In Genesis the plants were created before the sun moon and stars

[Tomef]

The Bible, even in its historicity, makes so much sense to me that arguments against its reliability and verification are now useless in my mind. That's actually what these "discussions" here have convinced me of.

The various different ways in which it can be made sense of as a narrative don’t necessarily mean historical accuracy. But I don’t think the writers were aiming for historical accuracy in the way we think of it today, I mean such an idea didn’t exist until quite recently, other than maybe the book of Acts - but even then, not in the modern sense, being that it didn’t exist. But it doesn’t need to be accurate to achieve the purposes it was written for.

 

[YoursTrue]

If that makes you happy then go w/ that theory. If you want, you could say that the Bible also advocated child molestation because you experience your inner child being bothered by the Bible. Lots of possibilities.

The idea that I go along w/ is the idea that when Genesis mentions "earth" there is no mention of the "Planet Earth", like the "Planet Jupiter". It's just the word "earth". Please be aware that the old English word for farmer was earthling. By "earthling" they're not talking about a being from the "Planet Earth" but rather someone who works w/ the "earth". Soil. Dirt. Mud.

Maybe a better translation of the first verse could be "In the beginning God created the universe, matter, and space. That first day may well have lasted for a few billion years. Nothing in Genesis contradicts w/ that.

I'd like to say that, looking at your avatar, the creation is so fabulous that any argument against creation by God has now become useless as far as I am concerned. Some people just like to argue, and that's apparent with some here...they call it "logic," but it's actually -- stupidity. That includes the theory of evolution as if it's an absolute no-dispute fact and people want to show why they believe it. Just looking at the way things grow is beyond anyone's comprehension, DNA included. I have become convinced from these posts and looking at the way things grow and develop in general that there is no solid argument against what the Bible says or whether God as creator exists.

 

[YoursTrue]

The various different ways in which it can be made sense of as a narrative don’t necessarily mean historical accuracy. But I don’t think the writers were aiming for historical accuracy in the way we think of it today, I mean such an idea didn’t exist until quite recently, other than maybe the book of Acts - but even then, not in the modern sense, being that it didn’t exist. But it doesn’t need to be accurate to achieve the purposes it was written for.

Since the Bible was written so long ago naturally it does not equate with the science of today. (There were no test tubes or vaccines back then.) But that does not mean it is not true or not inspired by God. It is true, there is no longer any reason in my mind to dispute what the Bible says. Or any reason to argue over it. Actually, the answers by many on these forums have convinced me of that.

 

[Pete in Panama]

There were some of the educatrd elite
who understood the earth is a sphere in
ancient times .
People who concocted 6 day creation, flood etc
we're not those.
And, today, people who don't know the earth is
a sphere out umber those who do...

Please help me out w/ that, or perhaps you simply miswrote what you had in mind. You lost me beginning w/ how you know how Genesis was written by whom & what the writers knew and did not know --down to "today, people who don't know the earth is a sphere out umber those who do." Sounds like you're saying that the don't-knowers out NUMBER the sphere people but my thinking is that we now live in an amazing where where MOST of the 8 billion world population has had some classroom education. They know.

Far from " god inspired" the people who
variously and time devised the tales, those who
picked and chose what to collect into one book
we're just some guys, with no clue to history, biology,
geography or much of anything else.

You're completely right about all the obnoxious people around who've got all the answers & who know everything. OK, so we agree they're "underachievers" but my take is that this is a pitfall we all risk. It's more a question of character than education.

 

[Pete in Panama]

I'd like to say that, looking at your avatar, the creation is so fabulous that any argument against creation by God has now become useless as far as I am concerned. Some people just like to argue, and that's apparent with some here...they call it "logic," but it's actually -- stupidity. That includes the theory of evolution as if it's an absolute no-dispute fact and people want to show why they believe it. Just looking at the way things grow is beyond anyone's comprehension, DNA included. I have become convinced from these posts and looking at the way things grow and develop in general that there is no solid argument against what the Bible says or whether God as creator exists.

My take is that the Bible is the Word of God and that it must be read w/ humility and wisdom. I don't remember anywhere in the Bible where "evolution" is mentioned. What that says to me is that it's not relevant and that the Bible has more important things to talk about.

 

[Pete in Panama]

Yes. I've been reading about what flat-earthers believe and it has convinced me that some people are -- out of their minds if they believe that. No use trying to reason on things with some people. That's what some of these discussions have convinced me of.

It might be a mistake to say the flat earthers are "out of their minds". Flat earth is a useful tool that we all have to apply at times. Sometimes we use Newtonian physics and other times we go w/ Einsteinian physics. We do what we have to in order to navigate though a complex world.

 

[Audie]

If you mean historical fact and accuracy, by modern standards…I don’t know really, for the whole of the Bible? Maybe something like 10 or 15%. I mean most of the monarchs and some of the major events probably refer to real people and things that actually happened, just reinterpreted and embellished. If you narrow that down to the parts specifically intended to be historically accurate then maybe that percentage goes up a bit.

Major events are all supernatural. Six day poof. F.ood, exodus, Babel, Sodom and Gomorrah etc- none are real

What is supposed to be real or worth even reading?

 

[Audie]

My take is that the Bible is the Word of God and that it must be read w/ humility and wisdom. I don't remember anywhere in the Bible where "evolution" is mentioned. What that says to me is that it's not relevant and that the Bible has more important things to talk about.

What's so important about a stories that are
not even true?
A false creation story is more important than
maybe one line of reality?


Reasonable expectation is for a far better book from a god.

 

[Tomef]

Major events are all supernatural. Six day poof. F.ood, exodus, Babel, Sodom and Gomorrah etc- none are real

What is supposed to be real or worth even reading?

To answer that you have to take it on its own terms, what was it written for, for who etc. Trying to evaluate as if it were written last week for a modern audience doesn’t give you the same understanding.

It’s a book that has played quite a major role in forming western culture and societies, influencing and being influenced by the contemporaneous development of ideas in philosophy, the sciences and arts etc. It’s indivisible from any of that and has influenced all of it, as with Confucius’s writings in China, or the myths, stories, ideas that form the foundations of societies in any other part of the world.

 

[YoursTrue]

It might be a mistake to say the flat earthers are "out of their minds". Flat earth is a useful tool that we all have to apply at times. Sometimes we use Newtonian physics and other times we go w/ Einsteinian physics. We do what we have to in order to navigate though a complex world.

Frankly, it doesn't make sense that some might insist the earth is flat. But that's how it goes. Yes, I think those who believe that are out of their minds. Do you believe that, by the way?
@Ajax I mean do you believe the earth is flat.

 

[YoursTrue]

To answer that you have to take it on its own terms, what was it written for, for who etc. Trying to evaluate as if it were written last week for a modern audience doesn’t give you the same understanding.

It’s a book that has played quite a major role in forming western culture and societies, influencing and being influenced by the contemporaneous development of ideas in philosophy, the sciences and arts etc. It’s indivisible from any of that and has influenced all of it, as with Confucius’s writings in China, or the myths, stories, ideas that form the foundations of societies in any other part of the world.

We will see as time moves along how it works out.

 

[YoursTrue]

My take is that the Bible is the Word of God and that it must be read w/ humility and wisdom. I don't remember anywhere in the Bible where "evolution" is mentioned. What that says to me is that it's not relevant and that the Bible has more important things to talk about.

I will agree with you here, Pete. God elucidated his viewpoint in the book of Job when He asked where were you when life came about? And of course, yes, evolutionists' have their fantasies. Thank you.

 

[YoursTrue]

The various different ways in which it can be made sense of as a narrative don’t necessarily mean historical accuracy.

What exactly do you mean by that, please?

 

[Astrophile]

Eratosthenes (Greek head of the library at Alexandria 500BC) was even able to measure the Earth's diameter to a fairly high level of accuracy.

Eratosthenes lived from about 276 BC to about 195 BC. Alexandria was founded by Alexander the Great (356-323 BC) in about 331 BC.

 

[excreationist]

Please give ONE example of a Bible verse that contradicts the flat earth theory (more than it does the globe) or ONE example that suggests a spherical earth. It does talk about the "circle" of the earth in Isaiah 40:22 but I can explain why I think it fits a flat earth better than a sphere. See:

Refuting flat earth

Refuting flat earth teachings with horizon, time zones, southern hemisphere, constellations, circumnavigation, South Pole.

creation.com

You're absolutely right, I can't show you ONE example where the Bible mentions are spherical nature of the Planet Earth. Neither can I show ONE example of where the Bible refutes the notion that the universe was once an enormous aardvark that spewed spaghetti that was the basis for all our neighboring galaxies.

Out of these verses at least a few dozen would be relevant:

Since you can't provide ONE example do you think the authors of the Bible thought the earth was flat or spherical?

--and besides light, it says that God also created the heavens and the earth along w/ darkness and possibly other stuff I'm missing. Sounds like it's important to you that the Bible is WRONG WRONG WRONG. That's fine if that's your thing but I got to tell you that lots of other folks have found whole bunches of goodies there & imho it'd be a shame to miss out.

Yes I believe most of the Bible isn't true. When it says the sun, moon, and stars were created after the plants is that historical and true or not?

 

[Pete in Panama]

What's so important about a stories that are
not even true?
A false creation story is more important than
maybe one line of reality?

Please help me out in understanding what you're saying here. What is your opinion of works of fiction-- do you agree that many profound truths can only be expressed in fictional stories? Or were you discussing something else maybe?

...Reasonable expectation is for a far better book from a god.

Isaac Asimov (no true believer he) once pointed out that no book has been published as much and in so many languages as the Bible, and no other book has had as many other books been written about it. What I'm saying is that whether you and I see value in the Bible does not change the fact that so very many other people DO find so much value there.

Most people in the world consider that the Bible conveys considerable and profound import. OK, so that doesn't prove that the Bible is right because truth is not up for a vote. The fact does remain that we need to consider the possibility that a few of those billions of people may be familiar with our objections and that because of what they've seen they still accept the Bible as being useful.

I'm interested in what they've found.

 

[YoursTrue]

Out of these verses at least a few dozen would be relevant:

View attachment 90473

Since you can't provide ONE example do you think the authors of the Bible thought the earth was flat or spherical?

Yes I believe most of the Bible isn't true. When it says the sun, moon, and stars were created after the plants is that historical and true or not?

I have a question. How do flat earthers figure when the sky gets dark at night and we can see the moon in all its glory?

 

[Eli G]

I marvel at how people who don't study the Bible think they can teach what it says.

The Bible does not teach that the sun or the moon were created after plants... This ridiculous idea is repeated by many ignorant people, even when the details are explained to them.

The sun and the moon are space bodies created relatively contemporary with the primordial planet (Gen. 1:1). The Creator of all bodies that exist in space organized the relationship of those three bodies while adapting the planet for life on it. Again: all space bodies were created at the beginning of the Universe.

During the fourth creative day (related exclusively to the adaptation of planet Earth) the sun and the moon somehow entered into a relationship favorable to life here. That is why Gen. 1:16 does not use the same word for "to create" but a different one that literally means "to make" and is also used to express new relationships between already existing things, not new creations.

Gen. 1:14 Then God said: “Let there be luminaries in the expanse of the heavens to make a division between the day and the night, and they will serve as signs for seasons and for days and years. 15 They will serve as luminaries in the expanse of the heavens to shine upon the earth.” And it was so. 16 And God went on to make the two great luminaries, the greater luminary for dominating the day and the lesser luminary for dominating the night, and also the stars. 17 Thus God put them in the expanse of the heavens to shine upon the earth 18 and to dominate by day and by night and to make a division between the light and the darkness. Then God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.

 

[YoursTrue]

Please help me out in understanding what you're saying here. What is your opinion of works of fiction-- do you agree that many profound truths can only be expressed in fictional stories? Or were you discussing something else maybe?

Isaac Asimov (no true believer he) once pointed out that no book has been published as much and in so many languages as the Bible, and no other book has had as many other books been written about it. What I'm saying is that whether you and I see value in the Bible does not change the fact that so very many other people DO find so much value there.

Most people in the world consider that the Bible conveys considerable and profound import. OK, so that doesn't prove that the Bible is right because truth is not up for a vote. The fact does remain that we need to consider the possibility that a few of those billions of people may be familiar with our objections and that because of what they've seen they still accept the Bible as being useful.

I'm interested in what they've found.

When you say truth is not up for a vote, I think of a jury. Perhaps some think the evidence is in favor of acquittal but prejudice or anger gets in the way.

 

[excreationist]

I have a question. How do flat earthers figure when the sky gets dark at night and we can see the moon in all its glory?

Refuting flat earth

Refuting flat earth teachings with horizon, time zones, southern hemisphere, constellations, circumnavigation, South Pole.

creation.com

That "refutes" the “200+ flat earth Bible verses”. They don't give examples of Bible verses that support a spherical earth - instead they only talk about science. So science is against a flat earth - but what about the Bible?