In God's Image?

[sojourner]

There's gotta be more to God than love though. or would you explain to me how an emotion created the universe?

So let me get this straight...

God has perfect love. We reflect that perfect love. But just as a reflection in a mirror is not perfect (due to imperfections in the glass etc), our reflection of God's love is not perfect. I think that's what you're saying.

But that still leads me to the conclusion that anything that can express love is thus made in God's image, not just Humans.

Again...love is not an attribute of God. Love does not serve to define God. God defines love.

No. God doesn't have the emotion of love. God is love. And love is more than what we experience as emotion. It is a way of being. Please note that I not only said "reflect" love, I also said understand it and participate in it. I'm not so sure that any creature other than human beings can participate in this particular way of being.

 

[Tiberius]

Again...love is not an attribute of God. Love does not serve to define God. God defines love.

An attribute is something that you have. If you have red hair, then red hair is an attribute.

if Love is not an attribute of God, then God cannot experience love!

Love IS an attribute of God if God exists.

No. God doesn't have the emotion of love. God is love.

Isn't this the same as saying, "Water doesn't have wetness, it IS wetness"?

And love is more than what we experience as emotion. It is a way of being. Please note that I not only said "reflect" love, I also said understand it and participate in it. I'm not so sure that any creature other than human beings can participate in this particular way of being.

So again you are saying it has to be a particular kind of love. I'm sorry, but you seem to be changing your argument.

Please tell me WHY all these other kinds of love - love between spuses, between parent and child, between best friends - just don't count.

 

[Scuba Pete]

There's gotta be more to God than love though. or would you explain to me how an emotion created the universe?

True love is a decision: not an emotion. Too many people confuse lust or warm fuzzies for love. Agape (true) love means changing your infant's diaper just because. It's the "for better or worse" part of the marriage vows. It's a commitment to put the other person's needs ABOVE your own.

 

[sojourner]

True love is a decision: not an emotion. Too many people confuse lust or warm fuzzies for love. Agape (true) love means changing your infant's diaper just because. It's the "for better or worse" part of the marriage vows. It's a commitment to put the other person's needs ABOVE your own.

Can't frubal you, but wish I could!!!

 

[Tiberius]

True love is a decision: not an emotion. Too many people confuse lust or warm fuzzies for love. Agape (true) love means changing your infant's diaper just because. It's the "for better or worse" part of the marriage vows. It's a commitment to put the other person's needs ABOVE your own.

Sorry, I still have no idea what you are trying to say.

Can you show me anything to support your claim that love is a choice and not an emotion?

Secondly, if God is love and love is a decision, are you saying that God is a decision? There is a difference between a decision and the one who makes the decision, so if God is a decision, then there must be someone who made that decision. is that us? if so, how could God exist billions of years ago in order to create us? And how in the world did a decision create the universe?

 

[sojourner]

Sorry, I still have no idea what you are trying to say.

Can you show me anything to support your claim that love is a choice and not an emotion?

Secondly, if God is love and love is a decision, are you saying that God is a decision? There is a difference between a decision and the one who makes the decision, so if God is a decision, then there must be someone who made that decision. is that us? if so, how could God exist billions of years ago in order to create us? And how in the world did a decision create the universe?

The Bible says that we're created in God's image. It's a theological statement -- not a scientific statement. If you're going to understand the theological stance, you're going to have to be willing to think theologically, which you've not demonstrated here that you're willing to do.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Sorry, I still have no idea what you are trying to say.

Honesty is always best!

Can you show me anything to support your claim that love is a choice and not an emotion?

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son..." NIV

I Corinthians 13:4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
8Love never fails. NIV

I John 4:10 This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. 11 Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us. NIV

There are more should you want them. Look at the verbs: True Love is an ACTION that stems from a decision to put the needs of others FIRST.

Secondly, if God is love and love is a decision, are you saying that God is a decision?

This is truly a non sequitur.

There is a difference between a decision and the one who makes the decision, so if God is a decision, then there must be someone who made that decision. is that us? if so, how could God exist billions of years ago in order to create us? And how in the world did a decision create the universe?

This is nothing more than a Fool's Dilemma: If God can do anything, then why can't he make a rock SO BIG that he himself can't lift it?

 

[cardero]

I think "image" as it pertains to this case is thought. As an artist, sometimes I have to come up with images before I put them down on paper. This scripture I think would deal primarily with GOD's imagination and not really pertain to GOD's personal aspects, qualities or reflective images. SInce we have two different genders, many races and colors it would seem that a great deal of liberty and consideration were put into the designs of these human costumes.

 

[sojourner]

I think "image" as it pertains to this case is thought. As an artist, sometimes I have to come up with images before I put them down on paper. This scripture I think would deal primarily with GOD's imagination and not really pertain to GOD's personal aspects, qualities or reflective images. SInce we have two different genders, many races and colors it would seem that a great deal of liberty and consideration were put into the designs of these human costumes.

that's a very good point. As an artist, look at it this way: God is creator -- we are created. Humanity is the best representation of God's creativity.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

What exactly does this mean? In what way are we in God's image?

In our ability to choose. God has the ability to choose freely God's actions, and because of our intellect and gifts, we are able to choose in a way that animals can't. Animals can only follow their instincts, but humans can follow their intellect and make rational choices.

Is it literal appearance? I don't see how this could be, as God (being all-powerful) could easily appear to us as an elephant if he wanted to.

Of course not.

Is it in wisdom? Obviously not, because when Adam and Eve were created they didn't even have wisdom enough to tell good from evil.

Wisdom... I think so. Adam and Eve had the wisdom to tell good from evil - what they gained was an experiential knowledge of good and evil and not an intellectual one. They knew that evil was disobeying the Lord, but did not know evil until they did it.

Is it in spirit? That would mean that our spirit is like the spirit of God. I can't imagine that there would be many Xians who'd be prepared to admit to that.

No. The Hebrews did not have an anthropology that would support the Platonic seperation of mind/spirit/body.

In emotion? Then that would mean that the love God feels for us is a love we can experience ourselves.

Perhaps.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I think "image" as it pertains to this case is thought. As an artist, sometimes I have to come up with images before I put them down on paper. This scripture I think would deal primarily with GOD's imagination and not really pertain to GOD's personal aspects, qualities or reflective images. SInce we have two different genders, many races and colors it would seem that a great deal of liberty and consideration were put into the designs of these human costumes.

I agree. I have often thought that being made in God's image is simply being made exactly as God intended.

 

[Tiberius]

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son..." NIV

I Corinthians 13:4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
8Love never fails. NIV

I John 4:10 This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. 11 Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us. NIV

Do you realise the circular logic of using Biblical verses to support your opinion of the Biblical God? Let me ask another way: Do you have any NON-BIBLICAL sources to support your claim that love is a choice?

There are more should you want them. Look at the verbs: True Love is an ACTION that stems from a decision to put the needs of others FIRST.

And a mother holding her newborn chooses to love the baby? It's not really a choice, not in my experience.

This is truly a non sequitur.

if A is a B, and B is a C, then A is a C.

God = love
Love = choice

if love is equal to God and Choice, then God must be equal to choice. They use these things in IQ tests all the time.

If all spilcks are slecks and all slecks are splocks, then all splicks are splocks.

You've seen those, right?

This is the same thing!

If God is love, and love is a choice, then God is a choice.

This is nothing more than a Fool's Dilemma: If God can do anything, then why can't he make a rock SO BIG that he himself can't lift it?

You've still got to convince me that God is not a choice according to your logic.

By the way, I've never heard a solution to that argument that doesn't redefine God's "can do anything at all" power.

I agree. I have often thought that being made in God's image is simply being made exactly as God intended.

Does this mean that the space shuttle is made in man's image? :areyoucra

 

[Scuba Pete]

Do you realise the circular logic of using Biblical verses to support your opinion of the Biblical God? Let me ask another way: Do you have any NON-BIBLICAL sources to support your claim that love is a choice?

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agape
This article is about the type of love. For the English adjective meaning "wide open", see the Wiktionary definition of agape Agapē (written αγάπη in the Greek alphabet, and pronounced /aga̍pe/ or /a̍gape/), is one of several Greek words meaning love. The word has been used in different ways by a variety of contemporary and ancient sources, including Biblical authors. Many have thought that this word represents divine, unconditional, self-sacrificing, active, volitional, thoughtful love. Greek philosophers at the time of Plato used it in a way that suggested love of that which is below you, rather than philia, love between friends or equals, and eros, love of that which is above you. Eros was seen as the lowest, and agape as the highest. The term was used by the early Christians to refer to the special love for God and God's love for humanity, as well as the self-sacrificing love they believed all should have for each other.
Agape can be defined as an intentional response to promote well-being when responding to that which has generated ill-being (Thomas Jay Oord). Agape, to use the Biblical phrase, returns evil with good. It is a prominent term in the works of C.S. Lewis.

I must point out that I find it rather amusing to be chastised for using scriptural references in the "Biblical Debate" forum. :biglaugh:

 

[Master Of The Universe]

i think that we are gods children and he lives thorugh us and that in the truest form god is just pure energy and at the bass of all things ever existed there is energy and god lives through everything i don't i'm quite spiritually confused of recent

 

[Tiberius]

First thing I see is that page on Wiki is felt to be non-neutral.

Second thing I notice is that is an indirect Biblical source.

Do you have any sources that are not based in any way on the Bible?

The reason I am asking for non-Biblical sources is because as an atheist I do not believe that the Bible is a credible source. Thus, any arguments that are based only on the bible will have no credibility. And if your viewpoint is credible, there would be other sources, yes?

 

[kai]

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness

Its a simple enough sentence why is almost everything god said in the bible open to some kind of interpretation, and it does say, us,our,
this is what keeps me at a distance from the bible, it just doesnt make sence, some one will come along and say ,oh but it means this or it means that ,but it never means what it says

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness

Its a simple enough sentence why is almost everything god said in the bible open to some kind of interpretation, and it does say, us,our,
this is what keeps me at a distance from the bible, it just doesnt make sence, some one will come along and say ,oh but it means this or it means that ,but it never means what it says

I'm guessing you weren't a fan of English or literature in school?
Sometimes, the Bible does mean literally what it says. In fact, that is often the case. However, some Biblical passages are clearly figurative/allegorical. One has to remember that the Bible is a collection of literally dozens of different writings (72 in the Catholic Bible, 66 in the Protestant), written on 3 continents in 3 different languages by over 40 authors in a period of about 1,500 years. There is historical narrative, poetry, epistles, prophecy, etc etc. Thus, the whole Bible cannot be interpreted exactly the same way (i.e., it's not all literal or all figurative). Different authors in different times writing to different people under different circumstances with different intentions dictate in part the apropriate way to interpret a passage. When one notes the historical context, as well as analyzes the grammar of the actual passage or book in question in the original language, the interpretation becomes more clear. Make sense?

FerventGodSeeker

 

[kai]

I'm guessing you weren't a fan of English or literature in school?
Sometimes, the Bible does mean literally what it says. In fact, that is often the case. However, some Biblical passages are clearly figurative/allegorical. One has to remember that the Bible is a collection of literally dozens of different writings (72 in the Catholic Bible, 66 in the Protestant), written on 3 continents in 3 different languages by over 40 authors in a period of about 1,500 years. There is historical narrative, poetry, epistles, prophecy, etc etc. Thus, the whole Bible cannot be interpreted exactly the same way (i.e., it's not all literal or all figurative). Different authors in different times writing to different people under different circumstances with different intentions dictate in part the apropriate way to interpret a passage. When one notes the historical context, as well as analyzes the grammar of the actual passage or book in question in the original language, the interpretation becomes more clear. Make sense?

FerventGodSeeker

yes it makes sense but And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness , when someone writes "and god said "i take that to mean thats what god said,
i beleive in looking at the obvious first so he either said it or he didnt , if he said it then i cant beleive he didnt mean what he said or he didnt say it ,then that clears up my quandary

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

yes it makes sense but And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness , when someone writes "and god said "i take that to mean thats what god said,
i beleive in looking at the obvious first so he either said it or he didnt , if he said it then i cant beleive he didnt mean what he said or he didnt say it ,then that clears up my quandary

Sure He meant what He said, but the point is, what DID He mean by what He said? That's the whole point of the discussion. You're assuming it's a literal pronouncement for no gramattical or historical reason.

FerventGodSeeker

 

[kai]

by the way i have a kingsway living bible and it says "let us make a man someone like ourselves" different in translation but the plurals are still there.