incorperating Yamas and Niyamas into our Sadhana , can we realy call our selves Hindu if we dont ?

[Aupmanyav]

Niyama normally translates to "rules" (so shivji is right) but that is a common mistranslated (the correct sanskrit word for rules is vidhi). Niyama and yama used in the context of Yoga, have very specific meanings (they are part of a process as Ratikala ji stated.).

Hey Nitai (Would you mind it if we shorten your nick to Nitai? We know it is really Nitai Dasa. But that way we will be taking the name of your deity (nama-japa) and earn some merit in bargain. It is common in India to call children as Rama, Krishna, Mohan, etc. though their names may be different. We call our son as Monu (an derivation from Mohan) because he was very good-looking. Kindly enlighten us of your view). Vidhi translates into method.

Niyama is: precept, restriction, rule, law, limitation, convention, preventing, restraining, determination, necessity or law personified as a son of Dharma and Dhriti.

Dharma is (first page only): Yama, manner, nature, relating to justice or virtue, property, religious merit, law or doctrine, steadfast decree, observance, ordinance, religion, ethical precepts, attribute, propriety of conduct, law or justice personified, bow, that which is established or firm, duty.

Dhriti, a daughter of Daksha Prajapati, is: self-command, courage, keeping, firm bearing, seizing, joy, firmness, satisfaction, holding, resolution or satisfaction personified, constancy, content, will, resolution, steadiness, offering or sacrifice, support.

For those who are not aware, http://spokensanskrit.de/ is an excellent site. It has various Sanskrit-English, English-Sanskrit dictionaries all at one place - Monier-Williams and Apte. Absolutely wonderful.

 

[Aupmanyav]

But the latter is a strong atheist, or a gnostic atheist.
So one could just expand that to all non-Veda-accepting or -centred philosophies.

Never used the second appellation but see
<<< my label is 'strong atheist', rejecting even the possibility of existence of God (since there is only one entity in the universe, Aup's Advaita).
I would not agree to your second proposition. I very humbly accept Vedas.
If it is not from Shruti, how could I say 'Ayamatma Brahman' (This self is Brahman) or 'Tat twam asi' (That is what you are).
I am a strong religious atheist, sort of a composite being.

 

[Kirran]

AFAIK, the common labels for these categories are agnost (I do not know) and atheist

As commonly used, an agnostic is a variety of atheist - gnosticism/agnosticism and theism/atheism are separate axes.

 

[shivsomashekhar]

As commonly used, an agnostic is a variety of atheist - gnosticism/agnosticism and theism/atheism are separate axes.

I agree. Agnost is practically the same as atheist, which is why I was confused by your earlier distinction.

 

[Kirran]

I agree. Agnost is practically the same as atheist, which is why I was confused by your earlier distinction.

Well the distinction was between two categories of atheist - the strong atheist and the weak/agnostic atheist. Antitheist is something else again.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Agnosticism is like 'I reserve my comment'. Fence sitting, neither yes nor no. I do not know if that option is there in Hinduism. With us, it is either a straight yes for most people (form, style, name does not matter) or a straight no for a few.

 

[ratikala]

Namaskaram Aupmanyav ji

Argh, Wikipedia mentioned only five each in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga_Sutras_of_Patanjali#Yamas. You have increased it to ten each, making it more difficult for us. However, the premise is uncontestable. We cannot be real Hindus unless we try to follow Yamas and Niyamas.

Jai Jai , ......you mean Patanjali tried to make it easier for you ....

Sorry I missed your earlier post , ..but having found it now I am happy that you have said what I wanted to hear , ... ''However, the premise is uncontestable. We cannot be real Hindus unless we try to follow Yamas and Niyamas''
yes all we need do is try , ...not just try to practice , ..try to understand why we should practice , ....

yet again the thread gets derailed , into arguments , ...all be they mild , what is ..Atheism ,..Theism , ..Astika , ...Nastika , .....

what I do not understand is that here on this forum , so much importance is put on what another beleives , ..there is too much contesting anothers beleifs , ...too much labeling and judging , ...

Where in the Yamas and Niyamas does it say be judgemental of others ? ...where does it say keep whachfull eye on the behavior and beleif of others , ...No , .no , ...it says keep whachfull eye on oneself !!

Ok Patanjali simplified Yamas and Niyamas , ...prehaps we need to ask why ?

why did Patanjali remove some points ?

The Ten Yamas ; ... Restraints , ...

1. Ahimsa ; ...nonviolence
2. Satya ; ......truthfulness
3. Asteya ; ....non stealing
4. Brahmacharya ; ...chastity , or restraint
5. Ksama ; ....forgiveness
6. Dhrti ; ....... fortitude
   
7. Daya ; .......Compassion
   
8. Arjava ; ......Sincerity , absence of Hypocracy
   
9. Mitahara ; ..moderation in diet
   
10. Sauca ; .....physical and mental purity (cleanliness)

@Kirran ji kindly posted patanjalis yamas and Niyamas

Ahimsa - non-violence, in thought, word and deed.
Satya - truthfulness, honesty. With yourself, with others. Integrity.
Asteya - non-stealing, non-coveting. Extends to not taking more than you need, not taking resources selfishly. Sustain yourself healthily and simply
Brahmacharya - includes celibacy (thought, word and deed) but includes also continence and appropriate use of your energy anyway - don't become scattered by always multitasking etc.
Aparigraha - non-jealousy, non-covetousness.

The Ten Niyamas ; ...Observances , ...

1. Tapas ; .....austerity
2. Santosa ; ..contentment , joyfull acceptance
   
3. Astika ; .....faith in God (or divine higer self)
   
4. Dana ; ......giving in charity or sharing with others
5. Isvarapujana ;....worship of the Ishvara ... (the supreme as person or higer self)
   
6. Siddhanta Vakya Sravana ; ...Hearing discourses or recitations of the ancient scriptures
7. Hri ; ........ cultivating modesty and humility , ...developing remorse for one's previous actions
   
8. Mati ; .......developing understanding , ....reconcileing or resolving conflicting ideas
9. Japa ; ...... recitation of mantra
   
10. Huta ; .......performance of rituals , (Yajna)

Shaucha - cleanliness - aiming to keep yourself clean in body - not necessarily in terms of dirt etc, but in terms of health, flow of energy (many yogi sadhus are very dirty, by appearances ) and then also in your subtle body. Shaucha is said to lead to disdain for the body!
Santosha - satisfaction, being content with what you're provided.
Tapas - discipline, related to the word for burning or fire - tapas is burning austerity borne from gradually leaving aside all desire but for the divine. Earlier on, it can start with saying 'I will meditate for 10 minutes a day '
Svadhyaya - study of the scriptures, and of the self. So both introspection and contemplation upon teachings from the Vedas, the BG, the Yoga Sutras, the Ashtavakra Gita, writings and sayings of sages such as Shankara and Ramana, as you like.
Ishvarapranidhana - surrender of the self to the Lord.

what Kirran Ji says here is very nice , ...
''As you explore these, they very much dovetail together - e.g. surrendering to the Lord (Ishvarapranidhana) is very purifying (Shaucha) and includes being content with what you're given (Santosha) ''

but if you compare, ...patanjali's with original Ten , it is very interesting to examine what he has left out , to examine also what he has concentrated upon , ....and how as Kirran says they dovetail together , ...

@shivsomashekhar ji Could we not discuss these points ? ...you and I seem allways at loggerheads as regards to veiw , ...we might discuss Mati ; .......developing understanding , ....reconcileing or resolving conflicting ideas , ...of course yes you are Advaitin and I Vaisnava , but there is also comonality that can be found , ..is this not worth more than the differences ?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Ratiben, our discussions are civil and members value each other - which is gratifying. If someone would give a list of things where we fault among the T20 (10 + 10 = 20. 20 things), that might be interesting to know. Members which are the more difficult of the Yamas and Niyamas? Let us concentrate on them.

T 20 - A form of the game of cricket where each side will bowl 20 overs each of 6 balls and the opposite team will try to garner the maximum possible runs.
Today is the final of the World T20 competition when England face West Indies at Eden Garden cricket stadium in Kolkata, the second larges in the world with a capacity of 90,000 spectators. India were outplayed by West Indies in the semi-final, so were Newzealand by England in the other semi-final.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/icc-world-twenty20-2016/content/story/994257.html

 

[ratikala]

Namaskaram Aupmanyav ji

Ratiben, our discussions are civil and members value each other - which is gratifying. If someone would give a list of things where we fault among the T20 (10 + 10 = 20. 20 things), that might be interesting to know. Members which are the more difficult of the Yamas and Niyamas? Let us concentrate on them.

prehaps it is not fault that we should be finding in oneanother , But if I am to find fault it is a general fault in the mentality of society on the whole , ...then we without thinking follow that example instead of the Example of Lord Rama , or Arjuna ,
....

for example , ...

Hri ; ........ cultivating modesty and humility , ...developing remorse for one's previous actions , ...
Mati ; .......developing understanding , ....reconcileing or resolving conflicting ideas , ...

here in discussion each person is perfectly entitled to his own veiw , if we canot hold our own veiw and allow others to hold theirs it is not discussion , ..if we are truely trying to cultivate modesty or humility then can we not approach eachother in a more humble way ? ...can we not try to understand and accept anothers veiw ? can we not accept that each has his her level of understanding , and can we not turn that thinking in on itself to examine our own understanding and addmit that it also may be limited in any number of ways , ......

the question realy is , ...are we here to learn and to share appreciation of the depth of our traditions , or are we here to pick arguments and parade our own incomplete understanding ??? ....If any one of us think that our understanding and Knowledge is so perfect that we can judge others then we certainly lack Humility and could do with practicing Hri and Mati , ....

Iam still waiting for a reply to my question from @shivsomashekhar ji , ...''Could we not discuss these points ? ...you and I seem allways at loggerheads as regards to veiw , ...we might discuss Mati ; .......developing understanding , ....reconcileing or resolving conflicting ideas , ...of course yes you are Advaitin and I Vaisnava , but there is also comonality that can be found , ..is this not worth more than the differences ?''


what I mean is , .....Might we discuss the benifits of Mati ? , ....
however this question is not limited to Shivsomashekhar , it is open to all , .....as both principles Hri and Mati have great bearing on how we approach and conduct our dealings with orhers , ....

 

[Shantanu]

Namaskaram Aupmanyav ji



prehaps it is not fault that we should be finding in oneanother , But if I am to find fault it is a general fault in the mentality of society on the whole , ...then we without thinking follow that example instead of the Example of Lord Rama , or Arjuna ,
....

for example , ...

Hri ; ........ cultivating modesty and humility , ...developing remorse for one's previous actions , ...
Mati ; .......developing understanding , ....reconcileing or resolving conflicting ideas , ...

here in discussion each person is perfectly entitled to his own veiw , if we canot hold our own veiw and allow others to hold theirs it is not discussion , ..if we are truely trying to cultivate modesty or humility then can we not approach eachother in a more humble way ? ...can we not try to understand and accept anothers veiw ? can we not accept that each has his her level of understanding , and can we not turn that thinking in on itself to examine our own understanding and addmit that it also may be limited in any number of ways , ......

the question realy is , ...are we here to learn and to share appreciation of the depth of our traditions , or are we here to pick arguments and parade our own incomplete understanding ??? ....If any one of us think that our understanding and Knowledge is so perfect that we can judge others then we certainly lack Humility and could do with practicing Hri and Mati , ....

Iam still waiting for a reply to my question from @shivsomashekhar ji , ...''Could we not discuss these points ? ...you and I seem allways at loggerheads as regards to veiw , ...we might discuss Mati ; .......developing understanding , ....reconcileing or resolving conflicting ideas , ...of course yes you are Advaitin and I Vaisnava , but there is also comonality that can be found , ..is this not worth more than the differences ?''


what I mean is , .....Might we discuss the benifits of Mati ? , ....
however this question is not limited to Shivsomashekhar , it is open to all , .....as both principles Hri and Mati have great bearing on how we approach and conduct our dealings with orhers , ....

Of course we must develop our Mati (understanding) of every aspect of the universe and see how it all links together.

Advaitins and Vaishnavas are easily seen and appreciated. Let me explain:

It seems to me that God only wishes those intensely devoted to principles of truth and justice by practicing the 10 Yamas and Niyamas to know about Him in intricate detail. People who have a reluctance to submit to God do not benefit from knowledge of Him, they are restricted to knowing the bland universe as Brahman and since they do not receive any guidance from God into their minds, they try and interpret all data as though nothing has been revealed to humans by God Himself. These are what we call pure advaitins. They construct their own logic by following the Mahavakyas. They can of course be very good people in their own right but are nowwhere near perfect human beings. If you follow the 10 Yamas and Niyamas to the best of your ability you are trying to be the perfect human being: purushottama. Astika and Ishwarpujana are given to mean that it is necessary to surrender to God as overall the best way to derive information to live ones life as fruitfully as possible. Doing this leads a person to great things in terms of knowledge and understanding.

Similarly, those we describe as Vaishnavas are restricted by their compulsion to follow scriptures. The truths that I mentioned above are more important than anything given in the Bhagavad Gita if one knows how to interpret them. Interpretation is done from personal experience of reality. This makes a person a religious Hindu or traditional Hindu. They do not give any names to God but Ishwar. Perhaps we should develop a new term for such Hindus for they are not Vaishnavas because Vaishnavas are too embroiled in following scriptures instead of realising the essence of Hinduism from these Yamas and Niyamas. What name would you give Hindus who live by these principles and do not follow the Gita and other scriptures? We cannot call them Patanjali-Hindus because the Yoga Sutra of Patanjali limits the requirements to 5 Yamas and Niyamas. So we must say 'essential religious Hindus'. What do you think?

I do not see why atheist and other secular and religious Hindus will find this analysis annoying to them. Are they really so insecure in their knowledge? If they do, this cannot be helped, for truth must be established, whether some Hindus like it or not.

 

[ratikala]

Namaskaram Shantanu ji

Of course we must develop our Mati (understanding) of every aspect of the universe and see how it all links together.

yes and also our relationship with it and our duty towards it , ....

Advaitins and Vaishnavas are easily seen and appreciated. Let me explain:

It seems to me that God only wishes those intensely devoted to principles of truth and justice by practicing the 10 Yamas and Niyamas to know about Him in intricate detail. People who have a reluctance to submit to God do not benefit from knowledge of Him, they are restricted to knowing the bland universe as Brahman and since they do not receive any guidance from God into their minds, they try and interpret all data as though nothing has been revealed to humans by God Himself. These are what we call pure advaitins. They construct their own logic by following the Mahavakyas. They can of course be very good people in their own right but are nowwhere near perfect human beings. If you follow the 10 Yamas and Niyamas to the best of your ability you are trying to be the perfect human being: purushottama. Astika and Ishwarpujana are given to mean that it is necessary to surrender to God as overall the best way to derive information to live ones life as fruitfully as possible. Doing this leads a person to great things in terms of knowledge and understanding.

Jai Jai certainly yes , ...we are to surrender to Ishwara , ...what you say is very nice , ..''the best way to derive information to live ones life as fruitfully as possible.'' ....this is very important

Similarly, those we describe as Vaishnavas are restricted by their compulsion to follow scriptures. The truths that I mentioned above are more important than anything given in the Bhagavad Gita if one knows how to interpret them. Interpretation is done from personal experience of reality. This makes a person a religious Hindu or traditional Hindu. They do not give any names to God but Ishwar. Perhaps we should develop a new term for such Hindus for they are not Vaishnavas because Vaishnavas are too embroiled in following scriptures instead of realising the essence of Hinduism from these Yamas and Niyamas. What name would you give Hindus who live by these principles and do not follow the Gita and other scriptures? We cannot call them Patanjali-Hindus because the Yoga Sutra of Patanjali limits the requirements to 5 Yamas and Niyamas. So we must say 'essential religious Hindus'. What do you think?

I am Vaisnava , but I do not think that I should follow scripture without thinking about its meaning , I also belive that we should learn to think for ourselves , ..to know what would please Sri Krsna and to act accordingly , personaly I find many things in the Gita that we should not take only in a littereal sence , but that should be taken as an example of how we too should act in any given situation , and yes I do think that Krsna speaks to us personaly and guides us through our own personal experiences , ....I am also Vaisnava but realise the importance of the Yamas and Niyamas , but I think as Vaisnava we learn them in a differnt way , ..but still we conform to the ful 10 Yamas , 10 Niyamas , ...but yes I think Religious Hindu is an acurate description also followers of Sanatana Dharma , ....as to me 10 Yamas 10 Niyamas is eternal relogious principles , eternal religious principles is Sanatana Dharma , ...

I do not see why atheist and other secular and religious Hindus will find this analysis annoying to them. Are they really so insecure in their knowledge? If they do, this cannot be helped, for truth must be established, whether some Hindus like it or not.

this is very much my veiw on Sanatana Dharma , ..it is the unchanging principles that support us on our spiritual journey , ....Yamas and Niyamas are the same eternal unchanging principles that bring embodied souls up to the level of Ishwara Realisation , ..if atheist or secularist dosent want to examine or accknowledge this and they are happy to practice just five yamas and five niyamas , then I think eventualy five will lead to understanding of the importance of Ten , ....to me truth lay in the practice and development of the full ten , ...

 

[Shantanu]

Namaskaram Shantanu ji



yes and also our relationship with it and our duty towards it , ....



Jai Jai certainly yes , ...we are to surrender to Ishwara , ...what you say is very nice , ..''the best way to derive information to live ones life as fruitfully as possible.'' ....this is very important



I am Vaisnava , but I do not think that I should follow scripture without thinking about its meaning , I also belive that we should learn to think for ourselves , ..to know what would please Sri Krsna and to act accordingly , personaly I find many things in the Gita that we should not take only in a littereal sence , but that should be taken as an example of how we too should act in any given situation , and yes I do think that Krsna speaks to us personaly and guides us through our own personal experiences , ....I am also Vaisnava but realise the importance of the Yamas and Niyamas , but I think as Vaisnava we learn them in a differnt way , ..but still we conform to the ful 10 Yamas , 10 Niyamas , ...but yes I think Religious Hindu is an acurate description also followers of Sanatana Dharma , ....as to me 10 Yamas 10 Niyamas is eternal relogious principles , eternal religious principles is Sanatana Dharma , ...



this is very much my veiw on Sanatana Dharma , ..it is the unchanging principles that support us on our spiritual journey , ....Yamas and Niyamas are the same eternal unchanging principles that bring embodied souls up to the level of Ishwara Realisation , ..if atheist or secularist dosent want to examine or accknowledge this and they are happy to practice just five yamas and five niyamas , then I think eventualy five will lead to understanding of the importance of Ten , ....to me truth lay in the practice and development of the full ten , ...

In order to determine whether the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali were of a higher level of knowledge than the originals, please can you cite where you got the original 10 Yamas and 10 Niyamas from; you mentioned Rig Veda. Please confirm or provide a link so that I can investigate.

Secondly, Patanjali seems to have removed 'Dana' or giving in charity/sharing things with others as being a necessary Niyama, would you agree? and if so do you think he was justified in doing so?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Patanjali asked for Santosha - satisfaction, being content with little and Aparigraha - non-covetousness. If anyone has more money than what he/she needs, then what is the option - Dana.

 

[Shantanu]

The following background information gives some idea of the origins of the Ten Yamas and Niyamas:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamas#Ten_Yamas
The ten yamas listed by Śāṇḍilya Upanishad,[14] as well as by Svātmārāma are:[4][15][16]

1. Ahiṃsā (अहिंसा): Nonviolence
2. Satya (सत्य): truthfulness
3. Asteya (अस्तेय): not stealing
4. Brahmacharya (ब्रह्मचर्य): chastity,[12] marital fidelity or sexual restraint[13]
5. Kṣamā (क्षमा): forgiveness[17]
6. Dhṛti (धृति): fortitude
7. Dayā (दया): compassion[17]
8. Ārjava (आर्जव): non-hypocrisy, sincerity[18]
9. Mitāhāra (मितहार): measured diet
10. Śauca (शौच): purity, cleanliness

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niyama
Ten Niyamas
In the diverse traditions and historical debate within Hinduism, some texts suggest a different and expanded list of niyamas. For example, the Shandilya and Varuha Upanishads,[13] the Hatha Yoga Pradipika,[14] verses 552 to 557 in Book 3 of the Tirumandhiram of Tirumular suggest ten niyamas,[15] in the sense of positive duties, desirable behaviors and discipline. The Hatha Yoga Pradipika lists the ten niyamas in the following order, in verse 1.18,[14][16]

1. Tapas: persistence, perseverance in one's purpose, austerity[17][10]
2. Santoṣa: contentment, acceptance of others and of one's circumstances as they are, optimism for self[2]
3. Āstika: faith in Real Self (jnana yoga, raja yoga), belief in God (bhakti yoga), conviction in Vedas/Upanishads (orthodox school)
4. Dāna: generosity, charity, sharing with others[18]
5. Īśvarapūjana: worship of the Ishvara (God/Supreme Being, Brahman, True Self, Unchanging Reality)[19]
6. Siddhānta vakya śrāvaṇa: listening to the ancient scriptures
7. Hrī: remorse and acceptance of one's past, modesty, humility[14][20]
8. Mati: think and reflect to understand, reconcile conflicting ideas[21]
9. Japa: mantra repetition, reciting prayers or knowledge[22]
10. Huta: rituals, ceremonies such as yajna sacrifice

Some texts replace the last niyama of Huta with Vrata. The niyama of Vrata means making and keeping one's vows (resolutions), which may be pious observances.[23] For example, a promise to fast and visit a pilgrimage site is a form of Vrata. The education process in ancient India, where Vedas and Upanishads were memorized and transmitted across generations without ever being written down, required a series of Vrata niyamas over a number of years.[24]

 

[Shantanu]

Patanjali asked for Santosha - satisfaction, being content with little and Aparigraha - non-covetousness. If anyone has more money than what he/she needs, then what is the option - Dana.

But a person who is dani has no concern for whether he has sufficient or not or what might happen to him/her the next day as to where his next lot of food and necessities are coming from. He or she gives whenever there is a request for help (from beggars or donations are sought from charities). And that request could come from any human being. Is this realistic, that is my question.

Is it not better to do what you are indicating; be practical, if you have more than enough then be as charitable as possible? And one needs to judge the person and the organisation to whom the money is being given so that it is seen to being put to good use and not for bad use, surely?

So @ratikala I really do not know how realistic the 10 Niyamas are as being something that should be rigidly cultivated in a person.

 

[ratikala]

Namaskaram Shantanu ji

In order to determine whether the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali were of a higher level of knowledge than the originals, please can you cite where you got the original 10 Yamas and 10 Niyamas from; you mentioned Rig Veda. Please confirm or provide a link so that I can investigate.

Sri Krsna mentions Raj Yoga in the Gita , ....it is the Dharma of Kings , ....when Sri Krsna says ''I instructed this supreme science to Vivisvan , ....'' ...that 'Supreme Science' contained this Dharma of Kings , ...therefore througout time there has been mention of the Principles of Raj yoga , ..it is mentioned in the Rig veda and throughout the upanisaids , ...although the references are scattered , ...

I will try to give some references this evening , .....

Secondly, Patanjali seems to have removed 'Dana' or giving in charity/sharing things with others as being a necessary Niyama, would you agree? and if so do you think he was justified in doing so?

at present I do not want to discuss justification of Patanjali , although personaly I feel that Dhana is esential , ....

..but instead may l refer you to the words of Sri Krsna , ....

''As fire is covered by smoke, as a mirror is covered by dust, or as the embryo is covered by the womb, similarly, the living entity is covered by different degrees of this lust.'' Ch ..3 V ..38

''Thus knowing oneself to be transcendental to material senses, mind and intelligence, one should control the lower self by the higher self and thus—by spiritual strength—conquer this insatiable enemy known as lust.'' .. V ..43

​

as this is so , as we are covered by ignorance and subject to lust , ..and to Greed , ....we need an antidote practice , ...'Dhana' the practice of Giving , ......if we cultivate generosity we will most certainly remove the tendancy towars self grasping , ....if we train in thinking of others we will subdue our own Greed , ....

 

[Shantanu]

Namaskaram Shantanu ji



Sri Krsna mentions Raj Yoga in the Gita , ....it is the Dharma of Kings , ....when Sri Krsna says ''I instructed this supreme science to Vivisvan , ....'' ...that 'Supreme Science' contained this Dharma of Kings , ...therefore througout time there has been mention of the Principles of Raj yoga , ..it is mentioned in the Rig veda and throughout the upanisaids , ...although the references are scattered , ...

I will try to give some references this evening , .....



at present I do not want to discuss justification of Patanjali , although personaly I feel that Dhana is esential , ....

..but instead may l refer you to the words of Sri Krsna , ....

''As fire is covered by smoke, as a mirror is covered by dust, or as the embryo is covered by the womb, similarly, the living entity is covered by different degrees of this lust.'' Ch ..3 V ..38

''Thus knowing oneself to be transcendental to material senses, mind and intelligence, one should control the lower self by the higher self and thus—by spiritual strength—conquer this insatiable enemy known as lust.'' .. V ..43

​

as this is so , as we are covered by ignorance and subject to lust , ..and to Greed , ....we need an antidote practice , ...'Dhana' the practice of Giving , ......if we cultivate generosity we will most certainly remove the tendancy towars self grasping , ....if we train in thinking of others we will subdue our own Greed , ....

Take other Yamas: Daya (Compassion); Kshama (Forgiveness) give me particular concerns for what I have learnt from Sri Krishna in my personal life is that one must never forgive but fight; one must show no compassion to evil perpetrators and batter them as hard as you can and as intelligently as one can so that one still survives. Similarly, tapas (austerity) is a strategy in the art of survival with dignity; it is not something to be cultivated to become a holy person like a Christian or a Mahatma Gandhi. Life is about fighting to survive with dignity using every strategy that one can to combat ones enemies all across the board. These may be people with own agendas. They must not stand in one's way to know the sublime truth, the truth that can only come from close association with God.