Information in the Genome

[exchemist]

One variable connected to life that is not fully addressed by modern science, is water. Water is the main molecule of life and is a copartner with the the organics of life. Both are needed for life to appear and sustain.

Experiments were done, in the 1950's, where single cells were dehydrated and the water was replaced by a wide range of solvents, all of which were postulated to support life on other planets. The result was nothing worked in any test cells if water was replaced by any of these solvents.

The reason for this is the organics within earth based life are all tuned to the properties of water Even the DNA will not function, at all, if water is not there to push, pull, tuck and squeeze the DNA, at the nanoscale, so the DNA can properly align and become bioactive. DNA evolved in water with water being the source of natural selection at the nanoscale. This is also true of RNA and all the proteins. Evolution at the nanoscale, is due to the natural potential inherent within the water environment. The result is a copartnership between water and all the organics molecules of life, since all were chose by the water.

In terms of entropy lowering and order forming to allow life, the one of the most important nanoscale forces for this is connected to water and can be understood with the water-oil affect. If we mix water and oil and shake we will get an emulsion, but not quite a solution. The reason is the the movement towards the emulsion will create surface tension between the water and oil. This is adding free energy. If we allow this to settle, the surface tension will lower; stored energy lowers, and the water and oil will separate into the order implicit of two phases; layers. All the ordered structural elements of life; even the DNA double helix, are built on the water and oil principle, with water driving the process. Then same applies all the organelles in cells. Water can form order from chaos and does it all the time with organics.

All the other solvents postulated for life have extra hydrophobic nature, similar to the oil in the analogy. Alcohols, for example, can better mix with organics, compared to water; good cleaner, and will cause the organics of life to form random configurations that are not bioactive.

The random assumptions of the life sciences are bad premises and are still used because water is not taken as seriously as is it many contributions to life. This foundation is what makes evolution half baked. Evolution depends too much on chance whereas water is about order due to the simple drive of lowering surface tension the same way each time to get the repeatable order that is characteristic of life.

Interestingly, water is the second most abundant molecule in the universe, behind only hydrogen; H2. Is this coincidence or was the key to life; water, anticipated and created billions of years before life appeared. The energy difference between H2 and H2O is the range used by life. All the organic reactions in life have less energy that the full range, although some bacteria are able to user the full range and form hydrogen.

Biology is too organic centric and substitutes dice and cards, for the directing actions of water. The theory is thereby made half-baked. If you build a house on a flawed foundation, it will sag with time, which is why I do not accept the current house of evolution. It shows stress cracking due to the poor foundation.

And the cracked wellwisher record continues to revolve, as it has done for years now.........

But no mention of hydrogen bonds or liberals this time, I see.

 

[PruePhillip]

And the cracked wellwisher record continues to revolve, as it has done for years now.........

But no mention of hydrogen bonds or liberals this time, I see.

????
A deeper question is the perenial one of how the universe came to be. Did it create itself before
it existed? If so, how? And... why?
I hold that nothing in the universe could have created the universe --- because it didn't exist.
Once the universe is up and running it can create everything from quarks to blue whales -
but it's gotta start.

 

[exchemist]

????
A deeper question is the perenial one of how the universe came to be. Did it create itself before
it existed? If so, how? And... why?
I hold that nothing in the universe could have created the universe --- because it didn't exist.
Once the universe is up and running it can create everything from quarks to blue whales -
but it's gotta start.

A topic for a different thread, obviously.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

One variable connected to life that is not fully addressed by modern science, is water. Water is the main molecule of life and is a copartner with the the organics of life. Both are needed for life to appear and sustain.

Life as we know it, at least.

Having said that, life as we know it is literally made up from the most common elements in the universe, 1 for 1. The only exception being Helium, which is chemically inert anyway - only really good for sounding funny.

Experiments were done, in the 1950's, where single cells were dehydrated and the water was replaced by a wide range of solvents, all of which were postulated to support life on other planets. The result was nothing worked in any test cells if water was replaced by any of these solvents.

The reason for this is the organics within earth based life are all tuned to the properties of water Even the DNA will not function, at all, if water is not there to push, pull, tuck and squeeze the DNA, at the nanoscale, so the DNA can properly align and become bioactive. DNA evolved in water with water being the source of natural selection at the nanoscale. This is also true of RNA and all the proteins. Evolution at the nanoscale, is due to the natural potential inherent within the water environment. The result is a copartnership between water and all the organics molecules of life, since all were chose by the water.

In terms of entropy lowering and order forming to allow life, the one of the most important nanoscale forces for this is connected to water and can be understood with the water-oil affect. If we mix water and oil and shake we will get an emulsion, but not quite a solution. The reason is the the movement towards the emulsion will create surface tension between the water and oil. This is adding free energy. If we allow this to settle, the surface tension will lower; stored energy lowers, and the water and oil will separate into the order implicit of two phases; layers. All the ordered structural elements of life; even the DNA double helix, are built on the water and oil principle, with water driving the process. Then same applies all the organelles in cells. Water can form order from chaos and does it all the time with organics.

All the other solvents postulated for life have extra hydrophobic nature, similar to the oil in the analogy. Alcohols, for example, can better mix with organics, compared to water; good cleaner, and will cause the organics of life to form random configurations that are not bioactive.

The random assumptions of the life sciences; statistical, are bad premises and are still used because water is not taken as seriously as its many contributions to life. This half baked foundation is what makes evolution half baked. Evolution depends too much on chance, whereas water and organics are about order, due to the simple drive of lowering surface tension, the same way each time, to get the repeatable order that is characteristic of life and replication. The DNA is only a hard drive and will not work, unless water is helping to read and write the data.

Interestingly, water is the second most abundant molecule in the universe, behind only hydrogen; H2. Is this coincidence? The energy difference between H2 and H2O is the energy range used by life. All the organic reactions in life have less energy than the full range, although some rare bacteria are able to use the full range and form hydrogen.

Biology is too organic centric and substitutes dice and cards, for the directing actions of water. The theory of evolution is thereby made half-baked. If you build a house on a flawed foundation, it will sag with time, which is why I do not accept the current house of evolution. It shows stress cracking due to the poor foundation. Look in the subbasement of science and see for yourself.

The only thing flawed and half-baked here, is the pseudo-intellectual nonsense you wrote up here.

 

[exchemist]

Life as we know it, at least.

Having said that, life as we know it is literally made up from the most common elements in the universe, 1 for 1. The only exception being Helium, which is chemically inert anyway - only really good for sounding funny.




The only thing flawed and half-baked here, is the pseudo-intellectual nonsense you wrote up here.

As an aside, helium is the only element that cannot be made to freeze under ambient pressure. The attraction due to dispersion forces between its atoms is so feeble that the zero point energy of the atoms is too high for them to be bound by it.

 

[viole]

The genome is the entire set of instructions found within a cell. How is information within the genome reconciled with the second law of thermodynamics?

Entropy and Information

The one who thought up information theory, Claude Shannon, explains that information is the reduction of uncertainty. You have a book with no cover or title so you are uncertain what is in it. So you open it and start to read it, thus reducing uncertainty of what it is about and increase your knowledge of it.

The smallest level of information according to information theory is a bit. Imagine flipping a coin you have .5 chance of heads and .5 chance of tails. 1(head) = -1 log (.5) = 1 bit.

Thus encoding of a system can be accomplished using the lowest bit of information, say a computer, or the DNA. An intelligence is able to reduce uncertainty or create a machine to reduce it and thusly increase the information (knowledge).

On accepting evolution you need an explanation of how it reduces uncertainty and increases information. Give a reason syntax and semantics occurs in the sequence of nucleotides.

Encoding information in the DNA

How did evolution know how to describe lower entropy states and increase information?

Imagine a deck of cards. A-K suited is the lower entropy state. We can use less bits of information to explain the state of the cards in order saying Spades are first, Diamonds second, then Clubs, and finally Hearts. All the information required is here to explain the order of the cards. But shuffle them up. Now you need more information to explain the order of the cards. KD - 2H - 8C - 10S etc. More information is required to explain a deck of shuffled cards. So reducing the deck to its lowest entropy state reduces the amount of information required to explain the order they are in.

Now a deck has 52 cards, to factor it is astronomically high! There are 8.0658*10^67 combinations. If you take the supposed age of the universe (13.8 billion years) its not enough time to cover all the possibilities to occur. Check this out:

Now, out of the 8.0658*10^67 combinations of the 52 deck card, only 24 can be in the lowest entropy state, A-K, Spades, Diamonds, Hearts, Clubs.

An intelligent mind can, with ease, reduce the card to its lowest entropy state. That is because intelligent minds, which we have (or machines which we can create) can reduce the uncertainty and increase the information in the system.

A believer in evolution needs to explain how it reduces uncertainty and increases the information. Question, how does nature (unthinking and unintelligent) know information to describe lower entropy state? In other words, since it doesn't and can't know it is all random chance, how does it reduce a system like a deck of cards to its lowest 24 entropy states out of 8.0658*10^67 different combinations? Now remember it would take longer than the existence of our universe (13.8 billion) to just do this with a deck of cards by random chance.

So for those who profess faith in a natural interpretation of evolution, how do you explain this unintelligent force behind it being able to reduce entropy and increase information in a system?

We took the example of a deck of cards that has 52 cards. Now remember it would take longer than the age of the universe to even try and shuffle these into their lowest entropy state by chance. The human genome has 3 billion base pairs! The intelligent human mind cannot even begin to compute that. So let's take something easier. mycoplasma genitalium, it only has 580,070 base pairs and codes for 525 genes. To get this genome nature is dealing with 580,00 different combinations (not 52).

To get the genome of a mycoplasma genitalium we are not dealing with 52 different combinations but 580,000!

Remember what they taught us in school about the second law of thermodynamics (I think it was first year Chemistry for me), it states that it destroys any increase in information. That is, any system left alone tends to a state of decay, disorder, in other words: entropy.

Do you understand what this is saying? Unless you have an intelligence to decrease uncertainty and thus increase information in a system, information itself can never originate or increase. The second law of thermodynamics, entropy, makes it impossible. In an open system entropy can be reduced and you can get an ordered system like a diamond. But it does not allow for the sun shining on a puddle of mud to get a reduction of uncertainty and increase in knowledge to build a machine that can encode information.

Thus the genome. Look at the relation between nucleotide bases and amino acids. How does chance decide the sequence of GTC to code for valine instead of leucine?

Why does random chance need a genetic code? We can understand, with ease, why an intelligent designer would use a genetic code. It is needed to enconde information to get around the 2nd law of thermodynamics.

The 2nd law of thermodynamics destroys any chance of an increase of information in a system., you need designed machinery to get past the state of entropy. Thus, you need a mind that has knowledge of the information needed to describe the state of a system and encode it in the sequence of the storage medium.

Does reading that paragraph bring to your mind a computer programmer? In a computer program bits of information do not just coalesce to create the computer. You need a mind designing the program language, and assembling the code, reducing the uncertainty, and increasing the information for the program.

Thusly, you need transistors and gates. Start with the byte which is 8 bits and an electrical charge = 1 and no electrical charge = 0. A human mind can manipulate information needed to build the machine.

A diamond = lowest entropy state. a diamond watch = highly designed. A watch needs a coder to increase the knowledge in the system and decrease the lower entropy state, capisce?

So how did the genome come to be? Why would random chance create a code where nucleotide base codes for amino acids? Why would nature have a transcription and translation process? Why would blind chance form a polypeptide chain of a sequence of amino acids to encode on a gene? What makes it build molecular machinery to decode the information? How does it make it so there is a correlation between digital and analog data? Why is there syntax and semantics?

If you can just shine the lights ray on a puddle of mud and get life then why do amino acids reduce to proteins? Amino acids don't naturally form sequences of proteins.

There are roughly 500 amino acids identified in nature. 20 amino acids make up the proteins found in the human body.

20 Amino Acids that Make Up Proteins | Enhancing Life with Amino Acids | About the Ajinomoto Group | Ajinomoto Group Global Website - Eat Well, Live Well.

How did nature select 20 amino acids to end up in the human genome? When and how did nature decide on just 20?

Essential amino acids cannot be made by the body. They must come from food.
Amino acids: MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia

How did nature create a genetic code that included amino acids that a human would need before humans existed?

Please stop and ponder on that question. There are amino acids required for human life that aren't made by the human body, yet the human genome included these amino acids in its genetic code before we even came into existence.

How does blind chance know we needed these amino acids and encode them on the sequences of DNA? How does nature do this when the sun destroys DNA?

Sunlight damages DNA in the dark

They found that UVA radiation, the main type of UV light that comes from the Sun and from tanning beds, creates melanin by-products that damage DNA
Sunlight damages DNA in the dark - Nature

And how does the encoding system even have a meaning unless the meaning is assigned to it? We have a written language of English. Computers have programing languages. But the characters in the language have no meaning unless an intelligence gives it meaning.

So here is the question. Considering bits have to be designed to encode information (like on a computer, using a symbols given meaning by an intelligence) how does chance know how many bits describes a low entropy state? How can nature then build a machine to encode the information with symbols (in this case amino acids in the DNA) in the sequences of a storage medium in the face of the 2nd law of thermodynamics? And we aren't even beginning to deal with the impossible odds of reducing a 3 billion base pair to its lowest entropy state.

Information in the universe is constant. There is not such a thing as new information being created, nor lost. Even if you randomly shuffle a deck of card from a very orderly setup thirdly times, you will not lose any information.

so, what you call new information is actually information that comes from the environment. Or goes to the environment, in the case of the shuffling.

from a purely thermodynamics point of view, if you measure the entropy of sun light when it hits the earth, and the entropy when it leaves it, you win so much that you could pack the whole evolutionary history of the earth in a few weeks, before starting going against the second principle.

so, there is no thermodynamical problem whatsoever. If there were, you would have not been able yourself to develop into what you are today from a single simple cell.

Related question: the second principle is 19th century physics, and it is sacrosanct. No theory has much of a hope if it violates the second principle. Evolution is about as old, and extremely popular among scientists of basically every discipline. Including physicists. Now. Don’t you think that they would have noticed it in the last 150 years if there was such an apparent violation that even the clueless (e.g. the average creationist) would see? Or isn’t it maybe more rational to think that the creationist is missing something?

Ciao

- viole

 

[gnostic]

so, there is no thermodynamical problem whatsoever. If there were, you would have not been able yourself to develop into what you are today from a single simple cell.

Related question: the second principle is 19th century physics, and it is sacrosanct. No theory has much of a hope if it violates the second principle. Evolution is about as old, and extremely popular among scientists of basically every discipline. Including physicists. Now. Don’t you think that they would have noticed it in the last 150 years if there was such an apparent violation that even the clueless (e.g. the average creationist) would see? Or isn’t it maybe more rational to think that the creationist is missing something?

It tells me that most creationists don’t understand physics any more than they understand biology.

 

[gnostic]

Interestingly, water is the second most abundant molecule in the universe, behind only hydrogen; H2. Is this coincidence?

Actually the 2nd most abundant molecules is carbon monoxide (CO), according to NRAO (National Radio Astronomy Observatory).

Water (H2O) tied with hydroxyl radical (OH) in 3rd place.

And from from what I understand the margin between CO and both H2O & OH, it is by very large factors.

 

[Heyo]

It tells me that most creationists don’t understand physics any more than they understand biology.

Or any other science. YEC don't have a problem with biology, they have a problem with science (or sometimes the problem is even deeper and they have a problem with logic). That's why you can't convince them by teaching them about biology, they don't understand why they are wrong. It's like discussing calculus with someone who hasn't mastered fractions.

 

[viole]

It tells me that most creationists don’t understand physics any more than they understand biology.

Yes, and it is puzzling they focus so much on evolution, when the first page of their Holy Book is destroyed by basically all the rest of science.

Ciao

- viole

 

[wellwisher]

The term entropy was first coined during the development of steam engines. When the developers were doing experiments they noticed that there was always "lost energy", that could not be accounted for by taking into account the known inputs and outputs. This lost energy was termed entropy. Entropy is a measurable quantity, inferred by this lost energy, even if it is not easily explained. It is real and measurable, not just a theory like the concept of dark energy. You can look up the measured entropy values for a wide range of materials in the Chemical Handbook; CRC. For example, water at 25C and 1 Atm of pressure has an entropy value of 188.8 Joules/(mole K).

It was later discovered that entropy was a state variable meaning for any given state of matter, the entropy value was always constant. The entropy of water at 25C and 1 atm of pressure will be measured the same, by all labs. This state value of entropy is like an informational stamp that define this specific state of matter. This state value is permanent, and does not change with the second law.

This measurable lost energy, connected to entropy, is why we cannot have perpetual motion. As entropy increases over time; 2nd law, this lost energy will compound over time, making all perpetual motion impossible.

The second law states that the entropy of the universe has to increase. What this implies, which is not always grasped, even by the experts, is that our universe is bleeding energy into ever increasing entropy. This energy cannot be retrieved in any net or total way, since the universal entropy has to increase. We can retrieve the lost energy in entropy, in part, such as by freezing liquid water, but we cannot retrieve the entropy of the universe in any total way. The universe is aging, as it loses irretrievable energy, into even increasing entropy; 2nd law.

Energy conservation still applies to this lost energy, due ever increasing entropy. This energy is conserved, but not in a way that is fully retrievable by the material universe. We cannot retrieve the entropy within all water of the universe, at 25C and 1 atmosphere, and thereby makes this state of matter, disappear from the universe. The state of water contains some of this lost energy, in a type of informational state, that is perpetual, like the laws of physics. Its irretrievable nature makes it perpetual.

What is interesting is life constantly generates a lot of entropy. The living state is driven, in part, by the 2nd law; metabolism, synthesis and decomposition Neurons generate a lot of entropy, since neurons use over 90% of their metabolic energy pumping and exchanging cations; connection to memory. The net affect is life constantly adds to the increasing pool of energy, that is lost by the universe. This lost energy defines states. In theory, all that we do and think, that is chemically connected to the second law and an entropy increase is conserved; but is more or less off limits to the material universe; eternal memory of the dynamic state called us. It is in a different realm; irretrievable, that is net off limits to the material universe.

The universe cannot be cyclic or go on forever, as supposed by Physics, since Physics does not take into account the bleeding of energy, which precludes both of these versions of perpetual motion.

Side note 1: If we go back to a mole of water at 25C and 1 atm of pressure, the interacting water, at the molecular scale, is currently modeled using probability and wave functions for all the 6.02214076 × 1023 molecules. This is a very complex state of interaction.

The paradox that is created by the state nature of entropy, is all this apparent randomness, connected to so many units ,always adds up to a constant entropy value. A constant information state controls the apparent randomness of all these parts, so that at any given time, the sum of all the dice and cards always adds to a constant amount of entropy.

Life, being a state variable is not random at nay level, as assumed by biology. Rather there is a constant summation of order within its entropic states of matter, such that all the apparent the random always adds to a constant. Biology violates the 2nd law and needs an upgrade away from being too dependent on random models. They unknowingly assume that random rules life, since they lack understanding of constant nature of the entropic states of matter. This makes their version of evolution, half baked, at best. If we define a cell as a state of constant entropy, changes can occur on the DNA, but these needs to be balanced elsewhere, so constant state entropy is maintained or increases to the next quantum state.

Side note 2: Those who have been weaned on current biology, will take offense, so it may be useful to explain how you were fooled into blindly accepting the taught nonsense. There are two basic forms of science; pure and applied. Pure science defines nature as it is. Applied science uses this pure science knowledge as a platform to extend nature into manmade applications. We can learn the pure science of metals and apply this to making alloys and building bridges. The former is based on natures as is and the latter based on manmade extrapolations.

Another extreme contrasting example were the alchemists of the middle ages. They did not understand modern chemistry as we know it, but they nevertheless developed many of the tools still used today, such as distillation and extraction devices. Applied science, empiricism, and ingenuity can often overcome a poor pure science foundation. The Romans did not understand modern solid state chemistry of minerals but could built things; applied, that could last thousand of years.

The problem that often arises, is one can often do good applied science, even if the pure science is less that pure or the pure science is tainted. The classic example, is Newtonian gravity can be used to determine the path of projectiles in war. This is not pure science since Newtonian was superseded by Einstein's theory. But this is very accurate, even though the science is not pure.

Impure science, such as used by modern biology; too much casino math, can still be used as a platform for good applied science, allowing one to still get very good results. But the results are never perfect; side affects of drugs, since the impure science is half baked. For example, in the COVID pandemic, science was easily manipulated by politicians, since science could not define who was vulnerable and who was not going to be harmed. It turned out tens of millions could have avoided the the boot of the politicians, if the applied science was not still using second string impure science. The future can be brighter for applied science and medicine, but the foundation of science needs purification; integral assumptions based on entropic states.

 

[exchemist]

The term entropy was first coined during the development of steam engines. When the developers were doing experiments they noticed that there was always "lost energy", that could not be accounted for by taking into account the known inputs and outputs. This lost energy was termed entropy. Entropy is a measurable quantity, inferred by this lost energy, even if it is not easily explained. It is real and measurable, not just a theory like the concept of dark energy. You can look up the measured entropy values for a wide range of materials in the Chemical Handbook; CRC. For example, water at 25C and 1 Atm of pressure has an entropy value of 188.8 Joules/(mole K).

It was later discovered that entropy was a state variable meaning for any given state of matter, the entropy value was always constant. The entropy of water at 25C and 1 atm of pressure will be measured the same, by all labs. This state value of entropy is like an informational stamp that define this specific state of matter. This state value is permanent, and does not change with the second law.

This measurable lost energy, connected to entropy, is why we cannot have perpetual motion. As entropy increases over time; 2nd law, this lost energy will compound over time, making all perpetual motion impossible.

The second law states that the entropy of the universe has to increase. What this implies, which is not always grasped, even by the experts, is that our universe is bleeding energy into ever increasing entropy. This energy cannot be retrieved in any net or total way, since the universal entropy has to increase. We can retrieve the lost energy in entropy, in part, such as by freezing liquid water, but we cannot retrieve the entropy of the universe in any total way. The universe is aging, as it loses irretrievable energy, into even increasing entropy; 2nd law.

Energy conservation still applies to this lost energy, due ever increasing entropy. This energy is conserved, but not in a way that is fully retrievable by the material universe. We cannot retrieve the entropy within all water of the universe, at 25C and 1 atmosphere, and thereby makes this state of matter, disappear from the universe. The state of water contains some of this lost energy, in a type of informational state, that is perpetual, like the laws of physics. Its irretrievable nature makes it perpetual.

What is interesting is life constantly generates a lot of entropy. The living state is driven, in part, by the 2nd law; metabolism, synthesis and decomposition Neurons generate a lot of entropy, since neurons use over 90% of their metabolic energy pumping and exchanging cations; connection to memory. The net affect is life constantly adds to the increasing pool of energy, that is lost by the universe. This lost energy defines states. In theory, all that we do and think, that is chemically connected to the second law and an entropy increase is conserved; but is more or less off limits to the material universe; eternal memory of the dynamic state called us. It is in a different realm; irretrievable, that is net off limits to the material universe.

The universe cannot be cyclic or go on forever, as supposed by Physics, since Physics does not take into account the bleeding of energy, which precludes both of these versions of perpetual motion.

Side note 1: If we go back to a mole of water at 25C and 1 atm of pressure, the interacting water, at the molecular scale, is currently modeled using probability and wave functions for all the 6.02214076 × 1023 molecules. This is a very complex state of interaction.

The paradox that is created by the state nature of entropy, is all this apparent randomness, connected to so many units ,always adds up to a constant entropy value. A constant information state controls the apparent randomness of all these parts, so that at any given time, the sum of all the dice and cards always adds to a constant amount of entropy.

Life, being a state variable is not random at nay level, as assumed by biology. Rather there is a constant summation of order within its entropic states of matter, such that all the apparent the random always adds to a constant. Biology violates the 2nd law and needs an upgrade away from being too dependent on random models. They unknowingly assume that random rules life, since they lack understanding of constant nature of the entropic states of matter. This makes their version of evolution, half baked, at best. If we define a cell as a state of constant entropy, changes can occur on the DNA, but these needs to be balanced elsewhere, so constant state entropy is maintained or increases to the next quantum state.

Side note 2: Those who have been weaned on current biology, will take offense, so it may be useful to explain how you were fooled into blindly accepting the taught nonsense. There are two basic forms of science; pure and applied. Pure science defines nature as it is. Applied science uses this pure science knowledge as a platform to extend nature into manmade applications. We can learn the pure science of metals and apply this to making alloys and building bridges. The former is based on natures as is and the latter based on manmade extrapolations.

Another extreme contrasting example were the alchemists of the middle ages. They did not understand modern chemistry as we know it, but they nevertheless developed many of the tools still used today, such as distillation and extraction devices. Applied science, empiricism, and ingenuity can often overcome a poor pure science foundation. The Romans did not understand modern solid state chemistry of minerals but could built things; applied, that could last thousand of years.

The problem that often arises, is one can often do good applied science, even if the pure science is less that pure or the pure science is tainted. The classic example, is Newtonian gravity can be used to determine the path of projectiles in war. This is not pure science since Newtonian was superseded by Einstein's theory. But this is very accurate, even though the science is not pure.

Impure science, such as used by modern biology; too much casino math, can still be used as a platform for good applied science, allowing one to still get very good results. But the results are never perfect; side affects of drugs, since the impure science is half baked. For example, in the COVID pandemic, science was easily manipulated by politicians, since science could not define who was vulnerable and who was not going to be harmed. It turned out tens of millions could have avoided the the boot of the politicians, if the applied science was not still using second string impure science. The future can be brighter for applied science and medicine, but the foundation of science needs purification; integral assumptions based on entropic states.

Readers, almost everything here after the first 6 paragraphs is rubbish.

 

[tas8831]

The genome is the entire set of instructions found within a cell. How is information within the genome reconciled with the second law of thermodynamics?

Please DEFINE information as it pertains to genetics and genomes.

I will snip your obviously paraphrased-without-attribution creationist diatribe.

Entropy and Information

The one who thought up information theory, Claude Shannon, explains that information is the reduction of uncertainty.

Back when creationists first tried to use Information Theory (unsuccessfully) to attack evolution (rather than support creationism), I did some reading on the subject. I have Shannon's original paper around here somewhere.
I see you've not read it, nor has the source of this YEC nonsense.
You see, Shannon was working on the transmission and storage of electronic communication 'information.'
In his theory (why are you Ok with Information Theory, but not the ToE?), he was explaining how 'information' gets lost in transmission from source/sender to receiver.

As you are the latest 'expert' on how information theory has direct implications (via tortured analogy) to biology, please tell us all, in GENETICS, what is the "sender" and what is the "receiver"? I have asked creationists this for over a decade and they can never answer.

Considering bits have to be designed to encode information (like on a computer, using a symbols given meaning by an intelligence) how does chance know how many bits describes a low entropy state?.

So cool.

From tortured, inapplicable and strained analogy to a demand to know how the "bits" in a molecule were written to it, because after all, since DNA is just like computer code, and humans have to write the bits, .... blah blah blah...

You'd be better off posting bare links and claiming victory.,

 

[tas8831]

Side note 1: If we go back to a mole of water at 25C and 1 atm of pressure, the interacting water, at the molecular scale, is currently modeled using probability and wave functions for all the 6.02214076 × 1023 molecules.

HINT: When copy-pasting from an unnamed source, exponential notation does not translate.

 

[tas8831]

I thought your question was rhetorical. The reason is because an intelligence assigns the base pairs their order.

No intelligence is required to allow 2 nucleotides to link together.

Never had a biology or chemistry class, have you?

 

[tas8831]

The cards were used as an illustration of reducing entropy in an open system, in this case the genome. An intelligence assigns the order in the cards, just as it can logically be inferred that an intelligence assigns the order of the nucleobases A T C or G in the base pair on the double helix of a DNA strand.

Empty assertion are cool.

 

[tas8831]

That is exactly the point. The odds of it coming together by mere chance make it so that it is impossible.

The odds of 2 nucleotides randomly combining is zero?

Please demonstrate with more that paraphrased rhetoric.

Or did you never take stats, either?

An event that has a probability of 10^50 is considered an impossibility.
We are dealing with chances much much much greater than these. At such a staggering level more that it would take blind faith to believe it happened by chance.

What happened?

Are you really so naïve as to think that anyone has ever claimed that a fully functioning genome arose all at once by chance?

 

[tas8831]

Readers, almost everything here after the first 6 paragraphs is rubbish.

He's gotten better at covering up his obvious plagiarism, but he missed the lost exponential notation. Looks like he adds commas and changes a few words and phrases here and there to avoid detection, but it is pretty obviously copied-modified-pasted.

 

[tas8831]

The magic wand of time solution, lol!

Time is an accepted reality.

The only magic wand solution I ever see on forums like this is the invocation of God magic.

 

[tas8831]

If something is impossible adding time doesn't change that.

Creationists have presented nothing that is "impossible", no matter how many numbers they copy-paste and hide behind.