Initiated into wicca by sex

[MochaRadha]

Now first let me just say I have no one true religion but I feel I'm starting to lean on eclectic paganism and sanatana dharma. I do think the wiccan rede is beautiful but there a are few things that bother me about wicca,well things ive heard. That gays originally were not allowed into covens or atleast gerald gardner's because he was homophobic. and people could only be initiated by sex. what are your thoughts on this.

 

[Storm]

Wicca is not immune to bigotry. I don't know about the allegation that Gardnerian Wicca requires initiation by sex, so won't comment. I will point out that strictly Gardnerian Wicca is rare these days, by my own experience. The movement has grown.

 

[Storm]

Not angry or aggressive. Just doing my job.

 

[MochaRadha]

i know wicca and hinduism are two different paths my question was towards wicca and whether or not sex is used to initiate people into a coven

 

[Sylvan]

The sex only happens in the 3rd degree, if at all, so is not in any way necessary for involvement. But it IS a big reason that Gardnerians have this restriction re: homosexuality and prefer to only initiate partnered heterosexual witches. It's really more of a result of Gardner's own prejudices and preferences, much like the inclusion of light bdsm and ritual nudity.. I have heard of no other established non-Gardnerian descendant tradition bar homosexuals.. QUITE THE OPPOSITE.

If having partnered heterosexual sex magic is the goal of the highest degree then same-gender relations don't really fit into their paradigm for ritual sex work. This is not necessarily homophobia, and I say this as a homosexual initiated in an Alexandrian coven where bisexuality was the norm. And mad **** was talked on Gardnerians for being so uptight. Also they are rarer then hens teeth these days unless you are in certain parts of England.

The Great Rite, where the high priest and priestess engage in sacred coitus while invoking the Lord and Lady of the rite being celebrated, is a very special sacred circumstance... rare enough I never saw one performed. If I remember correctly only 2nd degrees can attend anyways, which means working closely with said priest and priestess for a minimum of three years and three days.

So if you are encountering either pressure for sex or overt weird homophobia upon the initial encounter with any wiccan/pagan group RUN IMMEDIATELY FAR FAR AWAY. And then come here and give us the dish.. name names,. etc, as these are people who others should be warned away from.

 

[Draka]

There is something called the "Great Rite". This is usually done symbolically though, with dagger and chalice. There are also many different initiation rites that vary coven to coven as well. However, if any coven actually wants to use sex as an initiation requirement, then do not join that coven. To go that far is usually a sign that the coven participants generally go too far in all things and generally don't know what they are doing and are more into what they consider witchcraft than actual Wicca and religious rites and worship. Unless the coven is made up of willing partners/married couples, actual sex isn't usually something you will find within most Wiccan covens.

 

[MochaRadha]

hmmmm so gardnerian wiccans are not homophobic,well not the religion itself

 

[MochaRadha]

There is something called the "Great Rite". This is usually done symbolically though, with dagger and chalice. There are also many different initiation rites that vary coven to coven as well. However, if any coven actually wants to use sex as an initiation requirement, then do not join that coven. To go that far is usually a sign that the coven participants generally go too far in all things and generally don't know what they are doing and are more into what they consider witchcraft than actual Wicca and religious rites and worship. Unless the coven is made up of willing partners/married couples, actual sex isn't usually something you will find within most Wiccan covens.

thats what ive been learning about in wicca since i was sixteen about the great rite,but recently i heard this stuff about sex initiation and how thats so called true wicca

 

[Draka]

Oh, and in all honesty, I do not speak for Gardnerian Wicca. I am Eclectic. Haven't met any Gardnerians either. At least, not that I'm aware of. That said though, I also haven't met any homophobic Wiccans that I know of either.

 

[Draka]

thats what ive been learning about in wicca since i was sixteen about the great rite,but recently i heard this stuff about sex initiation and how thats so called true wicca

"true Wicca" is initiation through sex? Well golly. I guess this last decade or so didn't even count for me then.

 

[MochaRadha]

lol well there are crazy ideas about every religion i guess. are u in a coven or solitary

 

[Draka]

I'm solitary. Though through the years I have had small groups of friends tend to join me for rituals and studies. Never enough or a constant to actually form a coven, but just nice to have company every once and a while and still maintain my solitary status.

 

[MochaRadha]

i dont know where my path will take me but i have a feeling id always be solitary

 

[Draka]

I like being solitary. Still though, it is nice at times to just have a friend or two or three to get together and share a ritual or a Sabbat meal/celebration. Do some divination together, read each others cards, raise some energy, have some fun. Some things you just can't do on your own and it's nice to have a friend over from time to time.

 

[Storm]

lol well there are crazy ideas about every religion i guess. are u in a coven or solitary

Yep. No idea or demographic is immune to the lunatic fringe.

 

[MochaRadha]

oh i agree with the friend thing

 

[Antiochian]

I'm late to the discussion, but I would guess that the vast majority of Wiccans are affirming of gays. I think those that aren't probably have some irrational fear or hang-up or haven't fully shed the Abrahamic baggage. In addition there are LGBT-oriented traditions of the Craft. I've also found the larger Druid groups to be very affirming. There are idiots in every belief (or unbelief) system. I've come across a few homophobic atheists, agnostics and Satanists through the years.

 

[The Neo Nerd]

I've known a whole load of wiccans and witches.

NONE of them rejected homosexuals, actually quite the opposite.

And whilst there were sexual rituals, they were either masturbatory or done between pre-existing couples.