Is "Cruelty" Ever Justified?

[nPeace]

Is this some Earthly father, or an all knowing God? I've been answering as if it's an human father, because that's all I know.

You've narrowed the focus, but actually what I have said all along stands. I would use the best information that was available to me to make the best decision I could. In this case, all I have are two conflicting statements from two different people and I have no way to check what they say. In that case I would follow the advice of the person whose opinion I valued most. What else could I do? If it was my father versus some stranger I would have more to go on about my father. That could actually go either way if my father was a consistent liar, but we're assuming he is generally reliable I think.

What I meant by what you have in mind is not what you have said so far, but where you are going with it. I assume it will lead to some conclusion you think I should draw about God, but I don't want to put words into your mouth.

What you have, is evidence your father is either trustworthy, or not.
That's all I'm saying... other than the fact that choosing to listen or not, can be a matter of life or death; harm, or safety.

OK.

You still haven't addressed what I intended, and maybe I need to make myself clearer. I mean if God told you you were wrong about something really basic. I'm thinking of a conversation something like this.

God: Welcome to heaven. Before you go on there's something I have to tell you. What you believed on Earth was not correct in some important ways. For example, Jesus was just human. He did say some very important things, but he was also wrong about a lot of other things. For example, he is not divine in any way. There's only one God and that is me.

You: But ... Lord, it clearly said otherwise in your Word, the Bible! Did I misunderstand it? Am I damned?

God: Um, yes, that's something else. The Bible is a collection of writings by people who were trying to understand me. Most of the time they got it wrong to some extent, but they did do their best, so they get credit for that. (Smiles) Oh and you are not damned, nor is anyone else. I don't do that. Some people do need a lot of help before they can be truly incorporated into my Kingdom though. (Looks sad)

You can answer that or not, but if you do, you have to accept it as true for the purposes of the example. No saying "God wouldn't do that".

I spoke to a guy last night, that sounded just like this.
I was thinking to myself, that while he was saying my thinking was wrong, he was at the same time thinking that the way he saw it, was most likely right.

If I found myself in the position your scenario presents, it would not matter. Any which way, I would accept that I am wrong.
No human is infallible.
Wouldn't you accept it, if the universe revealed that everything scientists believe about it, and taught you, was wrong?

I'll get right to my point. You find that incredible because you are so convinced of what you believe. When you talk to Atheists they find your assertions just as difficult to believe.

Now that you say that... I was wondering... Are you atheist, or agnostic? I have something I for which I want to get your thinking on.

Things can be partially clear. Have you stood in front of a mirror after taking a shower, when the glass is partially fogged up and partially clear?

Right... It's not clear.

It's not clear because that's not what the Theory of Evolution says.

I must have heard from the wrong people then. How are you an ape if you didn't evolve from apes... and your great great great great great... cousin was an ape?

1 Corinthians 2:14.

Those who are unspiritual do not receive the gifts of God’s Spirit, for they are foolishness to them, and they are unable to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. (NRSV. Other versions use different words, but the meaning is similar).

Were we talking about God's existence, or things pertaining to spiritual knowledge?
What I think you were saying was the familiar Christian response to a skeptic's statement that it's not totally clear that God exists by examining the world

Be nice now!

I though I worded it in a nice way.
I'm always trying to help people examine themselves.
I try to examine myself, and like when people help me to do so.
You don't think that's nice? May I ask why?

 

[blü 2]

Thanks for sharing your opinion.

So ─ you as a Christian are in favor of arbitrary murderous revenge? You as a Christian are not in favor of arbitrary murderous revenge?

Is cruelty ever justified?

 

[Alien826]

What you have, is evidence your father is either trustworthy, or not.
That's all I'm saying... other than the fact that choosing to listen or not, can be a matter of life or death; harm, or safety.

If that's all you're getting at, then I agree, essentially.

I spoke to a guy last night, that sounded just like this.
I was thinking to myself, that while he was saying my thinking was wrong, he was at the same time thinking that the way he saw it, was most likely right.

Of course, people believe what they believe, with a greater or lesser degree of certainty. If I thought your beliefs were more likely to be correct then my own, I would change my beliefs.

Be clear though that my little pretend scenario does not represent my own beliefs. I was just trying to create a situation where your most basic beliefs were shown to be wrong.

I'll throw something in here, which may surprise you. I am not trying, in any way, to change your beliefs. If I thought it was possible, I would immediately stop.

If I found myself in the position your scenario presents, it would not matter. Any which way, I would accept that I am wrong.
No human is infallible.

That what I was asking. Thank you.

Wouldn't you accept it, if the universe revealed that everything scientists believe about it, and taught you, was wrong?

I should, and hopefully I would.

Now that you say that... I was wondering... Are you atheist, or agnostic? I have something I for which I want to get your thinking on.

A difficult question, believe it or not. I currently lack belief in god/s, which many say is the definition of atheism. For agnostic, it depends what you mean. It can be the belief that god/s is unknowable. The usage these days is more that the agnostic is not sure about the existence of god/s. I'm sure you see the essential difference.

Let's say I try to apply scientific methods to my beliefs, and there are some things I can't reach a conclusion on.

I must have heard from the wrong people then. How are you an ape if you didn't evolve from apes... and your great great great great great... cousin was an ape?

Strictly "apes", of which we are one species, evolved from a common ancestor that was not an ape.

Were we talking about God's existence, or things pertaining to spiritual knowledge?
What I think you were saying was the familiar Christian response to a skeptic's statement that it's not totally clear that God exists by examining the world

You said

Nope. The Bible has to be "spiritually discerned"? Seriously?
Where did you read that, buddy?

I was just responding to the question "where did you read that" and quoted the exact words from the Bible.

I though I worded it in a nice way.
I'm always trying to help people examine themselves.
I try to examine myself, and like when people help me to do so.
You don't think that's nice? May I ask why?

"These things often leave a on my mind about your inner self."

You have no idea what my "inner self" might or might not be. It struck a nerve because I have, in discussions with Christians, been told so many times that I effectively don't know my own mind. I don't suggest that your beliefs come from some kind of mental or emotional confusion. Maybe they do, but it's not for me to suggest it.

No big deal.

 

[nPeace]

So ─ you as a Christian are in favor of arbitrary murderous revenge? You as a Christian are not in favor of arbitrary murderous revenge?

Is cruelty ever justified?

I'm in favor of cleaning house of unwanted and undesirable... um...
Basically, a clean individual removes from their home, anything that is filthy... things that make the home unpleasant to look at, or live in comfortably.

I try to be as tidy as I possibly can.
People today try, not only at home, but every now and again, people volunteer a day for cleanup. They go to the beaches... the parks... the neighborhoods... the hills and valleys, and they get rid of what is unsightly garbage.

Even the children take part. That's good. Don't you think?

If people go to that length, to keep the earth - their home clean... even cleaning up behing careless people... and these people are not perfect... How much more so, the Most Holy.
Not only does God keep his congregation clean, by removing people like Ananias and Sapphira, but God promised to clean the earth. Revelation 11:18

I'm all for that, because the reason we have problems on the earth, is as a result to people who do not know... or care to know, and love true righteousness. It all stems from unrighteousness.
The scriptures say,
The result of true righteousness will be peace, and the fruitage of true righteousness will be lasting tranquility and security. Isaiah 32:17

That's a good thing, is it not? Would you not love to have lasting tranquility and security?
Scripture says it results from true righteousness.
I see that as factual, from the evidence.

While the wicked continue to flourish, and wickedness abounds, I am grateful for God's patients, because, if he had cleaned house earlier, a lot of people would not have had the opportunity to cleanup their life... myself included.

The earth is such a beautiful place. All is needs is an earth full of righteousness, and... man.
I say, Come Lord Jesus. Let your kingdom come. Let your will be done on earth, as it is in heaven.

 

[nPeace]

Of course, people believe what they believe, with a greater or lesser degree of certainty. If I thought your beliefs were more likely to be correct then my own, I would change my beliefs.

I have a feeling you would, but I can't be sure.

Be clear though that my little pretend scenario does not represent my own beliefs. I was just trying to create a situation where your most basic beliefs were shown to be wrong.

Well, you failed. I can't say I am sorry. Sorry.

I'll throw something in here, which may surprise you. I am not trying, in any way, to change your beliefs. If I thought it was possible, I would immediately stop.

You would? You are right. I am surprised. Why would you stop when you have an opportunity to persuade someone?
Is it because you are not sure of your beliefs?

A difficult question, believe it or not. I currently lack belief in god/s, which many say is the definition of atheism. For agnostic, it depends what you mean. It can be the belief that god/s is unknowable. The usage these days is more that the agnostic is not sure about the existence of god/s. I'm sure you see the essential difference.

Let's say I try to apply scientific methods to my beliefs, and there are some things I can't reach a conclusion on.

I understand.
We live in a very confused world.
Terms come along; Change; and move along... or stick around in their altered form, if it's popular.

Strictly "apes", of which we are one species, evolved from a common ancestor that was not an ape.

So, how are you an ape?

You said

Nope. The Bible has to be "spiritually discerned"? Seriously?
Where did you read that, buddy?

I was just responding to the question "where did you read that" and quoted the exact words from the Bible.

I don't agree you quoted those words from the Bible.
The Bible does not say the Bible has to be spiritually discerned.
That's actually suggesting what... Children and adults cannot understand the Bible, unless they have spiritual discernment?
Perhaps, I had better let you explain what spiritual discernment is. Can you explain?

Let me ask you this.
Do you know when you are hungry... physically, that is ? How would you describe that - knowing?

"These things often leave a on my mind about your inner self."

You have no idea what my "inner self" might or might not be. It struck a nerve because I have, in discussions with Christians, been told so many times that I effectively don't know my own mind. I don't suggest that your beliefs come from some kind of mental or emotional confusion. Maybe they do, but it's not for me to suggest it.

The is there because I don't know, but there is a

No big deal.

It could be... but I'm glad to know you won't let it be.

 

[Alien826]

Well, you failed. I can't say I am sorry. Sorry.

I failed to construct a counter factual "what if" situation? Of course I didn't! It's easy, anyone can do it.

If you mean I failed to set out statements about God that are factually correct, of course I failed, because I wasn't trying to.

You would? You are right. I am surprised. Why would you stop when you have an opportunity to persuade someone?
Is it because you are not sure of your beliefs?

Not at all. It's because I might harm them by doing so. How do I know what effect having a person's beliefs shattered might have on them? Oh, if I changed someone's mind on some trivial thing I wouldn't worry too much. But destroying a person's entire worldview?

I discuss things with you because I consider that the chance of convincing you of anything is around a billion trillionth of a percentage point.

I understand.
We live in a very confused world.
Terms come along; Change; and move along... or stick around in their altered form, if it's popular.

Are you going to tell me what you wanted to get my thinking on?

So, how are you an ape?

Humans are classified in the sub-group of primates known as the Great Apes (orang-utans, gorillas, chimpanzees and humans). Look it up. It's interesting how various species are classified.

I don't agree you quoted those words from the Bible.

Yes I did! I copy/pasted it directly from a Bible website. What are you on about?

The Bible does not say the Bible has to be spiritually discerned.

It says. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. Hmm it doesn't actually say "Bible". Is that what you mean?

That's actually suggesting what... Children and adults cannot understand the Bible, unless they have spiritual discernment?
Perhaps, I had better let you explain what spiritual discernment is. Can you explain?

Of course not, it makes no sense to me. It's just what Christians have said to me in the past, quoting that verse. I guess they thought the Bible was a "thing of the Spirit".

Let me ask you this.
Do you know when you are hungry... physically, that is ? How would you describe that - knowing?

What has that got to do with it?

 

[blü 2]

Not only does God keep his congregation clean, by removing people like Ananias and Sapphira, but God promised to clean the earth. Revelation 11:18.

So after denying Jesus when the chips were down, St Peter is a blot to be removed then ─ cowardly or treacherous, it doesn't really matter which? They offend even once, kill 'em and have done with it? I assume only a clerical error by some bored, weary angel in the prosecution section let him live ─ is that right?

I'm all for that, because the reason we have problems on the earth, is as a result to people who do not know... or care to know, and love true righteousness. It all stems from unrighteousness.

So yeah, you'd have killed Ananias, then?

Wow, morally we live in different universes, you and I.

But at least we know your answer to your question ─ yes indeed, you say, cruelty ─ and arbitrary murder ─ are fine whenever nPeace thinks they're fine.

 

[nPeace]

I failed to construct a counter factual "what if" situation? Of course I didn't! It's easy, anyone can do it.

If you mean I failed to set out statements about God that are factually correct, of course I failed, because I wasn't trying to.

You failed to show where my most basic beliefs were wrong.

Not at all. It's because I might harm them by doing so. How do I know what effect having a person's beliefs shattered might have on them? Oh, if I changed someone's mind on some trivial thing I wouldn't worry too much. But destroying a person's entire worldview?

I discuss things with you because I consider that the chance of convincing you of anything is around a billion trillionth of a percentage point.

That seem contrary to what you said before, though
I was just trying to create a situation where your most basic beliefs were shown to be wrong.

Are you going to tell me what you wanted to get my thinking on?

I'll let you know.
I'm a bit busy currently. So, perhaps two weeks from now.
I'll give you a mention.

Humans are classified in the sub-group of primates known as the Great Apes (orang-utans, gorillas, chimpanzees and humans). Look it up. It's interesting how various species are classified.

...and you evolved from... a non ape?

Yes I did! I copy/pasted it directly from a Bible website. What are you on about?

It says. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. Hmm it doesn't actually say "Bible". Is that what you mean?

Of course not, it makes no sense to me. It's just what Christians have said to me in the past, quoting that verse. I guess they thought the Bible was a "thing of the Spirit".

Right. Exactly. Words can be tricky.

What has that got to do with it?

Everything. Can you answer?

 

[nPeace]

So after denying Jesus when the chips were down, St Peter is a blot to be removed then ─ cowardly or treacherous, it doesn't really matter which? They offend even once, kill 'em and have done with it? I assume only a clerical error by some bored, weary angel in the prosecution section let him live ─ is that right?


So yeah, you'd have killed Ananias, then?

Not me. I am not judge and executioner.
Would you tell that to the cop(s) who arrested Ted Bundy?

Wow, morally we live in different universes, you and I.

Yes we do.

But at least we know your answer to your question ─ yes indeed, you say, cruelty ─ and arbitrary murder ─ are fine whenever nPeace thinks they're fine.

That's your twisted view. It's not the truth... but it certainly highlights how moral you are when it comes to telling the truth.

 

[Alien826]

You failed to show where my most basic beliefs were wrong.

I didn't try. As I said.

That seem contrary to what you said before, though
I was just trying to create a situation where your most basic beliefs were shown to be wrong.

It was a "just pretend" kind of thing. I tried to think of things that I felt would come as a great surprise to you if they were true.

Sometimes I think you deliberately misunderstand what I say in an attempt to confuse me. I don't want to think that about you. Please tell me it's not true. You are replying to a lot of posts now, maybe you don't take time to read carefully?

I'll let you know.
I'm a bit busy currently. So, perhaps two weeks from now.
I'll give you a mention.

OK

...and you evolved from... a non ape?

Correct. Humans, including you, did.

Everything. Can you answer?

There's a technique that teachers sometimes use where they don't spell things out exactly but let the pupils work things out for themselves. It's a good thing for pupils to learn that way, because it makes them use their brains. I hope you don't see our relationship as teacher/pupil?

I'll answer because I'm curious about how that can relate to anything we are discussing here, but please try set your arguments out more clearly, it's tiresome having to answer questions before I know where you are going with it all.

Let me ask you this.
Do you know when you are hungry... physically, that is ? How would you describe that - knowing?

I get a sensation of hunger. You could say I know I'm hungry.

 

[nPeace]

Sometimes I think you deliberately misunderstand what I say in an attempt to confuse me. I don't want to think that about you. Please tell me it's not true. You are replying to a lot of posts now, maybe you don't take time to read carefully?

Why would I deliberately misunderstand you?
I don't enjoy typing more than I enjoy reading, you know.

Correct. Humans, including you, did.

That's your belief.
You are a product of special creation. Not evolution. You did not come from anything but a human.

There's a technique that teachers sometimes use where they don't spell things out exactly but let the pupils work things out for themselves. It's a good thing for pupils to learn that way, because it makes them use their brains. I hope you don't see our relationship as teacher/pupil?

I'll answer because I'm curious about how that can relate to anything we are discussing here, but please try set your arguments out more clearly, it's tiresome having to answer questions before I know where you are going with it all.

Let me ask you this.
Do you know when you are hungry... physically, that is ? How would you describe that - knowing?

I get a sensation of hunger. You could say I know I'm hungry.

I do use teaching techniques... and there are many.
In this case, I am using your answer as an object lesson.
Just as you can discern that you are physically hungry... you call it a sensation. I suppose you call it a physical sensation. People discern a spiritual hunger - that is, a sensation that indicates a need to be filled spiritually.

Once you are satisfied, physically, that is, you know that too. Your belly may be full, or not, but that need has been met.
Likewise, a person that is filled spiritually.

Let's move from the belly, to the head - our minds.
How do you know if your thinking is sound, correct, worth taking seriously? This is a serious question.
I'll let you know where I am going.

The verse in 1 Corinthians 2:14, says "a physical man does not accept* the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot get to know them, because they are examined spiritually."
The things of the spirit of God, are not words taught by human wisdom, but words taught by the spirit of God.

Can you see the difference between wisdom from humans, and wisdom from God?
We can continue from there, after you answer my question, in blue.

 

[Alien826]

Why would I deliberately misunderstand you?
I don't enjoy typing more than I enjoy reading, you know.

OK, lets move on.

That's your belief.
You are a product of special creation. Not evolution. You did not come from anything but a human.

That's your belief.

I do use teaching techniques... and there are many.
In this case, I am using your answer as an object lesson.
Just as you can discern that you are physically hungry... you call it a sensation. I suppose you call it a physical sensation. People discern a spiritual hunger - that is, a sensation that indicates a need to be filled spiritually.

Under your belief system, yes.

Once you are satisfied, physically, that is, you know that too. Your belly may be full, or not, but that need has been met.
Likewise, a person that is filled spiritually.

Under your belief system, yes.

I think I know that feeling, but you have to establish that it has anything to do with God (and establish the existence of God while you're at it).

Let's move from the belly, to the head - our minds.
How do you know if your thinking is sound, correct, worth taking seriously? This is a serious question.
I'll let you know where I am going.

I'll answer here. It's a pragmatic thing, generally. If I think that buses generally run on time, I get to the bus stop at the advertised time, or a few minutes early to allow for small variations. If I find that I miss the bus on a regular basis, I adjust my idea that buses (at least on that route) run on time. It's a trivial example, and I don't actually travel by bus, but expand it to include my thinking in general. Thought -> observe reality -> change thought if necessary.

As I can't personally test everything, I rely on people that I feel are reliable, until such time as I find otherwise. By "people" I include written material.

I freely admit that some of what I think is true is not. Exactly what is wrong I have no idea until experience informs me.

The verse in 1 Corinthians 2:14, says "a physical man does not accept* the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot get to know them, because they are examined spiritually."
The things of the spirit of God, are not words taught by human wisdom, but words taught by the spirit of God.

Can you see the difference between wisdom from humans, and wisdom from God?

I can, but it's just by applying your belief system. I'm sure you see that without a belief in a God, and following that a belief that the Bible is the "word of God", that doesn't get us very far. What I'm saying is that I see how your belief system leads to that conclusion.

We can continue from there, after you answer my question, in blue.

Go ahead.

 

[YoursTrue]

Cruelty is never justified.

It may sometimes happen that one must take action to protect self or others -- and this may very well result in collateral harm (either to perpetrators or to innocent by-standers), but as such harm is unintended, that does not constitute cruelty.

Cruelty is deliberately causing suffering, and even if that is directed towards someone else who has caused you suffering, the fact that you are able to inflict it means that the positions have changed, and they can no longer harm you, and you can harm them. In such situations, your part is ended. You need do nothing more. To do more -- to be deliberately cruel -- now speaks only to you, and who you are.

Let me ask this question: can a force (such as gravity) feel anything? I doubt someone will say yes, gravity can feel emotions. But people can fall from a balcony and hurt themselves due to gravity. Can we say that gravity is cruel? Of course not, since it has no intent, but is doing what gravity does... Now the question goes to evolution. Can those who believe in evolution say it is cruel? Hardly, because it (evolution) just happened (by natural selection, of course, so it is said). Therefore it cannot be cruel, would you agree with that?

 

[blü 2]

Not me. I am not judge and executioner.

Please explain to me the moral ground that singles Ananias out but leaves Ted Bundy free to do multiple murders of innocent people?

Or if God has to be directly involved, why Ananias was killed for retaining some of his own money but paedophile priests run around free to repeatedly offend unless stopped by other humans?

If you don't know, just say so.

 

[nPeace]

OK, lets move on.

That's your belief.

Under your belief system, yes.

Under your belief system, yes.

I think I know that feeling, but you have to establish that it has anything to do with God (and establish the existence of God while you're at it).

I'll answer here. It's a pragmatic thing, generally. If I think that buses generally run on time, I get to the bus stop at the advertised time, or a few minutes early to allow for small variations. If I find that I miss the bus on a regular basis, I adjust my idea that buses (at least on that route) run on time. It's a trivial example, and I don't actually travel by bus, but expand it to include my thinking in general. Thought -> observe reality -> change thought if necessary.

As I can't personally test everything, I rely on people that I feel are reliable, until such time as I find otherwise. By "people" I include written material.

I freely admit that some of what I think is true is not. Exactly what is wrong I have no idea until experience informs me.

I can, but it's just by applying your belief system. I'm sure you see that without a belief in a God, and following that a belief that the Bible is the "word of God", that doesn't get us very far. What I'm saying is that I see how your belief system leads to that conclusion.

Go ahead.

Well, there you go. But a physical man does not accept the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot get to know them, because they are examined spiritually. 1 Corinthians 2:14
That's it.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Let me ask this question: can a force (such as gravity) feel anything? I doubt someone will say yes, gravity can feel emotions. But people can fall from a balcony and hurt themselves due to gravity. Can we say that gravity is cruel? Of course not, since it has no intent, but is doing what gravity does... Now the question goes to evolution. Can those who believe in evolution say it is cruel? Hardly, because it (evolution) just happened (by natural selection, of course, so it is said). Therefore it cannot be cruel, would you agree with that?

Of course. In the post you quoted, I said "deliberate" and "deliberately." That takes thinking. Evolution doesn't think, and has no intention.

 

[nPeace]

Please explain to me the moral ground that singles Ananias out but leaves Ted Bundy free to do multiple murders of innocent people?

Biden rules U.S.A.
Putin rules Russia.

Biden justly captures and imprisons lawbreaking Americans. He does not go into Russia, and do the same.
Putin ahem captures and imprisons ahem Russians. He had better not do so in the U.S.A.

God justly judges, and executes those lawbreakers, in his domain... that is, under his kingdom. The congregation is under his kingdom.
God does not judge and execute those lawbreakers, in the world (including Bundys) - ruled by the Devil, as it is not under his kingdom.
When God's kingdom takes over the world at Armageddon, it becomes his domain.
Then, God will justly judge and execute anyone in that domain... who breaks his laws.

Or if God has to be directly involved, why Ananias was killed for retaining some of his own money but paedophile priests run around free to repeatedly offend unless stopped by other humans?

Ananias was not killed for retaining his money... for the hundredth time.
Pedophile priest run free for now, because... See reason above.

If you don't know, just say so.

I know... for the hundredth time.

 

[Twilight Hue]

That's what I like. Politictions hitting each other!

*grin*

 

[YoursTrue]

Of course. In the post you quoted, I said "deliberate" and "deliberately." That takes thinking. Evolution doesn't think, and has no intention.

At least we agree on something.

 

[blü 2]

God justly judges, and executes those lawbreakers, in his domain... that is, under his kingdom. The congregation is under his kingdom.

No, your bald assertion that God is just is, as we see from the bible's account, complete nonsense.

Is the expulsion of Adam and Eve from the Garden just? No, according to the text it was God protecting [his] own position out of fear that Adam and Eve would become [his] rivals by obtaining both knowledge of good and evil AND living forever (Genesis 3:22-23). No other reason is offered.

Do you think God's orders in Deuteronomy 7:1-2 represent justice? "When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations ... then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them and show them no mercy." (Repeated at 20:16). You yourself have no problem with the massacre of populations after they've been conquered, I take it?

Joshua 6:17: "And [Jericho] and all that is within it shall be devoted to the Lord for destruction; only Rahab the harlot and all who are with her in her house shall live ... 21 Then they utterly destroyed all in the city, both men and women, young and old, oxen, sheep and asses, with the edge of the sword." Not even Putin has quite gone that far, campaigns of murder even though victory is already achieved. But it seems like a good and proper idea to you.

Judges 11:29-39 ─ Is the deal with Jephthah just, a human sacrifice in return for military success? If the military success was just, why was a sacrifice necessary? If it was not just, how could the sacrifice make it just?

On and on, right up to the sending of Jesus on not simply a suicide mission but one requiring a horrible death, for reasons neither you nor I can provide.

You appear to think that cruelty is fine whenever your team does it, and not otherwise.

You abandon your own moral compass and approve these things, slavery, mass rapes, murderous religious intolerance and so on just because they were the norm in the latter Bronze Age and into the 1st century CE.

Or do you not have a moral compass of your own?