Is God or Religious Truth Real?

[Unity of Mankind]

But YOU were the one asking what it was, so what is your problem now?

My problem now as was true then is that you never put into context what you wrote.

Maybe if you had actually read my post, you wouldn't be asking such a stupid question. As I posted examples of this bombastic gobbledygook:

""Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh

And where is your proof "Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh" is "bombastic gobbledygook"? As I recall you have argued rules or laws are not necessary for individuals and or society. If my recollection is correct I would call that "bombastic gobbledygook"! As I have argued to you before; no rules or laws equals anarchy and the law of the jungle! It also equals cruel injustice! It justifies murder or any cruel act of barbarism you can imagine a human being committing!

 

[Unity of Mankind]

One does not control others to Greatness. One walks them toward it. One is far from helpless doing that. One does not judge, blame,hate,condemn, punish,intimidate or coerce in the process. One does not create a we and they in this process as religion and mankind do. If one does, what are they really teaching? It's certainly not Unconditional Love.

So in the meanwhile as we wait for "Unconditional Love" to be practiced by all of mankind which is far from being proved will ever happen, certainly not in the foreseeable future, if society does not punish crimes such as murder are you not justifying murder?

I believe there are rewards and punishments in both this earthly life and in the afterlife where we will have to give account to God for our misdeeds! So where is the hate? I do not wish ill toward anyone but love without justice is a cruel betrayal of love because it fails to protect innocent victims of injustice!

 

[Ancient Soul]

But YOU were the one asking what it was, so what is your problem now?

I guess that was some kind of diversionary tactic away from facing the bombastic gobbledygook writings of Bahá’u’lláh.



Look who's the deceiver now! You are another one who deceitfully edits out the part of your statements directly implying that "I" am some kind of "messenger" that you feel the need to attack to avoid facing the fact of the bombastic gobbledygook writings of Bahá’u’lláh.

So let's do a recap of the WHOLE rant of your's shall we:

"So are we to believe only you are the guide to spiritual understanding? If that is what you are claiming for yourself then I see no difference to that and what “messengers”, “prophets", etc, claim.

What true Messengers, Prophets, or as Baha’is express it, Manifestations of God, has proven historically is that all of them indelibly impacted the world around them. There are many examples such as Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, and to that list I would add Krishna and Buddha which constitute a different line of religion. What I consider a mythology or man-made gobbledygook is what I perceive coming from you! What is your proof you have indelibly impacted the world? Answer! None!"

Twist it all you want, but you claimed it, so now you own it.



Maybe if you had actually read my post, you wouldn't be asking such a stupid question. As I posted examples of this bombastic gobbledygook:

"Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh

The Revelation which, from time immemorial, hath been acclaimed as the Purpose and Promise of all the Prophets of God, and the most cherished Desire of His Messengers, hath now, by virtue of the pervasive Will of the Almighty and at His irresistible bidding, been revealed unto men. The advent of such a Revelation hath been heralded in all the sacred Scriptures. Behold how, notwithstanding such an announcement, mankind hath strayed from its path and shut out itself from its glory.

Say: O ye lovers of the One true God! Strive, that ye may truly recognize and know Him, and observe befittingly His precepts. This is a Revelation, under which, if a man shed for its sake one drop of blood, myriads of oceans will be his recompense. Take heed, O friends, that ye forfeit not so inestimable a benefit, or disregard its transcendent station. Consider the multitude of lives that have been, and are still being, sacrificed in a world deluded by a mere phantom which the vain imaginations of its peoples have conceived. Render thanks unto God, inasmuch as ye have attained unto your heart’s Desire, and been united to Him Who is the Promise of all nations. Guard ye, with the aid of the one true God—exalted be His glory—the integrity of the station which ye have attained, and cleave to that which shall promote His Cause. He, verily, enjoineth on you what is right and conducive to the exaltation of man’s station. Glorified be the All-Merciful, the Revealer of this wondrous Tablet."

****************************

Now THAT is the classic bombastic gobbledygook that is only meant to bedazzle people into thinking something clever is "in there", but there's nothing but bombastic gobbledygook.

My problem now as was true then is that you never put into context what you wrote.

And where is your proof "Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh" is "bombastic gobbledygook"? As I recall you have argued rules or laws are not necessary for individuals and or society. If my recollection is correct I would call that "bombastic gobbledygook"! As I have argued to you before; no rules or laws equals anarchy and the law of the jungle! It also equals cruel injustice! It justifies murder or any cruel act of barbarism you can imagine a human being committing!

My problem now as was true then is that you never put into context what you wrote.

And where is your proof "Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh" is "bombastic gobbledygook"? As I recall you have argued rules or laws are not necessary for individuals and or society. If my recollection is correct I would call that "bombastic gobbledygook"! As I have argued to you before; no rules or laws equals anarchy and the law of the jungle! It also equals cruel injustice! It justifies murder or any cruel act of barbarism you can imagine a human being committing!

What a splendid example of bombastic gobbledygook, your "messenger" from Satan must be so proud of you!

Well, since you asked, I'll answer despite your repeated attempts of DIVERSION away from the issue of Bahá’u’lláh's bombastic gobbledygook:

"Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh

The Revelation which, from time immemorial, hath been acclaimed as the Purpose and Promise of all the Prophets of God, and the most cherished Desire of His Messengers, hath now, by virtue of the pervasive Will of the Almighty and at His irresistible bidding, been revealed unto men. The advent of such a Revelation hath been heralded in all the sacred Scriptures. Behold how, notwithstanding such an announcement, mankind hath strayed from its path and shut out itself from its glory.

Say: O ye lovers of the One true God! Strive, that ye may truly recognize and know Him, and observe befittingly His precepts. This is a Revelation, under which, if a man shed for its sake one drop of blood, myriads of oceans will be his recompense. Take heed, O friends, that ye forfeit not so inestimable a benefit, or disregard its transcendent station. Consider the multitude of lives that have been, and are still being, sacrificed in a world deluded by a mere phantom which the vain imaginations of its peoples have conceived. Render thanks unto God, inasmuch as ye have attained unto your heart’s Desire, and been united to Him Who is the Promise of all nations. Guard ye, with the aid of the one true God—exalted be His glory—the integrity of the station which ye have attained, and cleave to that which shall promote His Cause. He, verily, enjoineth on you what is right and conducive to the exaltation of man’s station. Glorified be the All-Merciful, the Revealer of this wondrous Tablet."

*************************************

Now THAT is a perfect example of bombastic gobbledygook!

That's why you keep deceitfully editing it out of all your replies to me.

Now you can take any number of people and have them all read that gibberish, then go into separate rooms and write down what they think it all means, and every one will write down something different. All because it's entirely bombastic gobbledygook meant to bedazzle people and make them believe there's something clever "hidden" is all that gibberish, but there isn't. It's sole intent is to deceive and lead people astray into looking to this Bahá’u’lláh religion, instead of directly to God as they should be.

There is NO spiritual substance to it. Clear proof that he's no such "messenger" of any "god". WHY would any "god" have some "messenger" give such a garbled head scratching "message"?

The answer is simple, even YOU should be able to grasp it, that none of his bombastic gobbledygook writings came from any "god", but entirely out of his egotistical mind with the intent of fooling people into thinking he's something other than the deceiver he really was.

 

[Bird123]

So in the meanwhile as we wait for "Unconditional Love" to be practiced by all of mankind which is far from being proved will ever happen, certainly not in the foreseeable future, if society does not punish crimes such as murder are you not justifying murder?

I believe there are rewards and punishments in both this earthly life and in the afterlife where we will have to give account to God for our misdeeds! So where is the hate? I do not wish ill toward anyone but love without justice is a cruel betrayal of love because it fails to protect innocent victims of injustice!

If your child was a murderer, would you want your child punished or would you want your child fixed? What is more important? Punishment and payback or fixing and solving the real problems???

If someone you loved was murdered, would you rather have payback and punishment for the murderer or would you choose to have the problems solved?

Is payback really justice?

Which do you think God would choose?? Your choice shows God and the world who you are and what you need to learn.

Regardless of anyone's actions, people who murder others choose hard lessons for themselves. They will, in time, discover what their actions really mean.

Perhaps, this is a lesson for us all. Unconditional Love will always return the very best lesson one could ever hope for. The choices are within each of us to choose. For myself, there is only one viable choice. Unconditional Love. Forget anger, hate, and payback. I am going to work at solving the real problems so they will not return.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!!

 

[Unity of Mankind]

The answer is simple, even YOU should be able to grasp it, that none of his bombastic gobbledygook writings came from any "god", but entirely out of his egotistical mind with the intent of fooling people into thinking he's something other than the deceiver he really was.

In regard to your accusation in your opening assertion in this post that Baha'u'llah is Satan, if that were true, why would anyone in His place in Islamic Persia at that time in history knowingly bring on such sacrificial suffering to themselves as did in fact occur to Baha'u'llah as a result of proclaiming Himself a Manifestation of God?

Rather than going back and forth like this as we have why not spare others on this Forum from our rehashing the same things over and over again?

If you want to think Baha'u'llah is Satan without a shred of evidence except your vain imagination and ignorance of history that is your choice. However, choices in an afterlife as is true on this physical plain of existence have repercussions. If you want to roll the dice and gamble as you have been doing that is also your choice.

 

[Unity of Mankind]

If your child was a murderer, would you want your child punished or would you want your child fixed?

To begin with I would not be a permissive parent because statistically children of such parents suffer greatly from never learning to take responsibility for their actions! Rather than a child I think it would have been more instructive if you had asked the same question about an adult or even an adolescent.

In a religious context even adults committing murder can be forgiven by God, especially when they are truly remorseful. However, when it comes to the welfare of society punishment for crime in general is necessary for the protection of society. Otherwise people would feel free to abuse others in any way it occurs to them.

If someone you loved was murdered, would you rather have payback and punishment for the murderer or would you choose to have the problems solved?

First of all I do not consider punishment for crime to be payback if that is what you are saying.

Proposing an either or question when it comes to punishment for crime or fixing problems is, in my opinion, an absurd question to ask, especially in the context of justice as a principle to be guided by.

Once a person is murdered that is beyond fixing unless you can bring them back from the dead! You simply compound the problem by increasing the murder rate if you don't problem solve on a societal level. If people internalized in their heart the Ten Commandments of Moses, one of which is the forbidding of murder, that would surely fix the problem.

Perhaps that is why Baha'u'llah wrote that the chief instrument for order in the world was religion? He also wrote that the vitality of belief in God is dying out in every land and that the potency of His Revelation was the only source that could restore it.

 

[dfnj]

Is God or Religious Truth Real?

All dogmas and belief systems are built on a set of axioms or assumptions that are considered to be true without any proof. Within this context, God and religious truth exists.

God is just a word. Words represent reality and ideas.

Now if your question were slightly different, "Is the Old Testament God real?" Then I would say yes for people who hold the Old Testament God as an axiom to their dogma. Truth can only occur in the context of human language. There is no objective truth in reality. All abstractions about reality are delusions. Boundaries in reality only exist as constructs in the minds of men.

"If you want to find the secrets of the universe, think in terms of energy, frequency, and vibration." Nikola Tesla

 

[PearlSeeker]

With the average person having no true spiritual grounding, they are unable to sort out the tiny tid-bits of spiritual information from all the lies. And since most people stay in the religion they were first brainwashed with, their spiritual path will always be stuck in the ditch for their entire lifetimes.

I know what you mean. It took me several years to start thinking with my own head, research and question things. But Christian faith and church community has always been an anchor and support in my life. I'm grateful for that.

And even if you just picked one of their descriptions, now what? Would it REALLY guide you on how to ACCESS and USE your soul and it's abilities? Highly unlikely or not at all. Now I do remember looking at some Hindu or some other religious diagrams a long time ago, but nothing came even close to what a soul really looks like. Mostly because a soul is a SPHERE and not a flat CIRCLE. This is critical if one needs to see ALL of the energy circles/fields both in the front and back of the soul.

Yes. On a piece of paper and on screen everything is flat. I have seen diagrams also from the side so you can see front and back. Some people are supposed to be able to see it ... But is it really necessary to know how it looks like? Isn't more important to strengthen and balance different areas (energies) in your life (usually there are seven main areas listed). It would be easier if you would see your actual state but I think you can estimate your blockages/overactivity if you are sincere and humble.

NO! In true spiritual matters, if one really wants to get it right and spiritually evolve, there is no such a thing as "More or less" , or "Universal salvation". That's the lazy approach most people take and why they never figure anything out and get anywhere, never even get to start out on a real spiritual path. And Christianity hates the very concept of reincarnation, so that example gets kicked out right away.

If someone doesn't believe in incarnation but does believe in judgment then this person will be even more hard-working. Essential thing to know is what will remain when I die, what achievements in life will at the end be of any value and benefit, how to evolve...

Can you show me any that SHOWS people how to connect with your soul? Although they would also have some means of SHOWING people exactly what their souls ARE, so they can connect to it.

I'd rather use the word "spirit" or "ground of soul" because by soul I understand the mental component with thoughts, emotions ... What is spirit? It's the non-physical the most inner part of you, "inner sanctuary", "inner light", "divine spark", the real Self that is one with God. There are different means to connect/open to spirit like meditation, nature, music, prayer ... It's not important just to connect but to manifest this in life, how you act and treat others...

 

[Ancient Soul]

What a splendid example of bombastic gobbledygook, your "messenger" from Satan must be so proud of you!

Well, since you asked, I'll answer despite your repeated attempts of DIVERSION away from the issue of Bahá’u’lláh's bombastic gobbledygook:

"Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh

The Revelation which, from time immemorial, hath been acclaimed as the Purpose and Promise of all the Prophets of God, and the most cherished Desire of His Messengers, hath now, by virtue of the pervasive Will of the Almighty and at His irresistible bidding, been revealed unto men. The advent of such a Revelation hath been heralded in all the sacred Scriptures. Behold how, notwithstanding such an announcement, mankind hath strayed from its path and shut out itself from its glory.

Say: O ye lovers of the One true God! Strive, that ye may truly recognize and know Him, and observe befittingly His precepts. This is a Revelation, under which, if a man shed for its sake one drop of blood, myriads of oceans will be his recompense. Take heed, O friends, that ye forfeit not so inestimable a benefit, or disregard its transcendent station. Consider the multitude of lives that have been, and are still being, sacrificed in a world deluded by a mere phantom which the vain imaginations of its peoples have conceived. Render thanks unto God, inasmuch as ye have attained unto your heart’s Desire, and been united to Him Who is the Promise of all nations. Guard ye, with the aid of the one true God—exalted be His glory—the integrity of the station which ye have attained, and cleave to that which shall promote His Cause. He, verily, enjoineth on you what is right and conducive to the exaltation of man’s station. Glorified be the All-Merciful, the Revealer of this wondrous Tablet."

*************************************

Now THAT is a perfect example of bombastic gobbledygook!

That's why you keep deceitfully editing it out of all your replies to me.

Now you can take any number of people and have them all read that gibberish, then go into separate rooms and write down what they think it all means, and every one will write down something different. All because it's entirely bombastic gobbledygook meant to bedazzle people and make them believe there's something clever "hidden" is all that gibberish, but there isn't. It's sole intent is to deceive and lead people astray into looking to this Bahá’u’lláh religion, instead of directly to God as they should be.

There is NO spiritual substance to it. Clear proof that he's no such "messenger" of any "god". WHY would any "god" have some "messenger" give such a garbled head scratching "message"?

The answer is simple, even YOU should be able to grasp it, that none of his bombastic gobbledygook writings came from any "god", but entirely out of his egotistical mind with the intent of fooling people into thinking he's something other than the deceiver he really was.

In regard to your accusation in your opening assertion in this post that Baha'u'llah is Satan, if that were true, why would anyone in His place in Islamic Persia at that time in history knowingly bring on such sacrificial suffering to themselves as did in fact occur to Baha'u'llah as a result of proclaiming Himself a Manifestation of God?

Rather than going back and forth like this as we have why not spare others on this Forum from our rehashing the same things over and over again?

If you want to think Baha'u'llah is Satan without a shred of evidence except your vain imagination and ignorance of history that is your choice. However, choices in an afterlife as is true on this physical plain of existence have repercussions. If you want to roll the dice and gamble as you have been doing that is also your choice.

Geez...

ALWAYS with your straw man replies of AVOIDANCE!!!

Never mind your AVOIDANCE, just stick to the main issue of what I posted:

"Well, since you asked, I'll answer despite your repeated attempts of DIVERSION away from the issue of Bahá’u’lláh's bombastic gobbledygook:

"Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh

The Revelation which, from time immemorial, hath been acclaimed as the Purpose and Promise of all the Prophets of God, and the most cherished Desire of His Messengers, hath now, by virtue of the pervasive Will of the Almighty and at His irresistible bidding, been revealed unto men. The advent of such a Revelation hath been heralded in all the sacred Scriptures. Behold how, notwithstanding such an announcement, mankind hath strayed from its path and shut out itself from its glory.

Say: O ye lovers of the One true God! Strive, that ye may truly recognize and know Him, and observe befittingly His precepts. This is a Revelation, under which, if a man shed for its sake one drop of blood, myriads of oceans will be his recompense. Take heed, O friends, that ye forfeit not so inestimable a benefit, or disregard its transcendent station. Consider the multitude of lives that have been, and are still being, sacrificed in a world deluded by a mere phantom which the vain imaginations of its peoples have conceived. Render thanks unto God, inasmuch as ye have attained unto your heart’s Desire, and been united to Him Who is the Promise of all nations. Guard ye, with the aid of the one true God—exalted be His glory—the integrity of the station which ye have attained, and cleave to that which shall promote His Cause. He, verily, enjoineth on you what is right and conducive to the exaltation of man’s station. Glorified be the All-Merciful, the Revealer of this wondrous Tablet."

*************************************

Now THAT is a perfect example of bombastic gobbledygook!

That's why you keep deceitfully editing it out of all your replies to me.

Now you can take any number of people and have them all read that gibberish, then go into separate rooms and write down what they think it all means, and every one will write down something different. All because it's entirely bombastic gobbledygook meant to bedazzle people and make them believe there's something clever "hidden" is all that gibberish, but there isn't. It's sole intent is to deceive and lead people astray into looking to this Bahá’u’lláh religion, instead of directly to God as they should be.

There is NO spiritual substance to it. Clear proof that he's no such "messenger" of any "god". WHY would any "god" have some "messenger" give such a garbled head scratching "message"?

The answer is simple, even YOU should be able to grasp it, that none of his bombastic gobbledygook writings came from any "god", but entirely out of his egotistical mind with the intent of fooling people into thinking he's something other than the deceiver he really was."

****************************************

Others are watching, so no more spazing out and/or tactics of AVOIDANCE, stick to this issue and honestly reply to that and that ONLY.

 

[Ancient Soul]

That could be any number of things causing your searches to fail. Use of a Script Blocker, not allowing cookies, ad blocker, incompatible browser, firewall, etc...



Sure, scattered thru-out all the thousands of man made religions are tiny tid-bits of spiritual terms, but they rarely explain much, if anything, about any of them. And if they do try explaining any spiritual matter, there's a high probability that it's all made up, false, lies. With the average person having no true spiritual grounding, they are unable to sort out the tiny tid-bits of spiritual information from all the lies. And since most people stay in the religion they were first brainwashed with, their spiritual path will always be stuck in the ditch for their entire lifetimes.

Now take your above examples. How is anyone ever going to sort out which are true, and which are false?

And even if they did stumble upon one of the true spiritual "truths" or half-"truths" in one religion, then what? It will only be a very limited piece of the puzzle, with only a limited understanding of what it means. As the carnal mind will never be able to DO anything with it because of it's inability to comprehend the full scope of ANY true spiritual matter.

Let's take your examples and I'll try explaining what I mean:

"/... /a sphere of energy that extends way beyond the human body. Within it are smaller circles of energy that can be combined to accomplish all the tasks required for the soul to function."
--> Well known in New Age, Hinduism etc.: aura, energy body, energy centers (chakras).

Now I haven't bothered to go examining all of their descriptions of what their "soul" constructs are, but how is one to determine which one, if any, is right?

And even if you just picked one of their descriptions, now what? Would it REALLY guide you on how to ACCESS and USE your soul and it's abilities? Highly unlikely or not at all. Now I do remember looking at some Hindu or some other religious diagrams a long time ago, but nothing came even close to what a soul really looks like. Mostly because a soul is a SPHERE and not a flat CIRCLE. This is critical if one needs to see ALL of the energy circles/fields both in the front and back of the soul.

Your next examples:

"[Human soul] will spend as many physical lifetimes as required until it has spiritually evolved enough to pass God's judgment and enter the spiritual realm/universe. From then on the soul will exist as a purely spiritual entity that will continue to evolve thru-out all eternity and take on ever greater roles in helping God with his plan for ALL souls."
--> More or less reincarnation in New Age, Hinduism, Jewish Kabbalah.
--> Universal salvation and "harvest" /judgement in Christianity.
Note: some sources say that body-mind-spirits (in contrast to angels) always evolve in some kind of body."

NO! In true spiritual matters, if one really wants to get it right and spiritually evolve, there is no such a thing as "More or less" , or "Universal salvation". That's the lazy approach most people take and why they never figure anything out and get anywhere, never even get to start out on a real spiritual path. And Christianity hates the very concept of reincarnation, so that example gets kicked out right away. Then on the last one you gave:

"Note: some sources say that body-mind-spirits (in contrast to angels) always evolve in some kind of body."

That's so vague nobody could get even an inkling of what that's all about. One first has to come to an understanding of how one's soul is to spiritually evolve after they pass God's judgment and get to enter the spiritual realm/universe/Heaven, and then they will see that there's no such a thing as "angels", "demons", deities, etc, as they are ALL just SOULS at different levels of their spiritual evolution.

Next example you gave:

"Everyone has a direct connection to God.
--> This is known in mysticism in every theist religion. It is also generally known as the conscience.

So?

What does this DO to help anyone?

Can you show me any that SHOWS people how to connect with your soul? Although they would also have some means of SHOWING people exactly what their souls ARE, so they can connect to it.

Last example:

""God is purely SPIRITUAL in nature."
--> "God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth." (John 4:24)

Again, so?

Does that give anyone a good understanding of the vastness and power of the True God?

THAT is the best MAN can do to explain the Christian "god" out of the whole bible?

Seriously, everybody throw out the bathwater/religions and have not the slightest worry about throwing any symbolic "baby" out along with it, it's ALL just wastewater that needs to be thrown out.

I know what you mean. It took me several years to start thinking with my own head, research and question things. But Christian faith and church community has always been an anchor and support in my life. I'm grateful for that.



Yes. On a piece of paper and on screen everything is flat. I have seen diagrams also from the side so you can see front and back. Some people are supposed to be able to see it ... But is it really necessary to know how it looks like? Isn't more important to strengthen and balance different areas (energies) in your life (usually there are seven main areas listed). It would be easier if you would see your actual state but I think you can estimate your blockages/overactivity if you are sincere and humble.



If someone doesn't believe in incarnation but does believe in judgment then this person will be even more hard-working. Essential thing to know is what will remain when I die, what achievements in life will at the end be of any value and benefit, how to evolve...


I'd rather use the word "spirit" or "ground of soul" because by soul I understand the mental component with thoughts, emotions ... What is spirit? It's the non-physical the most inner part of you, "inner sanctuary", "inner light", "divine spark", the real Self that is one with God. There are different means to connect/open to spirit like meditation, nature, music, prayer ... It's not important just to connect but to manifest this in life, how you act and treat others...

You totally missed the whole point I was trying to make about the failure of ALL religions.

I think you miss-read my post from more of a defensive perspective. My post wasn't intended to invoke that kind of response. It was just a statement of WHY the limited usage of mere words of "soul" "God", "reincarnation", "connection to God", etc, isn't enough to help anyone truly understand the full scope of true spiritual matters.

Now the thread of the written conversations between us started with you asking me about a comment I made about "God showing me", which is too vast in scope to ever write it all down. So since you weren't any more specific than that, I suggested you search thru my posts to find those where I commented upon some of the basics "God had shown me". So after trying to do that, you came back defending religions by stating how they MENTION some of the things I previously posted about. So I shouldn't be so hard on them.

So since you didn't get what I was saying, lets go back to your question of:

"Anyway, I did find something but all things are already known from religious and philosophical teachings. Why do you dismiss these teachings then? "

Because different religions use the terms "soul", "God", "reincarnation", "having a direct connection to God", etc, it does not mean anything in itself, as nobody can DO anything with any of it. (Go back and re-read my previous post for more details.) That's because ALL religions were written by spiritually clueless MEN who never really have any true spiritual answers to give anyone. All they ever want is to have people look to THEM for answers instead of to GOD.

And so ALL religions are designed to break people spiritually and mentally by blocking their own connection to their soul and it's direct connection to God. Whereas, not only have I kept my connection to my soul, and it's direct connection to God, but even strengthened it over the years. So God has given me a deep and vast understanding of these topics and many more. All of which others could have also if they were not left spiritually and mentally broken by religions.

Now please don't take offense as these statements you made are things you picked up from religions, as I use them as examples of what I am trying to say:

"If someone doesn't believe in incarnation but does believe in judgment then this person will be even more hard-working. Essential thing to know is what will remain when I die, what achievements in life will at the end be of any value and benefit, how to evolve..."

Now this is what religions have given you, false and conflicting information. For if one doesn't fully well know the purpose of reincarnation as well as all the other true spiritual matters, they will not get to pass God's judgment, period. And if they are only "hard working" (Did you mean "good works"?) because of the Christian consequences of failing their evil "god's judgment", then it doesn't mean a damn thing. As "good works" only merit as being honest when they are done WILLINGLY to help others out of true empathy and compassion and no other reason.

Now THAT is the BIG difference between trying to figure it all out thru man made religions, and failing, and my getting it all completely RIGHT because I know how to access and use my soul's direct connection to God.

 

[Trailblazer]

Now THAT is the BIG difference between trying to figure it all out thru man made religions, and failing, and my getting it all completely RIGHT because I know how to access and use my soul's direct connection to God.

On what basis are all of us on this forum supposed to BELIEVE that all the great world religions got it wrong and you got it all completely RIGHT?

What is your PROOF that you got it all completely RIGHT?

What is your PROOF that your soul had a direct connection to God?

 

[Bird123]

To begin with I would not be a permissive parent because statistically children of such parents suffer greatly from never learning to take responsibility for their actions! Rather than a child I think it would have been more instructive if you had asked the same question about an adult or even an adolescent.

In a religious context even adults committing murder can be forgiven by God, especially when they are truly remorseful. However, when it comes to the welfare of society punishment for crime in general is necessary for the protection of society. Otherwise people would feel free to abuse others in any way it occurs to them.

First of all I do not consider punishment for crime to be payback if that is what you are saying.

Proposing an either or question when it comes to punishment for crime or fixing problems is, in my opinion, an absurd question to ask, especially in the context of justice as a principle to be guided by.

Once a person is murdered that is beyond fixing unless you can bring them back from the dead! You simply compound the problem by increasing the murder rate if you don't problem solve on a societal level. If people internalized in their heart the Ten Commandments of Moses, one of which is the forbidding of murder, that would surely fix the problem.

Perhaps that is why Baha'u'llah wrote that the chief instrument for order in the world was religion? He also wrote that the vitality of belief in God is dying out in every land and that the potency of His Revelation was the only source that could restore it.

I see you avoided answering those questions. They are important questions to show you what you value. It doesn't seem you value all the kids the most. Has religion taught you we and they??

Has payback solved anything? Has it slowed the murder rate? Has your preaching murder is wrong stopped it. I'm afraid not!!

Society might make some victims feel better with payback, however how much is society doing to Discover the causes and working on the prevention?

In time, murderers will learn, however how much quicker could it be with effort from everyone?

Religion values Blame. They will tell you everything would be different if everyone became followers. They do want followers. Religion could not exist without followers.

In reality, We are all Living our lessons. Until people learn all sides, they will never make the Best choices. It would be nice if more were pointed in the right direction instead of teaching them all those petty things mankind holds so dear.

In a multilevel classroom, one sees others learning lessons one has already learned. That is no excuse to Hate, Hurt or demand payback. Unconditional Love always does what is Best for the other. What is really best for that learning student?

Remember, the only way to get rid of a problem is to Solve it. That will take more than blind beliefs. Discovery takes work!!

That is what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Ancient Soul]

On what basis are all of us on this forum supposed to BELIEVE that all the great world religions got it wrong and you got it all completely RIGHT?

What is your PROOF that you got it all completely RIGHT?

What is your PROOF that your soul had a direct connection to God?

Nice dodge!

This is just one of the tactics Christians pull all the time. When you cannot provide any answers/proof to my challenge, you run away while making an arrogant condemnation to try saving face.

Now everyone reading these posts, THIS is the simple challenge that is being AVOIDED:

"Funny how ALL of these so called messengers always speak/write using bombastic gobbledygook meant to bedazzle people but completely lack any true spiritual substance.

True spiritual matters are about:

God, his true spiritual nature, laws, judgment process, and plan for all souls.

One's soul, what is it really?

The spiritual realm/universe.

The physical realm/universe.

Why are the spiritual realm and physical realm separate?

What will the "afterlife" be like?

There's way more, but all amounting to the great question of the WHY of it all, and your place in all of it, for what purpose?

Now cry all you want, but you will find more straight answers on some of those topics in my posts than you will NEVER get from studying your "messenger's" gobbledygook for a lifetime."

*********************************
So here's your chance. Go and get me any passages from your Baha'u'lla "messenger" that you think answers/describes those matters and we'll see if it's really any clear and concise answers/descriptions, or just bombastic gobbledygook meant to bedazzle people.

 

[Ancient Soul]

To begin with I would not be a permissive parent because statistically children of such parents suffer greatly from never learning to take responsibility for their actions! Rather than a child I think it would have been more instructive if you had asked the same question about an adult or even an adolescent.

In a religious context even adults committing murder can be forgiven by God, especially when they are truly remorseful. However, when it comes to the welfare of society punishment for crime in general is necessary for the protection of society. Otherwise people would feel free to abuse others in any way it occurs to them.

First of all I do not consider punishment for crime to be payback if that is what you are saying.

Proposing an either or question when it comes to punishment for crime or fixing problems is, in my opinion, an absurd question to ask, especially in the context of justice as a principle to be guided by.

Once a person is murdered that is beyond fixing unless you can bring them back from the dead! You simply compound the problem by increasing the murder rate if you don't problem solve on a societal level. If people internalized in their heart the Ten Commandments of Moses, one of which is the forbidding of murder, that would surely fix the problem.

Perhaps that is why Baha'u'llah wrote that the chief instrument for order in the world was religion? He also wrote that the vitality of belief in God is dying out in every land and that the potency of His Revelation was the only source that could restore it.

That's ridiculous!

The U.S. is about 85% Christian who all know the 10 Commandments, so are you claiming that all the murders and other crimes are being caused by the measly 15% of NON-Christians? Ha, ha, ha... I don't think so! I cannot believe you made such a baseless claim.

And thanks for proving a point I previously made, that ALL religions have some form of exclusiveness with your other baseless claim of:

"Perhaps that is why Baha'u'llah wrote that the chief instrument for order in the world was religion? He also wrote that the vitality of belief in God is dying out in every land and that the potency of His Revelation was the only source that could restore it."

Sure the "ONLY ONE", that's what ALL religions claim, that THEIR religion is better than anybody else's.

 

[CG Didymus]

To be honest before I investigated the Baha’i Faith and became a Baha’i I was an agnostic despite feeling a desire to believe in Christianity.

What always stopped me cold from believing in Christianity were nonsensical doctrinal beliefs such as “Original Sin” or in Roman Catholicism the “Eucharist” when a priest allegedly changes bread and wine literally into the flesh and blood of Jesus and that one was supposed to derive a benefit of some sort by consuming it! When it came to other religions there were so many and even within those there were disagreements and disunity.

However, I came to accept a very fundamental Baha’i principle in the “Oneness of God, the Oneness of religion, and the Oneness of mankind.” In other words I came to see religion as a divine process which occurs whenever God communicates through God-appointed Messengers, Prophets, or as Baha’is sometimes refer to them, Manifestations of God such as through a Moses, a Jesus, or a Mohammad. Baha’is believe Baha’u’llah is only the latest one and that in the future there will always be more.

Lastly, my personal view of religion as a process is that it must have pragmatic use for people on earth. If religion is valid then in my personal view it must be timely for the changing circumstances of human life, and what is most need now is world unity. It also must be shorn of all superstitions. So when religion meets certain criteria I think it has the potential to carry forward an ever advancing civilization. Without true religion’s bolstering influence, however, civilization’s very existence is threatened in ways I see occurring today.

Sorry if I rambled.

What you're saying about many forms of Christianity is exactly the point. The beliefs that they come up with and how they define who God is... are wrong. Even things that seem clear in the Bible and the NT, like Satan and the resurrection and ascension of Jesus, Baha'is say are wrong. But, really, when according to what Baha'is believe, when was Christianity ever right?

So with this wrong information what was the "process" we ended up with? One of them was to "unite" a good part of the world as Christians. Only problem was that it was forced on the people of the world by the invading European colonial powers. Those missionaries outlawed and banned the religion of those people and taught them Jesus was God? But, I guess, the process of spreading Christianity was timely. The Europeans needed the land and they needed the people to work for them.

But, to be fair, were those religions of the different people that Christians converted real? Were their Gods real? I don't think one Baha'is has answered me on that. I always use the Aztecs as an example. They had a great civilization and empire. But they sacrificed humans to their God. I hope you don't think that God and that religion was real.

 

[Trailblazer]

Now everyone reading these posts, THIS is the simple challenge that is being AVOIDED:

Now everyone reading these posts, THIS is the simple challenge that is being AVOIDED:

Trailblazer said to Ancient Soul: On what basis are all of us on this forum supposed to BELIEVE that all the great world religions got it wrong and you got it all completely RIGHT?

What is your PROOF that you got it all completely RIGHT?

What is your PROOF that your soul had a direct connection to God?

So here's your chance.

 

[Trailblazer]

This is just one of the tactics Christians pull all the time. When you cannot provide any answers/proof to my challenge, you run away while making an arrogant condemnation to try saving face.

I made no arrogant condemnation. Everyone but you can see that all I did was ask a few questions in direct response to your statement that you got it all "completely right."

Ancient Soul said:
Now THAT is the BIG difference between trying to figure it all out thru man made religions, and failing, and my getting it all completely RIGHT because I know how to access and use my soul's direct connection to God.

Trailblazer asked:
On what basis are all of us on this forum supposed to BELIEVE that all the great world religions got it wrong and you got it all completely RIGHT?

What is your PROOF that you got it all completely RIGHT?

What is your PROOF that your soul had a direct connection to God?

 

[PearlSeeker]

So since you didn't get what I was saying, lets go back to your question of:

"Anyway, I did find something but all things are already known from religious and philosophical teachings. Why do you dismiss these teachings then? "

Because different religions use the terms "soul", "God", "reincarnation", "having a direct connection to God", etc, it does not mean anything in itself, as nobody can DO anything with any of it. (Go back and re-read my previous post for more details.) That's because ALL religions were written by spiritually clueless MEN who never really have any true spiritual answers to give anyone. All they ever want is to have people look to THEM for answers instead of to GOD.

And so ALL religions are designed to break people spiritually and mentally by blocking their own connection to their soul and it's direct connection to God. Whereas, not only have I kept my connection to my soul, and it's direct connection to God, but even strengthened it over the years. So God has given me a deep and vast understanding of these topics and many more. All of which others could have also if they were not left spiritually and mentally broken by religions.

Religions didn't start when they were written. They started when people started asking spiritual questions. A natural step in evolution. Even if religions are as you say they can make you aware of spiritual longing and be a TRIGGER/CATALYST for personal seeking. I agree we should turn to God for answers and without this personal openess everything else is nothing. But why do it alone? Aren't many on the same journey? And weren't many before? Why not join forces and support each other? Why not check what was revealed to others? Why not share with all who seek?

Now this is what religions have given you, false and conflicting information. For if one doesn't fully well know the purpose of reincarnation as well as all the other true spiritual matters, they will not get to pass God's judgment, period. And if they are only "hard working" (Did you mean "good works"?) because of the Christian consequences of failing their evil "god's judgment", then it doesn't mean a damn thing. As "good works" only merit as being honest when they are done WILLINGLY to help others out of true empathy and compassion and no other reason.

It wasn't religion that taught me how belief in one incarnation and God's judgement would affect one's life. I'm just using my reason, intuition, experience... I totally agree what you said about good works.

I said: "Essential thing to know is what will remain when I die, what achievements in life will at the end be of any value and benefit, how to evolve..." Isn't this knowing the purpose of incarnation?

What do you think about what I said about spirit and access to spirit?

 

[Muffled]

We are free to believe as we wish. But what matters is how what we choose to believe, effects us, and effects those around us, through us.

I believe for a Christian that doesn't matter in the long run.

 

[Muffled]

Geez...

Don't try using deception on me. You stated:

"The following are excerpts from a Tablet of Baha'u'llah to Kaiser Wilhelm I of Germany: "O king of Berlin! Give ear unto the Voice calling from this manifest Temple: Verily, there is none other God but Me, the Everlasting, the Peerless, the Ancient of Days. Take heed lest pride debar thee from recognizing the Dayspring of Divine Revelation, lest earthly desires shut thee out, as by a veil, from the Lord of the Throne above and of the earth below. Thus counselleth thee the Pen of the Most High . . . O banks of the Rhine! We have seen you covered with gore, inasmuch as the swords of retribution were drawn against you; and you shall have another turn. And We hear the lamentations of Berlin, though she be today in conspicuous glory." And it came to pass that, indeed, Berlin was covered in gore in both World Wars I and II."

Now there it is as plain as day. He was writing to Kaiser Wilhelm I of Germany and said "O king of Berlin!" and later "inasmuch as the swords of retribution were drawn against you". So he was addressing Kaiser Wilhelm I of Germany and nobody else. So the threat would have to be carried out within the lifetime of Kaiser Wilhelm I of Germany for it to fulfilled prophecy. It wasn't.

The same for jesus, ALL of his prophecies were to be fulfilled within the lifetime of his direct disciples. They weren't.

I believe there is no statement that all of the prophecies of Jesus have to be fulfilled in His lifetime.