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Is Animism Compatible with Atheism?

Sha'irullah

رسول الآلهة
Is some form of Animism or Panpsychism fully compatible with Atheism in your own opinion?
Animism is not traditionally accepted as a form of theism and is often regarded as the precursor to theism.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Technically, perhaps. But I would hope that the sort of skepticism which is often enough associated with atheism would be extended to animism.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Is some form of Animism or Panpsychism fully compatible with Atheism in your own opinion?
Animism is not traditionally accepted as a form of theism and is often regarded as the precursor to theism.

Technically yes, but in practice it is an unconfortable or at least unstable match.

When push comes to shove, animism isn't all that separated from theism.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Is some form of Animism or Panpsychism fully compatible with Atheism in your own opinion?
Animism is not traditionally accepted as a form of theism and is often regarded as the precursor to theism.

no, totally different. Atheism is related to the 'major religions', and those major religions, in a certain theological context at that.

Animism doesn't preclude theistic beliefs.
 
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LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
no, totally different. Atheism is related to the 'major religions', and those major religions, in a certain theological context at that.

Excuse me? Atheism does not need any religion to define itself in relation to.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
no, totally different. Atheism is related to the 'major religions', and those major religions, in a certain theological context at that.

Glad to see you've become an atheist, Disciple! Welcome aboard!
 

Kilgore Trout

Misanthropic Humanist
Technically, perhaps. But I would hope that the sort of skepticism which is often enough associated with atheism would be extended to animism.

This. Additionally, I doubt most people who think that animals, plants, and/or other objects have "souls" would classify themselves as "atheists." Anyone who does is probably confused, or is trying to be confusing.
 

Sha'irullah

رسول الآلهة
no, totally different. Atheism is related to the 'major religions', and those major religions, in a certain theological context at that.

Animism doesn't preclude theistic beliefs.

Um no, Atheism refers to EVERY single concept of god.
I myself view the notion of a spirit to be synonymous with a god along with angels. They are all the same
 

Sha'irullah

رسول الآلهة
Animism doesn't preclude theistic belief.

This is why I am making this assertion. Animism only implies a soul. In case nobody knows, the concept of a soul is not well defined much like a god but unlike a god it does have an etymological root that forms a basis which is life. This makes it to some extent synonymous with hylozoism os panpsychism. Animism is a relatively new concept after all that was given as a label.
 

Alt Thinker

Older than the hills
It depends on what one means by atheism. These days it is usually taken to mean disbelief in all things supernatural. 'Bean counters' among atheists like to point to the huge number of Buddhist atheists in the world. And it is true that there are no gods per se in Buddhism. Yet one very popular form of Buddhism - Pure Land - definitely has supernatural components. These include saints and an afterlife (the Pure Land).

If one does not believe in any gods but imputes supernatural elements to reality, is that atheism? :shrug:
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Oh I see what you mean. In other conversations that is what I've been told.

You must have misunderstood something. Atheism is "self-existent", so to speak. The word and concept were created by theisms, certainly, but that is something else entirely.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
It depends on what one means by atheism. These days it is usually taken to mean disbelief in all things supernatural. 'Bean counters' among atheists like to point to the huge number of Buddhist atheists in the world. And it is true that there are no gods per se in Buddhism. Yet one very popular form of Buddhism - Pure Land - definitely has supernatural components. These include saints and an afterlife (the Pure Land).

That is indeed an interesting case, as is Vajrayana. I have noticed that actual beliefs about deities run a considerable spectrum in those schools. There are even people who claim Buddha was a God.

If one does not believe in any gods but imputes supernatural elements to reality, is that atheism? :shrug:

Technically yes, but it is a very subtle distintion, of arguable meaning.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
You must have misunderstood something. Atheism is "self-existent", so to speak. The word and concept were created by theisms, certainly, but that is something else entirely.

No, told straight up that it refers only to specific deity concept.
In any case, doesn't matter, I created a thread so people can voice their opinions about it.
 

beenherebeforeagain

Rogue Animist
Premium Member
Is some form of Animism or Panpsychism fully compatible with Atheism in your own opinion?
Animism is not traditionally accepted as a form of theism and is often regarded as the precursor to theism.

Alrighty, then! Let's ask a question about animism and then everyone weigh in on what animists believe, and whether or not it's compatible with some other belief (or nonbelief, if you prefer), without having any input from anyone who actually is an animist....:D

Really, if I hadn't been traveling and incommunicado, I would have jumped right in from the get-go. But, I'm here now, so...

Can't speak to Panpsychism. As to animism: despite Tylor's definition back in the 1800s and the fact that many people have bought his overly-simple description and it shows up in dictionaries and the like, very few animist belief systems actually posit anything like animals, rocks, etc., being or having souls. More recent investigations (see for example Graham Harvey) often focuses on the idea that indigenous peoples treat at least some (very rarely ALL) entities in their environment as persons, who deserve respect and a proper social relationship from humans. Sometimes this includes some entities that we westerners would classify as plants and animals, and others whom we would classify as rocks, water, storms and other inanimate phenomena and objects. Sometimes this includes entities that are not tied to material forms, but by no means is this true in all cultures. Usually, these other "persons" are seen as sharing some inherent quality like that of humans, something that westerners usually term soul, spirit, or anima, but those terms carry western meanings that indigenous peoples many not share. these other persons are considered "natural," not supernatural the way we westerners view them.

While many animist cultures include belief in something that might meet the western classification of "gods," and some even acknowledge a creator being or "all-father" type of deity, this is not known in all such cultures. There are some that appear to not have any "gods" at all.

However, one of the overriding features of animism, according to the literature of the field since the early 1990s, is that animism in indigenous cultures is not much about belief, but it is about practicing the correct rituals and other respectful behaviors in the individual's interactions with the non-human persons, so that they will continue to respect the agreements that allow us to kill and eat them (if they are alive) or otherwise make use of them (if inanimate). In return, humans do things to increase their numbers and the quality of their lives, etc. The reciprocal part of the relationship, as it were.

Now then, as an animist who knows something about the beliefs of some other animists, and one who practices animism himself, I would suggest that most animists are non-theists because, frankly, theism is concerned with "God" or gods--which is something that doesn't really compute in most animist systems because those are western concepts. Stretching theism to include non-human persons seems a bit much, from my perspective.:yes:
 

beenherebeforeagain

Rogue Animist
Premium Member
This is why I am making this assertion. Animism only implies a soul. In case nobody knows, the concept of a soul is not well defined much like a god but unlike a god it does have an etymological root that forms a basis which is life. This makes it to some extent synonymous with hylozoism os panpsychism. Animism is a relatively new concept after all that was given as a label.


Please see my response to the OP, immediately above. Animism as animists understand it does not imply a soul in the western sense--it implies personhood and therefore a need to show proper respect to someone we may kill and eat, or who may kill and eat us. Or otherwise need to have a proper social relationship with. Animism as introduced by Tylor and reinforced by generations of anthropologists and sociologists of religion is a western conception that attempts to shoehorn beliefs and practices of indigenous peoples into the western conceptual categories of deity, natural vs supernatural, and so on. That isn't how it works for animists.
 
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LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Now then, as an animist who knows something about the beliefs of some other animists, and one who practices animism himself, I would suggest that most animists are non-theists because, frankly, theism is concerned with "God" or gods--which is something that doesn't really compute in most animist systems because those are western concepts. Stretching theism to include non-human persons seems a bit much, from my perspective.:yes:

That is a fairly good point. While most atheists are skeptics, the two stances are not one and the same. And gods or deities are very abused concepts, at least sometimes very clearly different from most conceptions of spirits.
 
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