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Featured Is Christendom spiritually famished ?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Neuropteron, Aug 30, 2018.

  1. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    It seems to me that people in this world feed themselves on a steady diet of violence without realizing that it is desensitizing them to a great degree. We should be far removed from the depravity of gratuitous violence as civilized human beings in an age when reason and knowledge should equip us to be able to rise above such base instincts. So, why do humans "love violence"? Why do they feed on it in movies, music and video games and freely "kill" and engage in violent acts when its just "pretend", though they would never do it in real life? Do you not see that as sin working in flawed human flesh? Isn't it something to avoid, rather that to feed the mind and heart?

    Comparing it to avoiding the apocryphal books of the Bible is a poor comparison IMO because there is nothing in those books that I would accept as coming from God. If I want entertainment, I would seek something that didn't offend Jehovah.

    Psalm 11:4-5...
    "...Jehovah’s throne is in the heavens.
    His own eyes see, his watchful eyes examine the sons of men.
    5 Jehovah examines the righteous one as well as the wicked one;
    He hates anyone who loves violence."


    Do we have Jehovah's view of things? Remember Jesus saying that a man who keeps 'looking at a woman with lustful eyes, was tantamount to committing adultery in his heart'? Doesn't the same principle apply to violence?
     
  2. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    I am alone. How could I get through the day otherwise?
     
  3. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    I don't force you to believe.
     
  4. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Since Samson was a man born from God with special abilities without having personally chosen his life-course, surely God intended that his activities should teach his people something? What do we glean from the story of Samson? (regardless of the comic book appearance of the story)

    First of all he was a "Judge" in Israel and his mother was told that her son who was to be a "Nazirite" from birth and “take the lead in saving Israel out of the hand of the Philistines.” (Judges 13:1-5, 24; 16:17) The very nature of his commission showed that he did not come under the law prescribing that Nazirites not touch dead bodies. (Numbers 6:2-9) It should also be noted that this law applied to persons who voluntarily took a vow of Naziriteship; but in Samson’s case, the requirements that applied were those specifically stated to his mother by Jehovah’s angel.

    But Samson was also human and he had free will just as we all do. His relationship with Delilah was doomed from the beginning because she was not a worshipper of Jehovah. She schemed for money to betray the secret of his strength. While Samson was sleeping with his head on her lap, Delilah had his hair shaved off. Upon awakening, Samson no longer had Jehovah’s spirit, for he had allowed himself to get into a position that led to the termination of his Naziriteship. Not the hair itself, but what it stood for, that is, Samson’s special relationship with Jehovah as a Nazirite, was the source of his strength. With the end of that relationship, Samson was no different from any other man. Therefore, the Philistines were able to blind him, bind him with copper fetters, and put him to work as a grinder in the prison house. (Judges 16:4-21)

    While Samson languished in prison, the Philistines arranged for a great sacrifice to their god Dagon, to whom they attributed their success in having captured Samson. Great throngs, including all the axis lords, were assembled in the house used for Dagon worship. On the roof alone there were 3,000 men and women. The merry Philistines had Samson, whose hair had meanwhile grown luxuriantly, brought out of prison to provide amusement for them. Upon his arrival, Samson asked the boy who was leading him to let him feel the pillars that supported the structure. He then prayed to Jehovah....Samson braced himself against the two supporting pillars and “bent himself with power,” causing the house to collapse. This resulted in his own death and that of more Philistines than he had killed in his entire lifetime, thus in his death, Samson fulfilled his commission and humiliated the false god that the Philistines had accredited with their victory.

    (Info taken from Samson — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY)

    Comic book or not, there are powerful lessons in the account. There is no one like Samson in the scriptures.

    It is a shame to me that Christendom reads the "rich man and Lazarus" as proof of heaven and hell, when it is no such thing. But they will not have it. It was all totally pictorial, like all of Jesus' other parables.
     
    #64 Deeje, Aug 31, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2018
  5. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    It may have seemed cruel to our sensibilities but the overall moral of the story tells us much about what satan is up to and how far he would go if Jehovah did not put limits on his activities. Imagine if he was permitted to do as he pleased?! Life is hard enough without it being 100 time more difficult and tragic. Remember too that the giver of life can restore it just as easily. Time is no barrier for Jehovah concerning the resurrection. The devil made two claims regarding Job and by extension they apply to all of us.....

    "Is it for nothing that Job has feared God? 10 Have you not put up a protective hedge around him and his house and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his livestock has spread out in the land. 11 But, for a change, stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your very face.” 12 Then Jehovah said to Satan: “Look! Everything that he has is in your hand. Only do not lay your hand on the man himself!” So Satan went out from the presence of Jehovah."
    (Job 1:9-12)

    So satan was implying that humans would only serve God if there was something in it for them....the material blessings. If they were taken away, would humans still feel grateful to God and want to continue to serve him?

    When Job passed that test, not content, the devil went in for his second round....Jehovah said....
    "He is still holding firmly to his integrity, even though you try to incite me against him to destroy him for no reason.” 4 But Satan answered Jehovah: “Skin for skin. A man will give everything that he has for his life. 5 But, for a change, stretch out your hand and strike his bone and flesh, and he will surely curse you to your very face.”
    6 Then Jehovah said to Satan: “Look! He is in your hand! Only do not take his life!”
    (Job 2:3-6)

    Job again passed this test with flying colors.....only to face his three so called "comforters" who implied that God was punishing Job for the bad deeds he must have committed......can we imagine going through all that...not knowing that it was a test from the devil and imagining that God was doing it, but not knowing why. He was the most righteous man in existence, and despite the severest test imaginable, he still he kept his faith in tact, never once blaming God for his afflictions. He is there for a reason and his recovery after all of that is nothing short of a miracle.

    "So Jehovah blessed the last part of Job’s life more than the beginning, .....13 He also came to have seven more sons and three more daughters. ......
    16 After this Job lived for 140 years, and he saw his children and his grandchildren—four generations. 17 Finally Job died, after a long and satisfying life."
    (Job 42:12-16)

    Job represents all of us because the devil said..."A man will give everything that he has for his life"...not just Job, but humans in general. What do we prove by our choices? Every day, by our actions we show God who we are....."faithful in what is least" means that we will be faithful also in the big tests.

    This is how I see things.
     
    #65 Deeje, Aug 31, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2018
  6. viole

    viole Metaphysical Naturalist
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    Well, you could. I have nothing against that. I like it when people force me to believe the weirdest stuff.

    However, the result will be the same. Obviously.

    Ciao

    - viole
     
  7. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    Some believe there are far more rules than God demands. There is a Hymn called "Prone To Wander".

    Sometimes we mindlessly sin, or not and suffer painful things so extreme that it challenges our will to live. Some churches are merciless about challenging someone for their sins, real or imagined. Being a past Mormon, I can say that most I encountered were sweet, healing and not condemning. As with any group there are those who need to learn mercy.
     
  8. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    I believe that belief is led by faith and faith is a gift of God.
    Ephesians 2:8-9 King James Version (KJV)
    8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

    9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    I came to faith and belief after being inexplicably blessed after suffering horribly for many years. I wanted to know who had blessed me and asked him to show me. It took me a long time to get over the anger and bitterness, but he helped with that also.
     
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  9. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    The problem I have with this post, is that it implies the crime rate of Jehovah’s Witnesses is any better than the crime rate of general Christians without citing any statistics to prove as much.

    In my opinion more evidence is required.
     
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  10. Avoice1C

    Avoice1C the means are the ends

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    Have you been baptized?

    Mar 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
     
  11. A Vestigial Mote

    A Vestigial Mote Well-Known Member

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    Who is it that can definitively state that life has no meaning without understanding the question of whether or not "spirituality" has any meaning whatsoever? You? Recognizing that you don't get to make that determination for anyone else is a very fundamental sort of thing to understand - though very few seem to understand it.

    And I conclude that, for my life's purposes, the "spiritual" that everyone likes to throw around in discussion and prescription of "life-lessons" is amorphous enough and enough without any valid/real backing that it is completely safe to simply discard and ignore it.

    And this is wisdom? Did the man know ANYONE who subscribed to a different religion or set of beliefs? This statement seems extremely myopic in my estimation.
     
  12. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    Um yeah, like about 5 or 6 times. It seems like the MoRmOn Baptism had the most effect, but don't tell them.
     
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  13. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Who was Mark? Was he "baptized", and is he dead? What was he saved from?

    Were the "brood of vipers" "baptized" (Matthew 3:7), and were they "thrown into the fire" (Matthew 3:10)?
     
  14. Agent

    Agent Member

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    Greetings Mr Anderson.
     
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