Is critiquing the gay community the new antisemitic behavior?

[Mr. Skittles]

The reason I titled this is because there appears to be. a rushed to judgment in categorizing someone as "homophobic" or "anti-semitic." I use the concept of anti-semitism because due to what I read from blogs from Jewish websites, articles, and plain ole' conversation, there appears to be a rush to judgment on an individual(s) critique on Israel and that being labeled as anti-semitic. Similarly, if someone does not believe in homosexuality somehow they are labeled as having an irrational fear thus bring called "homophobic." For example back in 2008-2009 in west hollywood an owner of a popular resturant which gay patrons attended frequently apparently supported the initiative of not allowing gays to marry. Some how gay patrons caught wind of it and protested outside. Some threw objects at the building hitting patrons inside (I assume people were on an outside patio). This resulted in a loss of business from gay customers. Now, whatever this owner did was his/her personal business but I sense that if one does not agree with accepting homosexuality they are labeled homophobic. Similarly if someone criticize Israel they are somehow anti-semitic.

Now from personal beliefs do I agree with homosexual lifestyle? Not entirely. The reason why is because of personal experiences. I used to be hit on by gay men and transsexuals and apparently there is this idea that all straight men are inhetently gay and its not gay if 1) You don't tell anyone and 2) If the transsexual considers himself a female its not being gay or having gay tendencies. Now does me criticizing this as a problem in the gay community label me as a homophobe? Personally I don't think so but many straight guys go through this so my thing is there should be a dialogue and some form of understanding between the communities as to what is considered hateful or constructive criticism.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

You clearly have issues.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Now, whatever this owner did was his/her personal business but I sense that if one does not agree with accepting homosexuality they are labeled homophobic.

When he decided to make his views public, it ceased to be his personal business.

Homophobia isn't really a matter of fear. Homophobia is just the word that gets used when someone is a jerk toward gay people. Being a jerk is never going to win you fans.

Now does me criticizing this as a problem in the gay community label me as a homophobe? Personally I don't think so but many straight guys go through this so my thing is there should be a dialogue and some form of understanding between the communities as to what is considered hateful or constructive criticism.

Trying to deny people their rights basically amounts to deliberately hurting them. When one person deliberately hurts another, this is a sign that they're not interested in dialogue or understanding.

Do you also complain about having your arm hurt if someone you're trying to punch blocks their blow?

 

[Alceste]

If you find yourself using terms like "constructive criticism" in reference to something you describe as "the gay lifestyle", you just might be a bigot. Have you also got "constructive criticism" you would like to share with people who choose "the black lifestyle" or "the Chinese lifestyle"?

I've never met a bigot who would describe themselves as a bigot. In fact, if you think you might be a bigot, there seems to be less of a chance of actually being one. If you find yourself having to vehemently deny that you're a bigot on a regular basis, it might be time for a little quiet contemplation.

 

[ChristineES]

I think it's way too easy to judge someone as a bigot nowadays. But sometimes I think people have good reason to be oversensitive.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

You clearly have issues.

Well, he's someone who proudly claims to have ticked off an entire class full of women in a Women's Studies class in college, and thinks it a victory of sorts.

 

[Alceste]

Well, he's someone who proudly claims to have ticked off an entire class full of women in a Women's Studies class in college, and thinks it a victory of sorts.

Not women - "golden vaginas".

 

[ChristineES]

A person shouldn't critique anyone else's lifestyle unless it's his or her own or it effects him or her in some way. Otherwise, live and let live. That's a motto I started trying to live by since I was a child and I heard people say nasty things about people they didn't even know and who didn't effect them in any way (not gay, though, that was a taboo subject back them or I think-- no one ever talked about it) George Harrison said that gossip was "The Devil's Radio" (remember the song).

 

[otokage007]

The reason I titled this is because there appears to be. a rushed to judgment in categorizing someone as "homophobic" or "anti-semitic." I use the concept of anti-semitism because due to what I read from blogs from Jewish websites, articles, and plain ole' conversation, there appears to be a rush to judgment on an individual(s) critique on Israel and that being labeled as anti-semitic. Similarly, if someone does not believe in homosexuality somehow they are labeled as having an irrational fear thus bring called "homophobic." For example back in 2008-2009 in west hollywood an owner of a popular resturant which gay patrons attended frequently apparently supported the initiative of not allowing gays to marry. Some how gay patrons caught wind of it and protested outside. Some threw objects at the building hitting patrons inside (I assume people were on an outside patio). This resulted in a loss of business from gay customers. Now, whatever this owner did was his/her personal business but I sense that if one does not agree with accepting homosexuality they are labeled homophobic. Similarly if someone criticize Israel they are somehow anti-semitic.

Of course, they are homophobic. How would u call them?

Now from personal beliefs do I agree with homosexual lifestyle? Not entirely. The reason why is because of personal experiences. I used to be hit on by gay men and transsexuals and apparently there is this idea that all straight men are inhetently gay and its not gay if 1) You don't tell anyone and 2) If the transsexual considers himself a female its not being gay or having gay tendencies. Now does me criticizing this as a problem in the gay community label me as a homophobe? Personally I don't think so but many straight guys go through this so my thing is there should be a dialogue and some form of understanding between the communities as to what is considered hateful or constructive criticism.

Well, not supporting homosexuality or holding anything against it, is being homophobic, because why would u do such a thing if u are not an homophobic? Going against homosexuality is like going against people that like red color, or ice-cream, or cats (only that in this particular case they like same-sex people). You don't have the right to do such a thing, and if u do, u are an intolerant person, particularly an homophobic.

And for homophobics out there, as my mother says: "Quien tiene hambre, con pan sueña." (in english: "the one that's hungry, dreams about bread"). Which means that homophobic people are just frustrated gay people.

 

[Deut 13:1]

Well, not supporting homosexuality or holding anything against it, is being homophobic, because why would u do such a thing if u are not an homophobic? Going against homosexuality is like going against people that like red color, or ice-cream, or cats. You don't have the right to do such a thing, and if u do, u are an intolerant person, particularly an homophobic.

I'm not homophobic and I don't support homosexuality. It's one of the worst sexual sins that one can commit.

It is important to note that in Judaism, its the actions and not the thoughts that are forbidden.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I'm not homophobic and I don't support homosexuality. It's one of the worst sexual sins that one can commit.

It is important to note that in Judaism, its the actions and not the thoughts that are forbidden.

Is it not also the case that in Judaism, Jewish law isn't applied to non-Jews?

 

[Deut 13:1]

Is it not also the case that in Judaism, Jewish law isn't applied to non-Jews?

Yes and no.

There were certain laws that were for man-kind (the covenant with Noah), and then laws that were meant for the Jews alone (the covenant with Moses).

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Yes and no.

There were certain laws that were for man-kind (the covenant with Noah), and then laws that were meant for the Jews alone (the covenant with Moses).

And whose job was it to enforce these laws among non-Jews?

(edit: ... expecting an answer something like "it was nobody's job but God's")

 

[Deut 13:1]

It depends on what time period you're looking at.... In the Torah, there are guidelines when it came to how the court system would work. On top of that, they went above and beyond in using the death penalty. Everyone has this picture of us going door to door looking for homosexuals with rocks, but we didn't. There were a ton of guidelines to follow and the courts always err on the side of caution. There had to be multiple witnesses to the crime, they had to have complete understanding that what they did was wrong, and chose to do so anyways.

My point is this. Let's just say you're gay and you have a boyfriend. How likely are you to have sexual intercourse in front of witnesses? Not very likely. I don't know of one Torah-observant Jew that flaunts their sex life in front of ANYONE. If you insist on having relations, do so without my knowledge and without showing it in public just as we don't broadcast ourselves and show our relationship in public.

 

[otokage007]

I'm not homophobic and I don't support homosexuality. It's one of the worst sexual sins that one can commit.

It is important to note that in Judaism, its the actions and not the thoughts that are forbidden.

Who are jewish and what is Judaism to demand u to like or dislike something? Aren't homosexuals made by your God? If they were born that way because God wanted it, why would they try to be someone they are not and defy the Almighty?

Don't be a puppet of your belief system, u have the right to like men if you want. Or are u hurting someone by liking men?

 

[ChristineES]

I am not sure if liking a person but not liking something he does necessarily constitutes hatred, though. It's condemning something that's frowned upon the way I see it.

 

[Deut 13:1]

Who are jewish and what is Judaism to demand u to like or dislike something? Aren't homosexuals made by your God? If they were born that way because God wanted it, why would they try to be someone they are not and defy the Almighty?

Don't be a puppet of your belief system, u have the right to like men if you want. Or are u hurting someone by liking men?

Using your argument are murderers made by HaShem? Why punish them?

If you were to argue that homosexuality is not a choice but hard-wired into people then I think that is a enticing debate. Again, Jews are judged based on actions, not the thought.

I don't believe in homosexuality, but you don't see me knocking on your door and checking to see if you're a homosexual in the same way you don't come knocking on my door to check for Jews. I'm not trying to go out and force you to change yours or to condemn you like others. I'm simply saying that one can be against homosexuality and not be a homophobic or a homosexual in hiding as you say.

I have my beliefs and you have yours, can't we be happy that we both live in a society that were not knocking on each others doors checking beliefs?

 

[otokage007]

I have my beliefs and you have yours, can't we be happy that we both live in a society that were not knocking on each others doors checking beliefs?

Of course not. If we start thinking murder, rob and rape is ok, and is just my personal belief, society will eventualy fall into chaos and someday rapists won't go to jail.

So no, I can not stand u being against homosexuality, because it is cruel and a really perverse way of thinking. To not allow others to do what they want when they are not hurting anyone, is to repress them and make them unhappy. It is because of people like you that homosexuals these days have so many problems in society and requires a huge amount of effort for them to tell the truth about their sexuality.

 

[Quagmire]

Of course not. If we start thinking murder, rob and rape is ok, and is just my personal belief, society will eventualy fall into chaos and someday rapists won't go to jail.

So no, I can not stand u being against homosexuality, because it is cruel and a really perverse way of thinking. To not allow others to do what they want when they are not hurting anyone, . . .

There's a difference between disapproving of something and "not allowing" someone to do it.

Ironically, you're the one mandating someone else's actions here. The other person is just expressing an opinion.

 

[otokage007]

There's a difference between disapproving of something and "not allowing" someone to do it.

Ironically, you're the one mandating someone else's actions here. The other person is just expressing an opinion.

So if I say: I'm on favour that women should be raped and children beheaded, am I "just expressing an opinion?"

And of course, he isn't a judge, he can not "allow" nor "not allow" someone to do something, thank god.