Is Einstein in hell for Hiroshima?

[Clara Tea]

My family was in Hong Kong when the
Japanese dropped in for a visit.

It was not like Nanjing but if anyone earned an A bomb it was theJapanses- allowing for that as usual, the innocent were the ones who suffered,
for the innocent who suffered elsewhere.

Some argue that WWII was ending anyway. Others argue that the prisoners were being tortured and were dying (some of starvation), and that the bomb was necessary to bring an early end to the war. They felt that more lives might be saved.

5 star general, Douglas MacArthur, ordered the evacuation of starving prisoners where the buildings had been flattened in Nagasaki (ground zero of the bomb). This is because no one could sneak up on them. The USS Wichita was first on the scene, having fought off a bomber who continued attacking after peace had been declared, and the Wichita (mine sweeper ship) had to navigate through mined Nagasaki harbor during peacetime. The 45 marines and sailors who were ordered to go ashore had no instruction about nuclear radiation or nuclear bombs, and didn't realize that they were marching to their deaths. They all died slow and painful deaths of radiation poisoning (must faster than cancer deaths). Military doctors said they were goldbricking (not doing their duty) and their hair fell out and fingernails and toenails fell out because they had the flu. They were dishonorably discharged for goldbricking, deprived of medical help, and died in disgrace. They had been sent in before the radiation crew, without radiation protection for themselves, because it was felt that Marines had to make sure that there were no snipers in the area. The protection of the radiation team was of paramount importance because they were the only ones with training. 5 days later, another ship dropped off 44 marines, but radioactive dust had settled due to rain. I asked Senator Diane Feinstein (Democrat) for posthumous medals for them, since I knew that they didn't have peacetime medals, and she refused to consider it because they didn't have peacetime medals.

 

[Audie]

Some argue that WWII was ending anyway. Others argue that the prisoners were being tortured and were dying (some of starvation), and that the bomb was necessary to bring an early end to the war. They felt that more lives might be saved.

5 star general, Douglas MacArthur, ordered the evacuation of starving prisoners where the buildings had been flattened in Nagasaki (ground zero of the bomb). This is because no one could sneak up on them. The USS Wichita was first on the scene, having fought off a bomber who continued attacking after peace had been declared, and the Wichita (mine sweeper ship) had to navigate through mined Nagasaki harbor during peacetime. The 45 marines and sailors who were ordered to go ashore had no instruction about nuclear radiation or nuclear bombs, and didn't realize that they were marching to their deaths. They all died slow and painful deaths of radiation poisoning (must faster than cancer deaths). Military doctors said they were goldbricking (not doing their duty) and their hair fell out and fingernails and toenails fell out because they had the flu. They were dishonorably discharged for goldbricking, deprived of medical help, and died in disgrace. They had been sent in before the radiation crew, without radiation protection for themselves, because it was felt that Marines had to make sure that there were no snipers in the area. The protection of the radiation team was of paramount importance because they were the only ones with training. 5 days later, another ship dropped off 44 marines, but radioactive dust had settled due to rain. I asked Senator Diane Feinstein (Democrat) for posthumous medals for them, since I knew that they didn't have peacetime medals, and she refused to consider it because they didn't have peacetime medals.

I don't know your point other than that
ignorance and injustice is a thing.

The war was not about to just end.
The psychotic and fansticsl regime
that controlled Japan wre men of consummate evil.

The cost of every day that the war continued
was enormous.
Pounding them into submission via blockade
and foreboding cities into nonexistence,
or invading...horrible beyond imagining.

Personally,I wish they'd done a demonstration
in a safe place rather than dropping it on a city.

But A bombs were not seen in the light they are now, and, a thorough firebombing would
have killed as many, as horribly.

There was no good solution for what
the Japanese did.

 

[SomeRandom]

Einstein famously wrote a letter to President FDR suggesting that the US makes an effort to make the atomic bomb, but he grew to regret his suggestion.

Physics students and graduates have to grapple with the consequences of their work. Often the work of scientists ends up in the hands of politicians (who order their military to use it).

After John Podesta got his email hacked (revealing private matters of Hillary Clinton, whose campaign he was managing), Hillary raged at Russia and threatened them with nukes. One must temper rage if one is to control nukes.

You are right, however, that Einstein had initially pooh poohed the idea of quantum mechanics (claiming that God didn't play dice with the universe). Quantum mechanics is about matter being made of light of random position (still in the same energy level).

Later Einstein accepted quantum mechanics and actually contributed to it (Bose-Einstein statistics).

The Einstein Podolski Rosen Paradox modified the Heisenburg Uncertainty Principle from "random" to "random and statistically independent" variables. The argument goes like this: Suppose a row of "spin 1" particles was split randomly, so that the top was a set of random spins, then the bottom (which is 1- the top spin). This means that the bottom row is also random. But, clearly the top row is statistically dependent on the bottom row.

The fictional Einstein Podolski Rosen Bridge (from the TV show sliders) was the justification for sliding to parallel dimensions (remember, it is fiction). So, don't confuse the two.

Whether he regrets it or not, I don’t think Einstein can be held responsible for the US using nuclear physics in the war. It was a war, Einstein was worried what the enemies would do with such power. That’s just a bad situation all around

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

If there is no Hell,
Then there is no bottom of Hell.
Hence, Hell has no bottom -

Proof of the "bottomless pit" (Bible). The suffering has no limit: if you have lost one kid, you can lose two kids.

Albert Einstein has called his letter to President Roosevelt (with advice to build the A-bomb) the biggest mistake of his life.

Is the inventor of the cine camera responsible for child pornography?
No. Only if he took the pictures of a naked child. Einstein has willingly helped the military. That was his concern.

Assuming, that Einstein is ABSOLUTE GENIUS (so, Albert correctly identifies his own mistakes),
the God of Love is angry at Einstein?

The letter of Einstein has started not only a peaceful use of radioactivity but a military use as well. And look, how the testing of the bombs has influenced nature and health: we have a cancer pandemic.

You are asking: why wouldn't a loving God forgive him?
There is a chance, that the anger of God if it has already started, would last an eternity.
The God, who always loves, can not become angry even for a sec.

Why bother with his involved (or lack thereof) in a-bombs or anything?

You're a christian. He wasn't. For that reason alone (believing the "wrong thing") he already ends up in hell in your make-belief story. He called your religion a collection of primitive and childish stories.

So he doesn't even qualify for requirement number one: believing in your religion on bad evidence.
Why bother look at other aspects of his life? That alone is an "unforgivable" sin in your religion anyway.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I do not know. But Newton was not an absolute genius like Einstein.

Newton was arguably a bigger genius then Einstein.

And it worries me, that Einstein has made a fatal mistake with his letter to Truman.

Why aren't you worried that he called your religion a collection of primitive and childish tales?

 

[loverofhumanity]

A good start on the " work" is to get the
religionists to quit working to push their nonsense.

I think you are totally uninformed about our role in the UN and how we work for peace. The passage below from the Bahá’í peace plan is ‘nonsense’?

By a general agreement all the governments of the world must disarm simultaneously. It will not do if one lays down its arms and the others refuse to do so. The nations of the world must concur with each other concerning this supremely important subject, so that they may abandon together the deadly weapons of human slaughter. As long as one nation increases her military and naval budget other nations will be forced into this crazed competition through their natural and supposed interests. (Bahá'u'lláh and the New Era, p. 169)

 

[McBell]

I think you are totally uninformed about our role in the UN and how we work for peace. The passage below from the Bahá’í peace plan is ‘nonsense’?

By a general agreement all the governments of the world must disarm simultaneously. It will not do if one lays down its arms and the others refuse to do so. The nations of the world must concur with each other concerning this supremely important subject, so that they may abandon together the deadly weapons of human slaughter. As long as one nation increases her military and naval budget other nations will be forced into this crazed competition through their natural and supposed interests. (Bahá'u'lláh and the New Era, p. 169)

Do you perhaps think there are no religionists who push their beliefs onto others?
I sincerely hope not.

Even you are pushing, albeit not very hard, your beliefs onto others...

 

[Audie]

I think you are totally uninformed about our role in the UN and how we work for peace. The passage below from the Bahá’í peace plan is ‘nonsense’?

By a general agreement all the governments of the world must disarm simultaneously. It will not do if one lays down its arms and the others refuse to do so. The nations of the world must concur with each other concerning this supremely important subject, so that they may abandon together the deadly weapons of human slaughter. As long as one nation increases her military and naval budget other nations will be forced into this crazed competition through their natural and supposed interests. (Bahá'u'lláh and the New Era, p. 169)

Peace is fine. Pushing religion and
social engineering by idealists, not so
much.

 

[McBell]

Peace is fine.

Yet it is still religionists pushing their beliefs onto others....

 

[PruePhillip]

Yet it is still religionists pushing their beliefs onto others....

What religion was Japan pushing onto the Western powers when it invaded
SE Asia and the Pacific?
What religion were the Fascists pushing onto Russia and the Western nations
in Europe?
What religion was Iraq pushing onto Iran and Kuwait?
What religion was Kaiser pushing onto France during the trench warfare of
WW1?
What religion did Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot etc follow?

Do you think any future WW3 will have a religious motive?

 

[PruePhillip]

I don't know your point other than that
ignorance and injustice is a thing.

The war was not about to just end.
The psychotic and fansticsl regime
that controlled Japan wre men of consummate evil.

The cost of every day that the war continued
was enormous.
Pounding them into submission via blockade
and foreboding cities into nonexistence,
or invading...horrible beyond imagining.

Personally,I wish they'd done a demonstration
in a safe place rather than dropping it on a city.

But A bombs were not seen in the light they are now, and, a thorough firebombing would
have killed as many, as horribly.

There was no good solution for what
the Japanese did.

A safe place to drop a bomb? Doing that with one of the few A-bombs you
have, and helping to condition the Japanese to a new form of warfare would
suit the militarist govt of Japan just fine. Even the deaths of 20 million in the
proposed US invasion (don't forget the Soviets too) was fine by many Japanese.

 

[McBell]

What religion was Japan pushing onto the Western powers when it invaded
SE Asia and the Pacific?
What religion were the Fascists pushing onto Russia and the Western nations
in Europe?
What religion was Iraq pushing onto Iran and Kuwait?
What religion was Kaiser pushing onto France during the trench warfare of
WW1?
What religion did Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot etc follow?

Do you think any future WW3 will have a religious motive?

If you were to leave my post you quoted above in context....

Seeing as I was specifically talking about loverofhumanity's peace push...

Otherwise I would have to ask why you straw-manned beliefs into religion...
Or perhaps you think that religionists ONLY push their religions onto others?
Which would make you really look silly given my post you quoted above was not about pushing Bahá’í onto others but about pushing the peace plan belief onto others.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Whether he regrets it or not, I don’t think Einstein can be held responsible for the US using nuclear physics in the war. It was a war, Einstein was worried what the enemies would do with such power. That’s just a bad situation all around

I find both the righteous and unrighteous 'will be' (future) resurrected according to Acts of the Apostles 24:15.
Since one's death pays the asking price tag for one's inherited adamic sins, then Einstein will have a resurrection.- Romans 6:23,7
In history we see that it is MAN who dominates MAN to MAN's hurt, MAN's injury - Ecclesiastes 8:9
So, as with atomic power it can be either: Atomic Energy or Atomic Bomb <- man's choice.

 

[SomeRandom]

I find both the righteous and unrighteous 'will be' (future) resurrected according to Acts of the Apostles 24:15.
Since one's death pays the asking price tag for one's inherited adamic sins, then Einstein will have a resurrection.- Romans 6:23,7
In history we see that it is MAN who dominates MAN to MAN's hurt, MAN's injury - Ecclesiastes 8:9
So, as with atomic power it can be either: Atomic Energy or Atomic Bomb <- man's choice.

Fair enough

 

[loverofhumanity]

Do you perhaps think there are no religionists who push their beliefs onto others?
I sincerely hope not.

Even you are pushing, albeit not very hard, your beliefs onto others...

The OP was about Hiroshima. My post was related to the disarmament of such weapons.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Peace is fine. Pushing religion and
social engineering by idealists, not so
much.

My post was solely about the disarmament of nuclear weapons with regards to Hiroshima.

 

[PruePhillip]

My understanding is that the entire human race is culpable for not establishing world peace. Had it been established, these unimaginable horrors would never have occurred.

Today we are all responsible for establishing peace so this never happens again. But will we take up that responsibility or will another war have to happen before we wake up?

Humans don't 'wake up' to war - war is a part of our human nature. War taught
us many things, including co-operation. Without war humans might have remained
as small family groups. We had to learn to be united, resourceful and cooperative
to survive other warring groups. And war, such as the European powers as compared
to a united China, gave us a huge leg up with technology.
We can't stop war - but we can learn to live with it.
Nuclear disarmament is a no go - see how we tried to disarm North Korea and Iran.
Doing disarmament ourselves just invites nuclear attack.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Humans don't 'wake up' to war - war is a part of our human nature. War taught
us many things, including co-operation. Without war humans might have remained
as small family groups. We had to learn to be united, resourceful and cooperative
to survive other warring groups. And war, such as the European powers as compared
to a united China, gave us a huge leg up with technology.
We can't stop war - but we can learn to live with it.
Nuclear disarmament is a no go - see how we tried to disarm North Korea and Iran.
Doing disarmament ourselves just invites nuclear attack.

It’s so sad that people look down so lowly on humans. It perpetuates war forever and plays right into the hands of arms dealers to claim its ‘in our nature’ rather than an immature expression of our nature that needs to be eliminated.

No wonder with hopeless rhetoric like that no one even bothers to try for peace so full of hopelessness have people become. No wonder there’s no change because with such a defeatist attitude we don’t even bother to try.

Im the opposite. I’m full of supreme confidence that war has been a part of our immaturity as spiritual beings and that as we mature we can and will build a just world where war will be a thing of the past.

We can’t stop war? The despair, hopelessness, depression and despondency in that statement is so typical of many who have just given up without even trying.

We will establish peace I believe, and war is not part of our nature but an immature expression of it. There is much more goodness in humanity than most think. More than enough to eliminate war forever, I firmly believe.

 

[PruePhillip]

It’s so sad that people look down so lowly on humans. It perpetuates war forever and plays right into the hands of arms dealers to claim its ‘in our nature’ rather than an immature expression of our nature that needs to be eliminated.

No wonder with hopeless rhetoric like that no one even bothers to try for peace so full of hopelessness have people become. No wonder there’s no change because with such a defeatist attitude we don’t even bother to try.

Im the opposite. I’m full of supreme confidence that war has been a part of our immaturity as spiritual beings and that as we mature we can and will build a just world where war will be a thing of the past.

We can’t stop war? The despair, hopelessness, depression and despondency in that statement is so typical of many who have just given up without even trying.

We will establish peace I believe, and war is not part of our nature but an immature expression of it. There is much more goodness in humanity than most think. More than enough to eliminate war forever, I firmly believe.

The Left always believes human nature can be overcome. Some speak of Stalin's
Collectivization and Mao's Cultural Revolution as 'wars against human nature.'
Adams believe that human nature could be harnessed for the greater good, Marx
thought it could be overcome with force. Do you want to live in a Marxist world?

There's no 'despair, hopelessness...' in many people's belief about war. Just look
at how assertive and proud Communist China is now. It's prepared for war - and
many young men and women are cheering their govt on regards Taiwan, South
China Sea etc.. And look at how angry many Indians feel about China on their
northern borders.

No, many people love the idea of war - it solves problems, enlarges borders,
gives pride, strengthens society, give revenge etc..

I am not for war - but those fighting human nature are warring against me.

 

[loverofhumanity]

The Left always believes human nature can be overcome. Some speak of Stalin's
Collectivization and Mao's Cultural Revolution as 'wars against human nature.'
Adams believe that human nature could be harnessed for the greater good, Marx
thought it could be overcome with force. Do you want to live in a Marxist world?

There's no 'despair, hopelessness...' in many people's belief about war. Just look
at how assertive and proud Communist China is now. It's prepared for war - and
many young men and women are cheering their govt on regards Taiwan, South
China Sea etc.. And look at how angry many Indians feel about China on their
northern borders.

No, many people love the idea of war - it solves problems, enlarges borders,
gives pride, strengthens society, give revenge etc..

I am not for war - but those fighting human nature are warring against me.

From where I sit I see a lot of community building going on all over the world where people from all walks of life, all races, nations, religions and glasses are coming together. So I see the exact opposite happening.

There are two processes as far as I can gather underway at the moment, the processes of disintegration and integration. One tears down old belief systems, ideas, and traditions which are of no further use and the other introduces concepts like the oneness and equality of humanity, that we are all one family and also things like universal human rights.

The struggle going on is between those who want to cling to the past and those who want to move on to a new, brighter future. So in other words it’s like the American Civil war but playing out on a world scale. This is why it involves all of us because our voice strengthens either the oppressive old or the free new.

Doing nothing allows the shadows to grow darker. You know the saying that for the triumph of evil all that is required is for good men to do nothing?