Infant Baptism

[sojourner]

I am addressing popular Christian doctrine.
The LDS do not hold to the doctrine of original sin.
The LDS have their own dogma and doctrine that refutes the concept as I`ve said now three times in this thread.

I have limited my contribution to this debate within the limits of Biblical scripture as it is what shapes the beliefs of the vast majority of Christians.

I doubt you'll find that original sin is "popular" doctrine. I don't believe in original sin. If you wish to address this issue, you're going to have to take into account the scope of Xian doctrine on the matter.

 

[Evandr2]

Yes I do.

I don`t see how any rational moral person can read the Bible and come away with any other impression of the Biblical deity.
It befuddles me.

You know, I cannot completely blame you for your views on the Bible. The Bible was not written for our benefit, it was written for the benefit of an ancient civilization. It was worded for their Gospel understanding.

Combine that with the reality that it has not come to us unblemished by the foolish ignorance and/or wickedness of translators and your confusion comes as no real surprise.

Keep in mind that the Gospel does not change nor will it ever but the method of teaching it must be tailored to the understanding of the people.

My surprise come in the fact that you take what you perceive in a text you admit confuses you to a degree and then declare your opinion about God according to it. That is a very curious attitude.

Every breath that you take is a gift from a loving Heavenly Father. His purpose for existence is that we may be happy and gain all that He has. It is a sad thing that our own narrow view of what is essential for eternal happiness along side of our own weak and juvenile interpretations of the Bible causes us to judge God. There is no opinion more presumptuous, foolish, and unrighteous that a man can have than to think himself worthy to judge God.

You traverse a dangerously perilous path when you form your belief structure around your own wisdom and supposing or the teachings of someone or some organization that picks and choose what points of scripture that they will and will not accept without a reliable and Heaven sent foundation for belief.

I realize that discernment can be difficult but not with the guidance of the Spirit and a living prophet. With the guidance of the Holy Ghost you can know all things needed for your own exaltation. By listening to a living prophet you can be sure that your house of faith is built upon a foundation of rock instead of sand.

You need to look for current revelation. I tell you truth - The Doctrine and Covenants is current revelation given specifically for us and the Book of Mormon is revelation unblemished by man. The Holy Ghost can make you absolutely sure of that as it has done for me and, by their own testimonies, millions of others. All you need to do is plant all the seeds of potential wisdom into your own heart and then cling to that growth that produces the sweetest fruit.

I understand with perfect clarity that the Book of Mormon is the original translation of records produced by ancient prophets who were shown our time by the power of God and thusly wrote according to our needs. It is the most correct book on the face of the earth. It speaks out of the dust with a familiar voice. You can deny it to yourself, you can argue against it, but you cannot change the facts.

God is not a monster. He loves us all with perfect love and fidelity. After all, we are His sons and daughters. If the gulf between ourselves and God is widening it is because we are drawing away from Him.

Vandr

 

[linwood]

What's so hard to understand about that statement? Jesus loves the little children. He will accept them, even though his disciples will not. In fact, he loves them so much, that he uses their innocence as an example for the rest of us to follow. jesus says that the kingdom belongs to people just like this -- the meek, the innocent, the pure, the lowly, the humble. This is an example teaching -- not a law book.

There is nothing difficult to understand about it, it simply flies in the face of the doctrine of original sin.

The contradiction does not surprise me considering the Bible is inherently contradictory due to the manner of it`s assemblage.

I doubt you'll find that original sin is "popular" doctrine.

You must be kidding me.

I don't believe in original sin. If you wish to address this issue, you're going to have to take into account the scope of Xian doctrine on the matter.

No I don`t, I have stated the concepts I wish to discuss/debate.
If your beliefs do not fall within these boundries then we have nothing to debate.
This believe it or not makes me happy.

If I were to take into account the entire scope of varied Christian views on original sin and baptism I could be posting to this thread for the remainder of my life.
:sarcastic

I am addressing the view of the majority of Christians because to my mind these are the people who cannot reconcile their contradictory doctrine concerning these concepts.

My assumption that you did hold to the doctrine of original sin is mistaken and I do apologise for it.
My false assumption is the reason for our seeming inability to come to an agreement on this subject.

Now that I have been corrected I see that we do not really disagree to any meaningful extent in our interpretations of this particular subject.
Thank you for the enlightenment.

 

[linwood]

You know, I cannot completely blame you for your views on the Bible. The Bible was not written for our benefit, it was written for the benefit of an ancient civilization. It was worded for their Gospel understanding.

Evandr,

Despite our obvious differences and beliefs in spirituality we do not seem so far apart in how we interpret the intent of scripture.

While I disagree with much of your last post to me I also agree with a great deal of it.
This is not the thread for me to be debating much of what you`ve said.

I look forward to more of these discussions with you as I`m sure we`ll be having them.


Now, can I please get a response from a Christian that does follow the doctrine of original sin?
:biglaugh:

 

[FFH]

Joseph Smith Inspired version
Matthew 18: 11

For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost and to call sinners to repentance; but these little ones have no need of repentance, and I will save them

King James version
Matthew 18: 11

For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.



Joseph Smith Inspired version
Matthew 19: 13

Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them saying, There is no need, for Jesus hath said, Such shall be saved.

But Jesus said, suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not, for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

King James version
Matthew 19: 13

Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them.

But Jesus said, suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.