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Featured Is Deuteronomy 18:18 Jesus?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Teritos, Apr 3, 2021.

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  1. John D. Brey

    John D. Brey Well-Known Member

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    And yet there are golden cherubim on the ark of the covenant?



    John
     
  2. John D. Brey

    John D. Brey Well-Known Member

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    The crux of the issue is who is instructing Israel? Moses or God? And how to distinguish which is apparently transparently the case?



    John
     
  3. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    All of that happened before the Golden Calf. And you know what they say... "What happened before the Golden Calf, stays before the Golden Calf"
    If you don't think Deuteronomy is accurate, then there's no reason to debate further because the premise is moot.
    That's how you know that cherubim aren't god or even god-like.
    It's a good question. However the simple meaning of the text renders Jesus an apostate liable for the death penalty who doesn't qualify as a prophet. I agree with the simple meaning. It's most likely that the Jewish religion would not allow **under any circumstances** to follow a Man-God hybrid. It's too similar to what they had in Egypt under Pharaoh. Even if Aaron, Moses, any of the main characters in the story make mistakes along the way and find themselves worshipping idols, even if it was Moses' rod... It doesn't change the story. God incarnating as man is forbidden. Jesus advocating for himself as god makes him an apostate. It doesn't mean that you can't love him with all your heart. It just means he's not the Jewish messiah.
     
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  4. JerryMyers

    JerryMyers Member

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    So what if Deuteronomy 18:18 is about Jesus ??

    If it is, then, it only proves that Jesus is NOT God but just a prophet and the trinity is purely man-made nonsense. Deuteronomy 18:18 CLEARLY says, “I will raise up for them a PROPHET…..”. So, why are the Trinitarian Christians still think Jesus is God when God Himself has said He will raise a PROPHET as recorded in their own scripture ???
     
  5. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Colossians 2:9 is where the Trinity is mentioned in the Bible. The formal doctrine was invented centuries later but the concept of the Trinity is in the Bible. The Trinity is not manmade. Religion is manmade. If God isn't a trinity, can we be saved? The answer is no. | carm.org

     
  6. JerryMyers

    JerryMyers Member

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    Why are you STILL listening to the words of other people and NOT the words of Jesus as recorded in your own scripture and yet still claim to be a follower of Jesus Christ ?? To be saved means to be able to enter into the kingdom of heaven in the afterlife. Didn’t Jesus tell you how to be saved, that is, to enter the kingdom of heaven?

    Let me refresh your memory - in Matthew 7:21 Jesus said that only those who do the Will of God will enter the kingdom of heaven. He NEVER said only those who believe he’s God and he came to die for the sin of all mankind will enter the kingdom of heaven, now did he ??
     
  7. Teritos

    Teritos Active Member

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    Jesus is a prophet, a servant and a man. But he is not only that. He is more than that, he is God in the flesh(Colossians 2:9).

    Ecclesiastes 7:20
    Indeed, there is not a righteous person on earth who always does good and does not ever sin.

    1 Peter 2:22
    Christ did not commit sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth.
     
  8. Teritos

    Teritos Active Member

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    God's will is to believe with love that Jesus is the God and Creator of the universe(John 8:24) who died on the Cross for the sins of others(Matthew 26:28). No one gets eternal life by doing good works, one gets eternal life by believing in the right thing with love.

    Grace means undeserved reward. (Revelation 22:17)
     
    #88 Teritos, Apr 6, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2021
  9. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

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    No. And the proof is in Malachi 4:4-6 Matthew 17:11 John 16:12-15 Acts 3:19-23 Revelation 10:7

    Jesus His Pre-Eminence is not the rock or the water. HE is GOD.
     
  10. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Jesus mentioned the Trinity in Matthew 28:19

    Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost
     
  11. John D. Brey

    John D. Brey Well-Known Member

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    I think Deuteronomy is divine revelation. But the Hebrew letter are merely ---what did you call it ----- "vessels" for the spirit of the revelation contained in those vessels. Our entire dialogue is about how "vessels" or "avatars" mediate for the soul, or spirit, that's hidden inside the vessel?

    Woe to the sinners who look upon the Torah as simply tales pertaining to things of the world, seeing thus only the outer garment. But the righteous whose gaze penetrates to the very Torah, happy are they. Just as wine must be in a jar to keep, so the Torah must be contained in an outer garment. That garment is made up of tales and stories; but we, we are bound to penetrate beyond.

    The Zohar.​



    John
     
  12. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    "Woe to anyone who compares Him to any attribute, even to one of His own attributes, and certainly not to humans "whose foundation is in the dust" (Iyov 4:19)"

    - Zohar
     
  13. John D. Brey

    John D. Brey Well-Known Member

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    The writer of the story mustn't have got the memo?

    And you ---- lift up your staff and stretch out your hand over the sea and split it, so that the Children of Israel shall go into the midst of the sea on dry ground.

    The Hirsch Chumash, Shemos 14:16.​



    John
     
  14. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    Verse 16 is clarified by verse 21

    Shemos 14:21

    21And Moses stretched out his hand over the sea, and the Lord led the sea with the strong east wind all night, and He made the sea into dry land and the waters split.

    Try again. I reassert: Moses didn't split the sea, that was God. Your attempt to deify Moses' rod has failed again. :p
     
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  15. John D. Brey

    John D. Brey Well-Known Member

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    Keep in mind that in my attempt to deify Moses' rod, I'm making it the avatar of the Lord, the vessel in which the Lord resides. So it's not that ironic that the verse I gave, and the one you gave, segue pretty nicely in my rendition:

    And you [Moses]---- lift up your staff and stretch out your hand over the sea and split it, so that the Children of Israel shall go into the midst of the sea on dry ground. . . 21 So Moses stretched out his hand [with the staff in it] over the sea such that the Lord [in Moses' hand] led the sea with the strong east wind all night, and He made the sea into dry land and the waters split.​

    We could almost imaging reading that in the middle of the night Moses arm grew weak so he let the Lord down. And the sea began to return to its original place until Hur and Aaron ran up and grabbed Moses hand (the one with the Lord in it), his right hand, and lifted it back up toward heaven so that the sea continued to split wherefore Amalek . . . I mean Egypt . . . was up ****z creek, or sea, as it were, without a lordly paddle or staff.



    John
     
    #95 John D. Brey, Apr 6, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2021
  16. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    The Lord isn't the staff, ( Deuteronomy 4 ), but you're welcome to continue to imagine the story however you choose.

    12The Lord spoke to you out of the midst of the fire; you heard the sound of the words, but saw no image, just a voice.​
     
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  17. JerryMyers

    JerryMyers Member

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    How is John 8:24 be understood as “God's will is to believe with love that Jesus is the God and Creator of the universe” ??? Care to explain ??

    ..And wherein the whole Bible did Jesus ever say or even imply he was sent to die for the sins of others ??? Read what Jesus said and NOT what other people said !
     
  18. JerryMyers

    JerryMyers Member

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    Well, the fullness of God in Jesus (Colossians 2:9) doesn’t make him God. Clearly, Paul did not see the fullness of God in someone means that someone is God too. In Ephesians 3:19 Paul said everyone should be filled with “all the fullness of God,” – does that mean Paul wanted everyone to be God ???

    To have the fullness of God simply means to feel the full presence of God in oneself, and Jesus, being a prophet of God definitely felt or filled with the presence or fullness of God in him. In Ephesians 3:19, Paul prayed that every one too should feel the presence or the fullness of God in themselves too.

    Sin simply means a state where one is when he/she disobeys God’s Commands. So, any person on earth who always does good and does not ever sin IS a righteous person and even if he’s sinless, that doesn’t make him God, that makes him a prophet-like person….. and if he’s truly a prophet, that’s what we expect him to be anyway, else he would NOT be a prophet of God, now would he ?

    That don’t make him God, but, a prophet of God who was sent to the lost sheep of Israel – Jesus himself said so.
     
  19. JerryMyers

    JerryMyers Member

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    Nope - Jesus did not mention trinity nor its concept in Matthew 28:19.

    There’s a dispute even among the Christian scholars as ‘in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost' was said to be fabricated, that is, ‘in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost' was added on much later. The correct reading of Matthew 28:19 was said to be in Luke 24:47 – “and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem”. The phrase “repentance for the forgiveness of sins” is what baptism represents in the days of Jesus, which will be preached in his name – no Father/God, no Holy Ghost. The phrase “in his name” simply means by what Jesus had declared and that is, the repentance of sins will be preached. Jesus never declared remission of sins will be preached by his death, now did he ??
     
  20. John D. Brey

    John D. Brey Well-Known Member

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    Why is the ear-gate, or the ear-drum, able to discern a divine voice, but the eye-gate, the eye-ball, not able to discern a divine image? In other words, if God can vibrate an ear-drum why can't he manipulate the cornea of an eyeball?

    Is sound sacred while sight is profane?



    John
     
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