Incest

[edwinic]

I often hear "I have no objection to sex between two consenting adults"
Should we apply the same degree of tolerance to incestious relations?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I often hear "I have no objection to sex between two consenting adults"
Should we apply the same degree of tolerance to incestious relations?

While incest seems to be a fairly universal taboo there is no doubt that it goes on, and always has.
In some countries it is severely punished, in others no one seems to care enough to try to stop it. (incest cases rarely come to court)

There is a massive difference when incest involves minors with adults. In most countries this is not only incest but also rape.

Some countries even let people in incestuous relationships marry, but only with special dispensation.

I know of no religion that permits incest.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

I often hear "I have no objection to sex between two consenting adults"
Should we apply the same degree of tolerance to incestious relations?

I do, though I can't say I've ever had to apply the stance to practice. Incestuous couples rarely are open about it.

 

[Alceste]

Grosses me out, but really none of my business.

 

[columbus]

I often hear "I have no objection to sex between two consenting adults"
Should we apply the same degree of tolerance to incestious relations?

A serious incestual relationship strongly implies socialization issues and control issues that might benefit from intervention. But at the end of the day the question remains, "Is someone being harmed?".

Tom

 

[edwinic]

A serious incestual relationship strongly implies socialization issues and control issues that might benefit from intervention.

Tom

What do you mean with "socialization and control issues"?

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I know this is nontheistic DIR, but for those who are not against it - what are your thoughts of the genetic mutations that come out of it? Isn't that a problem?

 

[Alceste]

I know this is nontheistic DIR, but for those who are not against it - what are your thoughts of the genetic mutations that come out of it? Isn't that a problem?

Doesn't seem to be that pressing of a problem, since we are not already inundated with the mutated offspring of incestuous relationships.

As I say, it grosses me out but it's none of my business what two consenting adults choose to do together.

I think that sometimes people assume that keeping our noses out of other people's business will magically cause more people to get up to nasty business more often.

I don't subscribe to that belief. I think people are going to do what people are going to do whether I'm lurking outside their bedroom window wringing my hands about it or not. So I might as well not, ESPECIALLY if it's something I personally feel is icky, like incest.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Doesn't seem to be that pressing of a problem, since we are not already inundated with the mutated offspring of incestuous relationships.

As I say, it grosses me out but it's none of my business what two consenting adults choose to do together.

I think that sometimes people assume that keeping our noses out of other people's business will magically cause more people to get up to nasty business more often.

I don't subscribe to that belief. I think people are going to do what people are going to do whether I'm lurking outside their bedroom window wringing my hands about it or not. So I might as well not, ESPECIALLY if it's something I personally feel is icky, like incest.

I do not subscribe to that belief either - but I think it certainly wouldn't lessen the nasty business.

Thanks for the reply, and now I will butt out of this DIR

 

[Gjallarhorn]

I know this is nontheistic DIR, but for those who are not against it - what are your thoughts of the genetic mutations that come out of it? Isn't that a problem?

Do we prevent any other type of couple from reproducing on the grounds of potential birth defects?

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Do we prevent any other type of couple from reproducing on the grounds of potential birth defects?

No, but isn't that because they are hard to really control it?

 

[Alceste]

No, but isn't that because they are hard to really control it?

No, it's because it's none of our business.

 

[zenzero]

Friend edwinic,

I often hear "I have no objection to sex between two consenting adults"
Should we apply the same degree of tolerance to incestious relations?

Why ask? Your consciousness itself will tell you if such relationship is of any fruitful meaning or not.
About animals? here is a response from Do wild animals avoid incest? - The Naked Scientists

Diana - There are a few adaptations. One interesting one is hyenas. Apparently, female hyenas will only breed with males that have been recently born into their group or who have just recently joined it. And male hyenas will only move to new groups of females to breed. So they've got a sort of social setup which helps to avoid incest. But, on a more sort of scientific level, lemurs actually use scent. They use pheromones on their naughty bits to detect who is the most closely related to them and who’s the farthest sort of relation. The females who will actually smell the males and decide “he seems perhaps a bit of a close relative. I'm not going to go there.” but I think Chris, isn’t there also something about mice?

Chris - Well, mice are intriguing. The explanation for mice is that the genes which are concerned with smell are found on the same part of the genome as the genes that control how the immune system decorates cells so they can recognise each other. The idea is that if mice smell alike, they probably have a very similar immune system as well. The problem with this is that if you have an immune system that's too similar, it shows you're very genetically related and so, if you have your smell system programmed to recognise someone who’s very closely related to you, it means it’s a bad idea to mate with them. People have done experiments: If you take a male mouse and a female mouse, and they're brother and sister, if you force them and you put them in a caged environment where they haven’t got any choice, then they will mate with each other and have offspring. But if you introduce a second mouse, so you've got the mouse’s brother and then another male mouse that's unrelated, then the female mouse will preferentially mate with the one she's not related to. And if you introduce the second male mouse after the mouse is already mated and is already pregnant, she can abort the pregnancy and then mate with the new mouse.

So, they are very strongly trying to avoid incest at all cost, it would appear.

Love & rgds

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Most domestic animals are totally unselective about mates, this include cats, dogs, rabbits, sheep, goats, pigs, cows and horses. You have to hunt quite hard to find exceptions to this.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I often hear "I have no objection to sex between two consenting adults"
Should we apply the same degree of tolerance to incestious relations?

The degree of consent is questionable in these cases. Family relationships can result in "undue influence" at any age, and the law already recognizes that in other situations, these relationships can create coercive conditions where free consent is impossible. If the law already presumes that this coercion exists between a parent and child, for instance, when doing a business deal, I'm not sure why we would presume that there's no coercion when we're talking about sex.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Most domestic animals are totally unselective about mates, this include cats, dogs, rabbits, sheep, goats, pigs, cows and horses. You have to hunt quite hard to find exceptions to this.

Well, that would lend weight to the "Humans are domesticated" theory.

 

[HexBomb]

The degree of consent is questionable in these cases. Family relationships can result in "undue influence" at any age, and the law already recognizes that in other situations, these relationships can create coercive conditions where free consent is impossible. If the law already presumes that this coercion exists between a parent and child, for instance, when doing a business deal, I'm not sure why we would presume that there's no coercion when we're talking about sex.

What about cases of adopted people then getting involved with biological family members they were never raised around? Or children of sperm donation? I mean, in those situations, especially when people are unaware of relation, it can be hard to fight against genetic sexual attraction, look at the most famous story of incest, Oedipus. He had no idea Jocasta was his mother.

I mean, unless every state starts doing blood tests that include genetic testing, people don't always know.

 

[The Adept]

Nature is against inbreeding.
They should stop being soo selfish.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Nature is against inbreeding.
They should stop being soo selfish.

Wow. This is practically the worst argument for anything I've ever seen.

Nature isn't against anything and everything is selfish.

 

[KnightOwl]

As usual, the law is based on good intentions but is applied with a broad stroke. Which is more harmfiul? Sterilized siblings marrying or Fertile cousins twice removed marrying? The first typically cannot marry while the latter are free to do so. There is a greater chance of birth defects in the 2nd scenario.

The bottom line for me is, there should be an exception for couples who take steps to avoid pregnancy. Of course this presumes we still have government marriage as we do now. Personally, I think marriage as a government institution has run its course.