO will correct me if I am wrong...

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

How did you come to those conclusions for yourself, Terry? I'm still trying to find my way without Christianity because I cannot believe intellectually, emotionally nor rationally anymore in the words of the bible.

Reading the words of Christ that I posted above, hell sounds like an actual place. But, you don't think so. Would you mind explaining how you convinced yourself of that?

My particular version of it may be my own...?
I have spouted about it before.
I have found many Christians hold a similar view.
I see nowhere amongst Jesus teachings, that describe hell, as other than can be taken as a metaphor.
Add this to his teaching of a God of love and forgiveness.
The Idea of a physical Hell and Hell fire become unsupportable.

 

[Smoke]

Does a Christian need to believe in hell?

Many of them seem to.

• If there is no hell then what is it that Jesus' death saves us from?
• If there is no hell, then does everyone go to heaven?
• Why does the Bible mention certain behaviors preventing people from entering heaven?
• Why does the Bible warn about hell so often if it doesn't exist and everyone is going to heaven?
• How was hell “prepared for the devil and his angels” if hell is only on Earth (as was stated in the video)?
• Why is faith in Jesus, repenting, and turning to God so necessary if there is no hell?

These questions could go on and on, but you get the idea. Jesus’ death and Christianity as a whole doesn’t make a whole lot of sense if there is no hell.

Case in point. For some forms of Christianity (not the best forms, IMO), a belief in hell is a central pillar of the religion, and without it, the whole thing comes crashing down.

Eastern Orthodoxy certainly affirms a belief in hell, but it's not at all central to Orthodox theology, and Orthodoxy has no problem venerating Gregory of Nyssa, who believed that ultimately all of creation would be reconciled to God. I think hell was just baggage left over from the Zoroastrian influence on Judaism, and was seen as a good motivator.

Interestingly, Judaism has mostly shaken off a belief in hell. For most Jews, only a very few people will suffer eternally, and Gehinom is more similar to purgatory than to hell.

 

[Smoke]

God is both perfectly just because no evil deed will go unpunished,

If God is just, that's the best argument against eternal damnation. There's no way any moral person could say that eternal suffering was just punishment for anything at all that could be done in a human lifespan. Honestly, I can't understand what's going on in people's heads. A just God would at some point recognize that enough was enough. A God who thought that eternal torment was just would be an insane monster.