Is enlightenment the same thing as self actualization?

[Sunstone]

The concept of self actualization comes from the psychologist, Maslow. The concept of enlightenment comes from Hinduism and Buddhism. Do these two concepts refer to the same thing? Are they essentially identical? What do you think?

Is enlightenment the same thing as salvation?

Is enlightenment the same thing as Grace?

How do these concepts compare with each other?

 

[michel]

The concept of self actualization comes from the psychologist, Maslow. The concept of enlightenment comes from Hinduism and Buddhism. Do these two concepts refer to the same thing? Are they essentially identical? What do you think?

Is enlightenment the same thing as salvation?

Is enlightenment the same thing as Grace?

How do these concepts compare with each other?

The need for self-actualization is "the desire to become more and more what one is, to become everything that one is capable of becoming." People who have everything can maximize their potential. They can seek knowledge, peace, esthetic experiences, self-fulfillment, oneness with God, etc. It is usually middle-class to upper-class students who take up environmental causes, join the Peace Corps, go off to a monastery, etc.
Actualization (of which I had never heard until I saw your thread, Sunstone), seems to be aimed at wordly matters, and could well be a goal for an atheist.

Salvation:- c.1225, originally in the Christian sense, from O.Fr. salvaciun, from L.L. salvationem (nom. salvatio, a Church L. translation of Gk. soteria), noun of action from salvare "to save" . In general (non-religious) sense, attested from c.1374. Meaning "source of salvation" is from c.1374. Salvation Army is from 1878, founded by the Rev. William Booth. The verb salve "to save from loss at sea" (1706) is a back-formation

Grace i:- c.1175, "God's favor or help," from O.Fr. grace "pleasing quality, favor, good will, thanks," from L. gratia "pleasing quality, good will, gratitude," from gratus "pleasing, agreeable," from PIE base *gwer- "to praise, welcome" (cf. Skt. grnati "sings, praises, announces," Lith. gririu "to praise, celebrate," Avestan gar- "to praise"). Sense of "virtue" is c.1330, that of "beauty of form or movement, pleasing quality" is c.1340. In classical sense, "one of the three sister goddesses (L. Gratiæ, Gk. Kharites), bestowers of beauty and charm," it is first recorded in Eng. 1579 in Spenser. The short prayer that is said before or after a meal (c.1225, until 16c. usually graces) is in the sense of "gratitude." Verb meaning "to show favor" (c.1440) led to that of "to lend or add grace to something" (1586, e.g. grace us with your presence), which is the root of the musical sense in grace notes (1657). Gracious as an exclamation (1713) is short for gracious God, etc.

Enlightenment I cannot see as being the same as salvation, nor grace. Elightenment is a state of awareness of the way in which we are attuned to nature, of spiritual enlightenment.

Salvation and Grace i see as being what we receive from God.

 

[ayani]

i see enlightenment and grace as being linked, though my understanding of enlightenment is from a kind of christian perspective, not hindu or buddhist. for me, enlightenment involves having one's spiritual eyes open to see that of God in everything, so that there are no longer distinctions between "holy" and "ordinary". when i pray, i'll often have insights as to how to open my spiritual eyes further, or it's as if i'll have them opened for me, and am able to see things with greater equanimity and unity. i preceive this as being a kind of grace- knock and the door shall be opened.

 

[Engyo]

One of the problems with answering a question like this, is that enlightenment is very hard to define for someone who hasn't experienced it (no, I haven't, for any meaningful length of time, anyway). In several sutras, the Buddha mentions that he can talk about enlightenment, but his listeners will not fully understand his meaning until they reach it themselves.

The biggest difference, to my mind, between Buddhism and the theistic religions is that each human being has the potential to equal or surpass the Buddha, given that they are willing to work very hard to accomplish this. No theistic religion that I am aware of offers this possibility.

 

[Doc]

One of the problems with answering a question like this, is that enlightenment is very hard to define for someone who hasn't experienced it (no, I haven't, for any meaningful length of time, anyway). In several sutras, the Buddha mentions that he can talk about enlightenment, but his listeners will not fully understand his meaning until they reach it themselves.

Thich Naht Hanh compares such instances of knowing God, or becoming enlightened, like a dialogue between a land turtle and a fish. One might represent enlightenment/believing in a God and the other perhaps with their own way of seeing the world and obtaining enlightenment/God.

Fish- Look here turtle, how I can drink this water and breathe it to give me life. Breathe this water, shelled friend and surely you can believe/become enlightened.
Turtle-Look here fish, how I can inhale this air and breathe it to give me life. Breathe this air, scaled friend and surely you can believe/become enlightened.

As you can see, both have defined their own type of enlightenment but neither seem to understand the other's tactics of doing so. Just as humans. We can try to explain all we want on how to believe/disbelieve in this or that or even on how to become enlightened. But in the end, only the individual can understand their own enlightenment themselves.

 

[Kay]

opcorn: Bump

 

[doppelganger]

The concept of self actualization comes from the psychologist, Maslow. The concept of enlightenment comes from Hinduism and Buddhism. Do these two concepts refer to the same thing? Are they essentially identical? What do you think?

To the extent that I have examined them both, they appear to refer to the same thing to me. Though I admit I am much more directly familiar with Maslow and modern psychology than I am with Hinduism and Buddhism.

Are you familiar with Loevinger's work on ego development, Phil?

Is enlightenment the same thing as salvation?

To me, yes. Salvation understood as "dying to my self" and finding "the mystery of Christ in me" is another mythologization of self-actualization.

Is enlightenment the same thing as Grace?

Maybe. Grace is a reflection on self-actualization. It's the path of humility that brings us back into communion with the world. Christian salvation coupled with a contempt for grace can be an ugly thing (Rom. 2).

 

[eudaimonia]

Self-actualization:

An episode...in which the powers of the person come together in a particularly efficient and intensely enjoyable way, ...he is more integrated and less split, more...fully functioning, more creative, ...more truly himself, more perfectly actualizing his potentialities, ...more fully human. -- Dr. Abraham Maslow

The concept of self actualization comes from the psychologist, Maslow. The concept of enlightenment comes from Hinduism and Buddhism. Do these two concepts refer to the same thing? Are they essentially identical? What do you think?

Absolutely not. Self-actualization refers to one's personal powers working in alignment and harmony, while enlightenment is instead a self-realization, and epiphany about the true nature of things.

While enlightenment might possibly be an aid to self-actualization, it isn't the same thing. I doubt that the self-actualizers that Maslow studied had all achieved enlightenment, either.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[autonomous1one1]

Self-actualization:
An episode...in which the powers of the person come together in a particularly efficient and intensely enjoyable way, ...he is more integrated and less split, more...fully functioning, more creative, ...more truly himself, more perfectly actualizing his potentialities, ...more fully human. -- Dr. Abraham Maslow


Absolutely not. Self-actualization refers to one's personal powers working in alignment and harmony, while enlightenment is instead a self-realization, and epiphany about the true nature of things.

While enlightenment might possibly be an aid to self-actualization, it isn't the same thing. I doubt that the self-actualizers that Maslow studied had all achieved enlightenment, either.
eudaimonia,
Mark

Greetings and thanks, Eudaimonia. I agree with you completely on this one with the way Dr. Maslow defines self-actualization. I would like to note, however, that some define it differently and even get it confused with self-realization. Also, I will bow to Gracie on Grace.

 

[Sunstone]

Are you familiar with Loevinger's work on ego development, Phil?

Not at all. What have I been missing?

 

[lilithu]

The concept of self actualization comes from the psychologist, Maslow. The concept of enlightenment comes from Hinduism and Buddhism. Do these two concepts refer to the same thing? Are they essentially identical? What do you think?

Is enlightenment the same thing as salvation?

Is enlightenment the same thing as Grace?

How do these concepts compare with each other?

Self-actualization seeks to make one the best self that one can be. It re-enforces the concept of self. Enlightenment is the understanding that there is no-self. While there may be similar outward consequences - greater awareness, non-attachment, etc - the two are not the same.

I have on occasion used enlightenment and salvation interchangeably. When I do so, I am aware that salvation generally connotes that Someone other than yourself did the saving. In that respect they are not the same thing. Even in the Mayhana tradition where there is thought to be help from Bodhisattvas, it is ultimately up to each person to save themselves. That is what the Buddha meant by "Be lamps unto yourself." But with that caveat in mind, I do think it valid to say they are functionally similar. In both the Hindu/Buddhist and the Christian traditions, there is the belief that something is wrong with the state that we are in and we need to get out of it. Both enlightenment and salvation refer to the getting out.

Grace... grace is a gift. It is not something that you can strive for the way you can self-actualization or enlightenment. It is not up to you. It makes no distinction between who is "deserving" and who is not.

In the end I believe that salvation and enlightenment lead to the same place, despite the fact that both religions say this is not the case. I kinda hope that it works the way that the Hindus say, that the path of love and the path of knowledge eventually lead to the same Universal Oneness that they call Brahman. Grace is necessary for salvation and is also the result of being "saved." Somehow grace must have a connection to enlightenment. But I have not seen room for grace in Buddhist doctrine. For me personally, it is one of the major things that keeps me from being Buddhist.

 

[autonomous1one1]

Great post as usual, Lilithu.