Is God a Mystery that Will Never be Solved?

[Unveiled Artist]

What is our course? What are we being prepared for that we are sent here to learn lessons with a physical body only to discard it?

Yes. We learn from our actions. Our actions predict where we are reborn the next. The next is just another life of suffering not bliss (death doesnt mean we get out of bliss as long as we are attached to life we would not be comfortable with death.

Is that all our destiny is to live and die or reach some sort of personal bliss? All this set up just for that?

Live, die, and not to be reborn. I was listening to a Dharma talk and the Tibetan nun mentioned if we were born in perfect bliss we would not want to practice The Dharma thereby being reborn. If the opposite, we wouldnt be in a right situation to practice The Dharma. So the only "precious human life" we have is this life not our past and not our future. Our present.

We are told we will traverse many worlds after this one gaining more knowledge and becoming greater.

Many worlds? What other worlds? The bible only teaches going to heaven or hell not mutiple worlds. The Buddha doesnt teach reach god but reach no attachment to this life And the next.

Let’s say for arguments sake we are all conceived at conception in this world right? When we reach or are born into the next world aren’t we then ‘pre existent souls’ as we were already born here?

I like the Tibetan explanation of not having a soul but we are Strings of Being instead. Not permenent but every changing based on our actions. No attachments: our string of being isnt reborn to other living beings.

So, we dont have a former self but one self that is only here because our attachment nothing more.

Yep. But not permenent. All changing. The purpose is to have no attachment not find bliss in another form of attachment.

Now how many worlds did the Manifestations traverse before they were prepared for this one? We don’t know. Does each of us have some great purpose that will unfold as we pass through the many worlds of God? Very likely. Is it revealed to us? Usually not.

Thats one weird reason I wonder why you all talk of your beliefs as facts when you dont know.

We might not know now what that purpose is but I think it’s safe to say we have an enormous glorious destiny ahead of us. In another world after learning so many lessons you might become a Da Vinci or some other great soul that renders wonderful service to that world whatever it may be.

Our purpose is here. We can observe it through our actions, attachments, and involvement here. Basically everything. I love divinity. God is a stretch though.

We are told that there are many worlds apart from this one with Manifestations. Where do they come from? God has obviously chosen them like He did Christ or Baha’u’llah so our greatness, although not yet revealed to us may unfold in the course of time.

Who knows. To me it just a belief, not something I can test and see in everyday life.

So we can become greater beings from our own efforts but as far as I know Manifestation can only be appointed and selected by God.

but the time gap isnt that long ago. What happened?

I believe that when we are ready, our greatness

But what is true greatness? In my opinion it’s the ability to be humble and self effaced before both God and man. When we reach that level of spirituality that we become as nothing then we are truly great.

Which is odd because greatness wasnt questioned during bahaullah day but it is now.

So our goal in life should be to become the embodiment of nothingness. Empty of self. Perfectly humble.

What does that mean to you? In buddhism this has a very distinct meaning than the general view of nonattachment.

This is just my own idea. A lot of the concepts come from our Writings. I’m just speculating that’s all. I really don’t know anything for sur

Shrugs. I see The Dharma in eveyday life. So, instead of struggling to kmow since Im learning new things daily its a struggle to understand what I know is true In Relation to my life. I know The Dharma is true. I see it etc. Discipline and application is totally different story.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Yes. We learn from our actions. Our actions predict where we are reborn the next. The next is just another life of suffering not bliss (death doesnt mean we get out of bliss as long as we are attaches to life we would not be comfortable with death.


Life, die, and not to be reborn. I was listening to a Dharma talk and the Tibetan nun mentioned if we were born in perfect bliss we would not want to practice The Dharma thereby being reborn. If the opposite, we wouldnt be in a right situation to practice The Dharma. So the only "precious human life" we have is this life not our past and not our future. Our present.



Many worlds? What other worlds? The bible only teaches going to heaven or hell not mutiple worlds. The Buddha doesnt teach reach god but reach no attachment to this life And the next.



I like the Tibetan explanation of not having a soul but we are Strings of Being instead. Not permenent but every changing based on our actions. No attachments, string of being isnt reborn to other living beings.

Yep. But not permenent. All changing. The purpose is to have no attachment not find bliss in another form of attachment.



Thats one weird reason Inwondernwhy you all talk of your beliefs as facts when you dont know.



Our purpose is here. We can observe it through our actions, attachments, and involvement here. Basically everything. I love divinity. God is a stretch though.


Who knows. To me it just a belief. Not something I can test and see in eveyday life.

but the time gap isnt that long ago. What happened?



Which is odd because greatness wasnt questioned during bahaullah day but it is now.

What does that mean to you? In buddhism this has a very distinct meaning than the general view of nonattachment.



Shrugs. I see The Dharma in eveyday life. So, instead of struggling to kmow since Im learning new things daily its a struggle to understand what I know is true In Relation to my life. I know The Dharma is true. I see it etc. Discipline and application is totally different story.

As far as other worlds there is no mention in the Holy Books that there is only one world after this life. the Bhagavad- Gita as well as the Baha’i Writings speaks of other worlds after we die not just one.

Ch 14

When one dies after doing Great & Good Karmas & establishsed in the mode of goodness, he attains to the pure higher planets of the great sages."

To me being selfless or becoming nothing means that the ego is no longer controlling and directing my decisions but my spiritual nature is the boss so to speak.

We don’t know everything Christ said. Not every word He uttered was recorded and He could have mentioned that there were many worlds indirectly when He said .....

John 14:2

In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Trying to explain other worlds to shepherds and very simple people would have been very difficult so Jesus had to use parables and stories.

Mansions in the above passage could have been Christ’s way of trying to relate to the people of that time that God had more than just one place or heaven or world.

So it is a concept that is taught in other religions if we examine their scriptures closely.

Again, in the Quran we have clear mention of other worlds of God.

So Hinduism, Islam, Bábí, Baha’i Mention other worlds. What about Buddhism?

Quran 45:36

praise be to Allah, Lord of the heavens and Lord of the earth, the Lord of the Worlds.

Buddha spoke of ‘thousands of world systems’ where ‘beings reside’

The Buddha once explaining the world system said, ” Monks, as far as sun and moon revolve and illuminate all directions by their radiance, so far does the thousand-fold world system extend. And in that thousand-fold world system, there are thousand moons, a thousand suns, inhabited planets…. This thousand-fold world system is called culanikā-loka-dhātu or Minor World-System, which is the smallest unit in the universe (But all these change takes place, transformation takes place. When seeing this the instructed noble disciple is disenchanted, dispassion..)

So the concept of countless worlds after this one is not all that far fetched when one studies closely the allusions made by the world scriptures to innumerable worlds.

 

[osgart]

Why do you suppose you are without eternal life now?

To me it's a distinct possibility that the material world drives the spirit world, and ceasing to exist is possible.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The Buddha means many lifetimes on this earth not worlds separate from it. Different rebirths in which each realm is a different state of mind rather tha different places. For example, in some traditions the hungry ghost realm just means in a being unable to receive and practice Dharma. In heavenly realms we are able to but have too much bliss to want to.

As far as other worlds there is no mention in the Holy Books that there is only one world after this life. the Bhagavad- Gita as well as the Baha’i Writings speaks of other worlds after we die not just one.

Thr only holy books that mention rebirth in one way or another is Hinduism and Buddhism. I think latterday saints have something close. Dont quote me.

In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

You see symbolism everywhere else but here. Its a analogy of rank and authority of god by explaining many possions not capible of man to own. Its shows power and role not realms and worlds.

Mansions in the above passage could have been Christ’s way of trying to relate to the people of that time that God had more than just one place or heaven or world.

No. Just one place. Revelations have lot of alogory to explain the beauty of heaven.

 

[godnotgod]

To me it's a distinct possibility that the material world drives the spirit world, and ceasing to exist is possible.

Your premise seems to revolve around the notion that there exists a distinction between what you term the 'material' and the 'spiritual' worlds. But exactly where does this distinction lie? And where does the distinction lie between the 'eternal' life, and the 'non-eternal' life, as regards your desire to have eternal life?

 

[osgart]

Your premise seems to revolve around the notion that there exists a distinction between what you term the 'material' and the 'spiritual' worlds. But exactly where does this distinction lie? And where does the distinction lie between the 'eternal' life, and the 'non-eternal' life, as regards your desire to have eternal life?

The distinction is in the properties of the forms existence takes on. Perhaps it is all a whole with different functions and parts.

I will something into action and it happens at my command. I can't will anyone else's body, just my own. I have to make distinctions. Why? They are real.

 

[godnotgod]

So our goal in life should be to become the embodiment of nothingness. Empty of self.
.

Ironically, any efforts to become empty of self will only lead to nurturing more self, because the the self is empty of self-nature. You can't rid yourself of something that doesn't exist to begin with. All you can really do is to nurture an insight which will allow you to see the illusory nature of the self; to pierce the facade, so to speak.


"We live in illusion and the appearance of things. There is a reality. We are that reality. When you understand this, you see that you are nothing, and being nothing, you are everything. That is all."

Kalu Rinpoche

 

[godnotgod]

The distinction is in the properties of the forms existence takes on. Perhaps it is all a whole with different functions and parts.

I will something into action and it happens at my command. I can't will anyone else's body, just my own. I have to make distinctions. Why? They are real.

And yet, there is always the unexpected that occurs spontaneously, without our control. While asleep, your heart beats, you breath, you digest your food, all without conscious control. And while these are distinctions, whether willed or not, they all work together as a single entity. The heart pumps the blood that carries the oxygen from the lungs to the brain so the brain can dictate bodily functions, etc.

Each snowflake exhibits unique and distinct patterns, but all are universally made of water.

Each human is somewhat different than all the other humans, but we all have the same basic consciousness by which we navigate our inner and outer world.

As you cannot separate water from each snowflake, you cannot separate that which is form from that which is a universally formless source. IOW, how can you be a separate non-eternal form when your source is the eternal itself? The form comes and goes, but it's source is always the same; always present. We don't see it because our attention is captured by the foreground of life, while ignoring the background, or source, of the foreground.

edit: The point I was trying to make is that the distinction you maintain as it pertains to the notions of 'material' vs. 'spiritual' is both a duality and one held only in the mind. There exists no such distinction in Reality.

 

[osgart]

And yet, there is always the unexpected that occurs spontaneously, without our control. While asleep, your heart beats, you breath, you digest your food, all without conscious control. And while these are distinctions, whether willed or not, they all work together as a single entity. The heart pumps the blood that carries the oxygen from the lungs to the brain so the brain can dictate bodily functions, etc.

Each snowflake exhibits unique and distinct patterns, but all are universally made of water.

Each human is somewhat different than all the other humans, but we all have the same basic consciousness by which we navigate our inner and outer world.

As you cannot separate water from each snowflake, you cannot separate that which is form from that which is a universally formless source. IOW, how can you be a separate non-eternal form when your source is the eternal itself? The form comes and goes, but it's source is always the same; always present. We don't see it because our attention is captured by the foreground of life, while ignoring the background, or source, of the foreground.

Are you a Buddhist?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Ironically, any efforts to become empty of self will only lead to nurturing more self, because the the self is empty of self-nature. You can't rid yourself of something that doesn't exist to begin with. All you can really do is to nurture an insight which will allow you to see the illusory nature of the self; to pierce the facade, so to speak.


"We live in illusion and the appearance of things. There is a reality. We are that reality. When you understand this, you see that you are nothing, and being nothing, you are everything. That is all."

Kalu Rinpoche

I think self mastery is self forgetfulness in as much as emptying the self means we need to spend less time dwelling on it. As to it’s absence I’m speaking about the self which makes choices and has desires and so on.

 

[loverofhumanity]

The Buddha means many lifetimes on this earth not worlds separate from it. Different rebirths in which each realm is a different state of mind rather tha different places. For example, in some traditions the hungry ghost realm just means in a being unable to receive and practice Dharma. In heavenly realms we are able to but have too much bliss to want to.

Thr only holy books that mention rebirth in one way or another is Hinduism and Buddhism. I think latterday saints have something close. Dont quote me.


You see symbolism everywhere else but here. Its a analogy of rank and authority of god by explaining many possions not capible of man to own. Its shows power and role not realms and worlds.



No. Just one place. Revelations have lot of alogory to explain the beauty of heaven.

Just like there are billions of stars why couldn’t there also be billions of spiritual worlds?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Just like there are billions of stars why couldn’t there also be billions of spiritual worlds?

It depends on one's individual "belief." I like The Lion King when he says the stars are the many ancestors watching down on us. Its facts to us but beliefs to others. I have no issue with beliefs the just misinterpreting others beliefs into something it is not to the scriptures and practitioners that define it.

 

[godnotgod]

Are you a Buddhist?

Whether I am or not is unimportant.

 

[godnotgod]

. As to it’s absence I’m speaking about the self which makes choices and has desires and so on.

So are you saying that there exists an experiencer of the experience called 'the self'?...or is there only the experience itself, which is what we actually are.

Where is this 'self' which 'makes choices' and 'has desires'?

 

[Trailblazer]

Of the true nature of the Prophets we are told their bodies are human but their Soul was not conceived at conception like ours, but was pre existent. In that pre existence their Souls were given the ability and capacity to receive direct revelations from God.

Although They then had to translate that Revelation into a form we could understand, Their Words were endowed with an invisible spiritual force.

So for instance. If a million people in the past said....
‘ The world is but one country and mankind it’s citizens’, as these words had no spiritual force behind them, no results were forthcoming.

But when a Manifestation of God uttered these words then all humanity obeyed them and served these words. Science brought about world communication and technology such as the internet and world travel to make the world one country. We now have a global village once it has been uttered by a Manifestation not before.

This is the unique power of the Words spoken by These Beings no one else. These are the powers of the Word of God operating in the world right now forging a path to world unity and reconciliation. This force is like the air we breathe. It’s everwhere doing its work, breaking down barriers, renewing civilization.

Every single letter proceeding out of the mouth of God is indeed a mother letter, and every word uttered by Him Who is the Well Spring of Divine Revelation is a mother word.

All the wondrous achievements ye now witness are the direct consequences of the Revelation of this Name.

Through the mere revelation of the word “Fashioner,” issuing forth from His lips and proclaiming His attribute to mankind, such power is released as can generate, through successive ages, all the manifold arts which the hands of man can produce.

Every single letter proceeding from Our mouth is endowed with such regenerative power as to enable it to bring into existence a new creation—a creation the magnitude of which is inscrutable to all save God. He verily hath knowledge of all things.”

“It is in Our power, should We wish it, to enable a speck of floating dust to generate, in less than the twinkling of an eye, suns of infinite, of unimaginable splendor, to cause a dewdrop to develop into vast and numberless oceans, to infuse into every letter such a force as to empower it to unfold all the knowledge of past and future ages.”

WOW! I know about the pre-existent soul of Prophets but I did not know all of the rest of what you wrote!
I have saved that into a Word document for future reference!

Thank you so much.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

@loverofhumanity I may have my dates wrong. Bahaullah was alive until 1892. That is 126 years of today. Between when my great, great, great grandmother rounded was born about 1882. I have pictures of my great great. I think on my fathers side I have a picture of my third great grandmother. So, these ages are very recent especially when my great grandmother died when I was living. (They had early children)

If my great great were bahai would she consider bahaullah a direct link to god?

If not, when did that changed?

If so, it is possible to be with a prophet in today's age. The Church named Mother Teresa as a saint I think. The Vatican still finds proof of miracles. The pope is desended from the apostles in line through priesthood today.

When did holiness become symbolism and abstract when in the paleolithic period spirituality was literal and historical thereby not different in line with today? (Same history, less literal more abstract in the neolithic.

 

[Trailblazer]

Sounds like you are saying that the 'soul' is a definite thing which is housed in the physical body. We normally think of 'soul' as not of a material nature. So tell me: how can the physical body contain a non-material entity? I mean, it's not like the body is a vessel as in 'cup', that is containing a material substance like water or jello. The soul is not of a material nature. So I don't see how this 'soul' can be contained. If anything, what we think of as 'soul' is actually non-local while maintaining the body. You know. Sort of like the vast sea is what maintains the fish, both inside and outside. We just make a mistake in creating a finite 'self' out of our limited experience and vision. Even though all unique snowflakes are composed of universal water, it would be ridiculous, were snowflakes able to speak, for one to assert that it is a self, when it's true nature is formless, universal water. Likewise, our true nature is not the finite limited self called 'I', it is universal consciousness, not limited to containment in a temporal body.

When I said the body “houses” the soul I did not mean that literally the soul lives “in the body.” Rather, the soul is “associated” with the body while we are live in the physical body. The soul is definitely not of a material nature. We cannot know the nature of the soul, it is a mystery of God. Yet we can know its function while we are alive in the body it is to animate the body and maintain the body, like you said.

I agree that our true nature which I believe is the soul, is not limited to containment in a temporal body, but I believe we all have individuality that we will retain after we die physically. However, I also believe there is a universal consciousness of which we are all a part.

BTW, it has been scientifically proven that the brain is capable of non-local communication with another brain. IOW, consciousness is non-local.

That is very interesting. What it demonstrates to me is that the soul which is responsible for consciousness does not need a body to exist.

 

[Trailblazer]

Perhaps God is hiding within all material forms, which you say are nothing special. What better place for The Miraculous to hide than in The Ordinary? If that is the case, God has always been right at hand, right under our noses, but we are always looking elsewhere. After all, Yeshua tried to tell us:

"The Kingdom of God is within you"

But no one believes it. Why don't we believe it? Because our minds are conditioned not to, by science, by religion, by our parents, and others, because we see reality via a subject/object split in which the world is seen as a collection of 'things' which have no consciousness.

Indeed, if God is omnipresent, God is everywhere. How that actually plays out in reality nobody can say. However, God does not literally live inside human bodies. Obviously what Jesus said was symbolic and meant to represent a spiritual kingdom.

 

[godnotgod]

That is very interesting. What it demonstrates to me is that the soul which is responsible for consciousness does not need a body to exist.

heh...heh...what it demonstrates, is that consciousness is omniscient; ie 'non-local'.

You call universal consciousness 'the soul' because you still see things as an individual; as a distinct and separate 'self'. Once this is realized to be illusory, 'the soul' becomes simply 'soul', which is none other than spirit, or universal consciousness.

 

[godnotgod]

Indeed, if God is omnipresent, God is everywhere. How that actually plays out in reality nobody can say. However, God does not literally live inside human bodies. Obviously what Jesus said was symbolic and meant to represent a spiritual kingdom.

Yeshua did say that 'the kingdom of GOD is within you'.

(while the Buddha said that Ordinary Mind is not different than Buddha Mind)

And if the Hindus are correct, then not only does God live within human bodies*; humans are none other than God playing Itself as humans, and all of the other forms in the entire Universe. But the Hindu view of the divine nature, Brahman, is not that of the Christian, Jewish, or Muslim idea of God as creator-god. It is 'the ground of all Being'; Tao; The Unified Field; The Void; etc.

"The Universe is [none other than]The Absolute, as seen through the glass of Time, Space, and Causation"
Vivekenanda

The key that Hinduism provides is that The Universe is the result of lila (divine play) and maya (illusion), while the key Zen offers is that The Miraculous is none other than The Ordinary.

"Before Enlightenment, sweeping the floor;
after Enlightenment, sweeping the floor."

*Namaste, ever-conscious Self