incorperating Yamas and Niyamas into our Sadhana , can we realy call our selves Hindu if we dont ?

[Terese]

Aupji's mood reminds me of the mood of Tulsi das towards His worshippable Lord, Sri Rama. It is such a beautiful bhava. If only I had an atom of that mood towards my dear Lord Nitai, then my life would be successful Does it matter if the Lord's form is green or blue? The Lord's form is so beautiful that it was able to attract the renounced sages of Dandakaranya (who had been meditating for hundreds of years). If we saw that form, we would faint. There is a very important verse in the Bhagavatam, about this:

ātmārāmāś ca munayo
nirgranthā apy urukrame
kurvanty ahaitukīṁ bhaktim
ittham-bhūta-guṇo hariḥ

"All different varieties of ātmārāmas [those who take pleasure in the ātmā, or spirit self], especially those established on the path of self-realization, though freed from all kinds of material bondage, desire to render unalloyed devotional service unto Sri Hari"

Lord Chaitanya gave 100 meanings of this verse. Tulsidas also says the same thing:

sadhaksiddha bimukta udasi, kavi kovida vikrthajna sanyasi,
jogi sur sutapas jnani dhrma nirat pandit vijnani

"The practitioner, and the perfected, the liberated and the depressed, whether they be the greatest poet, the most renounced or a Sannayasi. Even if they are a Yogi, or a demigod or even son of a god, or a jnani. Or if they are perfect in dharma, or a pandit, or even a realized soul"

trarina binu seem nam svami ram namami nami namami”.

"These persons cannot be delivered without my Lord. To that Rama, I bow again and again!"

Mo sama dina na dina hita, tuma samana raghubira
Asa vicari raghubansa mani, harahu visama bhava bhlra

I am the most fallen, there is no one as fallen as me, and there is also no-one, who is more merciful, then You, my Lord Rama. Considering this O crest jewel of the the clan of Raghu, please take away this disease of material existence

Kamihi nari piyari jimi, lobhihi priya jimi dama
Timi raghunatha nirantara, priya lagahu mohi rama

"As a lustful man loves women and a greedy person loves money, O Raghunath, with the same intensity may I love you."

Who is Tulsi das? And who is that man singing in the video?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Nitai Das ji, depressed is not the correct translation of Udasi, it is uninvolved, tatashtha, unconcerned. I appreciate your knowledge of bhakti verses.

 

[Kirran]

Thanks for the thread ratikala!

For the purposes of comprehensiveness, I'll also reproduce Patanjali's Yamas and Niyamas, of which there are five each. He taught that being established in these was necessary for advancement in raja yoga, the path to union with God through meditation.

Yama

Ahimsa - non-violence, in thought, word and deed. First and foremost, quite rightly.
Satya - truthfulness, honesty. With yourself, with others. Integrity.
Asteya - non-stealing, non-coveting. Extends to not taking more than you need, not taking resources selfishly. Sustain yourself healthily and simply
Brahmacharya - includes celibacy (thought, word and deed) but includes also continence and appropriate use of your energy anyway - don't become scattered by always multitasking etc.
Aparigraha - non-jealousy, non-covetousness.

Niyama

Shaucha - cleanliness - aiming to keep yourself clean in body - not necessarily in terms of dirt etc, but in terms of health, flow of energy (many yogi sadhus are very dirty, by appearances ) and then also in your subtle body. Shaucha is said to lead to disdain for the body!
Santosha - satisfaction, being content with what you're provided.
Tapas - discipline, related to the word for burning or fire - tapas is burning austerity borne from gradually leaving aside all desire but for the divine. Earlier on, it can start with saying 'I will meditate for 10 minutes a day '
Svadhyaya - study of the scriptures, and of the self. So both introspection and contemplation upon teachings from the Vedas, the BG, the Yoga Sutras, the Ashtavakra Gita, writings and sayings of sages such as Shankara and Ramana, as you like.
Ishvarapranidhana - surrender of the self to the Lord.

As you explore these, they very much dovetail together - e.g. surrendering to the Lord (Ishvarapranidhana) is very purifying (Shaucha) and includes being content with what you're given (Santosha)

Swami Satchidananda said that actually if you were to really perfect even any one of these ten, then you would attain to moksha. So really Patanjali seems to have been saying we need to establish ourselves in these and then go deeper into them as we progress into the other six limbs of his practices.

Asana - physical posture
Pranayama - breath control
Pratyahara - withdrawal of senses from objects
Dharana - one-pointedness of mind
Dhyana - flowing meditation
Samadhi - union, a state deep within meditation where there is no longer any subject-object division.

 

[निताइ dasa]

Nitai Das ji, depressed is not the correct translation of Udasi, it is uninvolved, tatashtha, unconcerned. I appreciate your knowledge of bhakti verses.

Thank you, I will correct. I was stuck on that word.

Who is Tulsi das? And who is that man singing in the video?

Tulsidas Goswami is the writer of Ramacharitra Manas which is the Ramayan which is written in his dialect of Awadhi. It is the most popular form of Ramayan which is sung in Hindu households even till today. He was great devotee of Lord Rama, and came from the Ramanandi sect of the Sri Sampradaya.

The man in the video (who is also the singer) is called Ramabhadracharya is from Tulsidas's sampradaya. He was born blind, yet never used tools like braille to help him read. He has memorized the major scriptures like Bhagavatam and the Upanisads, and has written his own commentary on many of them, including the Prasthana trayi (Gita, Vedanta Sutra and Upanisads). Though he is not in my Sampradaya and we have our disagreements, I have the uttermost respect for him, I would like rub the dust of his lotus feet on my forehead. In my opinion, he is a very exalted Vaishnav whose teachings are in accordance with Bhagavatam..

 

[Aupmanyav]

Quite possible and unfortunate. However, I deleted my post because you had already given information about Acharya Ramabhadra Das and his sect.

 

[Kirran]

Thanks for this Kirranji. It is a beautiful post, I think we should try and apply it to our lives

Thankyou Nitai-Das!

Yes, agreed.

I think perhaps Shaucha would also extend to keeping to atmospheres and environments which are positive, uplifting, so as to maintain focus and not become possessive. Having thought about it just now.

Once one begins to become established, the inner guru in the form of the conscience can begin to be more easily heard anyway, so it becomes natural.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yes, Kirran. Ahimsa, Compassion, is a sign of that.

 

[sayak83]

Just a thought that occured to me recently , ....

although we often think of the Yamas and Niyamas as belinging to the Yoga schools as Patanjali taught the Five Yamas and Five Niyamas , ...they are mentioned in Rig Veda , ...

originaly Ten of each , ...Yamas being restraints , ...and Niyamas being observances , ....

the question is can we realy call ourselves Hindu if we dont at least try to follow them ?

The Ten Yamas ; ... Restraints , ...

1. Ahimsa ; ...nonviolence
2. Satya ; ......truthfulness
3. Asteya ; ....non stealing
4. Brahmacharya ; ...chastity , or restraint
5. Ksama ; ....forgiveness
6. Dhrti ; ....... fortitude
   
7. Daya ; .......Compassion
   
8. Arjava ; ......Sincerity , absence of Hypocracy
   
9. Mitahara ; ..moderation in diet
   
10. Sauca ; .....physical and mental purity (cleanliness)

The Ten Niyamas ; ...Observances , ...

1. Tapas ; .....austerity
2. Santosa ; ..contentment , joyfull acceptance
   
3. Astika ; .....faith in God (or divine higer self)
   
4. Dana ; ......giving in charity or sharing with others
5. Isvarapujana ;....worship of the Ishvara ... (the supreme as person or higer self)
   
6. Siddhanta Vakya Sravana ; ...Hearing discourses or recitations of the ancient scriptures
7. Hri ; ........ cultivating modesty and humility , ...developing remorse for one's previous actions
   
8. Mati ; .......developing understanding , ....reconcileing or resolving conflicting ideas
9. Japa ; ...... recitation of mantra
   
10. Huta ; .......performance of rituals , (Yajna)

Japa and Huta seem non-essential. A person devoted to sadhana of self-less action or knowledge/truth do not necessarily need to do Isvarapujana. In general they may be virtues that can be aspired for and perfected, but are certainly not a criteria for being a Hindu or being excluded from Hinduism.
I am unsure if the primary meaning of Brahmacharya is the attitude of studentship that secondarily involves restraint of Kama that disrupts the mind that can absorb understanding and gain wisdom from a teacher, or the primary meaning is restraint of sense pleasures. I think its the former.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Beg to diifer. Japa, Huta, Ishwarpujana, and restrain in sex (ek-patni vrata) will be beneficial for most people. Of course, my sadhana does not include the first three, I have graduated from that level. The fourth has been decided by age, though I miss it.

 

[sayak83]

Beg to diifer. Japa, Huta, Ishwarpujana, and restrain in sex (ek-patni vrata) will be beneficial for most people. Of course, my sadhana does not include the first three, I have graduated from that level. The fourth has been decided by age, though I miss it.

I am talking in general, as this makes Iswarchandra Vidyasagar and Rabindranath Thakur not Hindus. They are not orthodox Hindus certainly, being not very impressed by either rituals or Vedas, but its downright silly to call them non-Hindu.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Why? I consider myself an orthodox Hindu but do not need Japa, Huta, and Ishwarapujana. Depends on what philosophy one follows. In what way I am not an orthodox Hindu?

 

[Shantanu]

Japa and Huta seem non-essential. A person devoted to sadhana of self-less action or knowledge/truth do not necessarily need to do Isvarapujana. In general they may be virtues that can be aspired for and perfected, but are certainly not a criteria for being a Hindu or being excluded from Hinduism.
I am unsure if the primary meaning of Brahmacharya is the attitude of studentship that secondarily involves restraint of Kama that disrupts the mind that can absorb understanding and gain wisdom from a teacher, or the primary meaning is restraint of sense pleasures. I think its the former.

I wish to clarify some misconceptions about Hinduism in light of @Aupmanyav 's remark of 'in what way is he not a Hindu'. This would apply to all secular thinkers like the ones you mention (eg Tagore). I distinguish Hindus into two groups, religious Hindus and irreligious Hindus. I have nothing in common with irreligious Hindus and distance myself from them. Religious and irreligious Hindus are the sources of fertile thoughts or dry thoughts respectively. Dry thoughts are those that have too many inconsistencies to be taken seriously and are based on sensual perception only. Fertile thoughts are those that are based on a total comprehension of Reality.

Let us then examine religious Hinduism: this is encapsulated in the Yamas and Niyamas that have been outlined so well by ratikalaji in this thread. For this all the Restraints and Observances are important in developing an child into a sublime human being. This is of great importance for Brahmins in particular, but I take the view that anyone who wishes to be a Brahmin is a Brahmin if he follows the traditions outlined. The Brahmin at the age of 11-15 years has to undertake a sacred thread ceremony to enter Brahmaacharya. So what is Brahmaacharya. It is not a bland study of Reality: it is the study of the religious basis of the energy component of the universe otherwise known as Brahman. Of course within Brahmins there are also specialised priests (pandas) who serve society through their knowledge of vedic rituals and mantras on all aspects of life like birth, death, marriage and other ceremonies that may worship particular gods.

For the Brahmacharya who takes vows at the sacred thread ceremony to be born as a Brahmin, at the end of his daily bath it is highly recommended that the following mantra is recited by him: 'Om bhurvasya tat sabi tu varenyam bhargo devasya dhi mahi dhiyena prochodayat Om' x3. Why 3? - because the energy component of the universe consists of the Trimurti triad of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. The recitation of this mantra gives the mind the focus on Brahman and Brahman-gyana for which Huta should also be practiced, for example the following ritual before one's meals: putting aside some small amount of food from the plate outside for the insects and other creatures with the mantra: 'Kama krodha lobha moha binasijaye aham eva nanank prabhu saranagati kara prasad guru deva Om' as a offering to God before one eats. God here is called Ishwara and has no other name for this form of religious life is meant to provide the person with peace of mind that a non-descript God is acknowledged as the overall reality within which the Brahmin undertakes his studies and performs his duties to Vedic society. That is Brahmacharya. For this I will agree with @ratikala that all the Yamas and Niyamas are essential components of the life of a religious Hindu. For irreligious HIndus they need not adopt anything and go their own ways.

One other thing to bear in mind is that the Supreme God Sri Krishna who is the Creator and Preserver of the Universe is beyond all this as He does not induce anyone to worship Him. He merely descends through avatar from time to time (yuga to yoga) in human history to restore dharma and protect the good and destroy evil.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Your post does not make me into an unorthodox Hindu. Only that japa, homa and ishwarapranidhana are not needed by me (others may still need them). As I have already said I have crossed that stage. It does not make me irreligious. I am and advaitist, religious and orthodox to the core. We study Newtonian physics initially and later graduate to Relativity and Quantum Mechanics which is different from it.

 

[Shantanu]

Your post does not make me into an unorthodox Hindu. Only that japa, homa and ishwarapranidhana are not needed by me (others may still need them). As I have already said I have crossed that stage. It does not make me irreligious. I am and advaitist, religious and orthodox to the core. We study Newtonian physics initially and later graduate to Relativity and Quantum Mechanics which is different from it.

I do not know of any religion that does not require the adherent to perform certain rituals. An atheist cannot perform such rituals, so is irreligious. By orthodox Hindu you might mean all those living East of Sindh who do are not Christians or Muslims and have names derived from Sanskrit language or its derivatives. Please clarify.

 

[Aupmanyav]

What rituals are necessary for a particular philosophy/belief will be decided by those people who follow that philosophy or belief. It does not concern the others and they have no 'locus standi' in this matter. Of course, following one's 'dharma' is the essential for all Hindus as for other people too (according to BhagawadGita, they should follow their own 'dharma').

 

[Kirran]

Many Buddhists are atheist, and yet observe rituals.

Same for many Mimamsakaras, although they also include polytheists.

 

[Shantanu]

What rituals are necessary for a particular philosophy/belief will be decided by those people who follow that philosophy or belief. It does not concern the others and they have no 'locus standi' in this matter. Of course, following one's 'dharma' is the essential for all Hindus as for other people too (according to BhagawadGita, they should follow their own 'dharma').

Advaita is a philosophical belief, not a religion; just like Buddhism. I do not think that in atheistic advaita there are any practices. I do not think advaitists even light a candle to Brahman or whoever. So they have no rituals which are offerings and invocations of the supernatural.

On dharma, there is no consistent duties and righteous actions that binds all Hindus together so Hinduism is not defined by having 'dharma' as an essential component. Religious Hindus have more in common with Muslims than with atheistic advaitists and Buddhists.

 

[Shantanu]

Many Buddhists are atheist, and yet observe rituals.

Who would atheist Buddhists perform their rituals as an offer to? - or what purpose do the rituals serve? Is this not an indication of their confusion over the supernatural?

 

[Aupmanyav]

On dharma, there is no consistent duties and righteous actions that binds all Hindus together so Hinduism is not defined by having 'dharma' as an essential component. Religious Hindus have more in common with Muslims than with atheistic advaitists and Buddhists.

Well, all types of views. 'Tunde-tunde matirbhiina'.

 

[Kirran]

Who would atheist Buddhists perform their rituals as an offer to? - or what purpose do the rituals serve? Is this not an indication of their confusion over the supernatural?

Not necessarily anybody. The ritual can be useful for the practitioner. Or they may not believe in God, but believe that ancestors, teachers etc can hear them.

I wouldn't say they are necessarily confused, no. Just different to theistic takes.