In Denying that I see Evidence for a Creator, I Have Been Called Arrogant. The Irony!

[MSizer]

Am I, the one who admits that I have no idea how the universe came to be not the humble one in comparison to one who simply makes the claim that it was "god" yet can't back it up? Yes, for sure, the claim that one knows it is god is by far the more arrogant claim. Please feel free to challenge. Humility is admitting that one does not know.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Wait... are you saying it's not humble to assert that the entire universe was made specifically for us, and that the omnipotent, intelligent creator of the universe cares more about us than any of his other creations?

 

[Walkntune]

Am I, the one who admits that I have no idea how the universe came to be not the humble one in comparison to one who simply makes the claim that it was "god" yet can't back it up? Yes, for sure, the claim that one knows it is god is by far the more arrogant claim. Please feel free to challenge. Humility is admitting that one does not know.

It takes humility to quiet the mind and realise you are not in control. Only from there can you hear the voice of truth!

 

[angellous_evangellous]

[youtube]deebKNI-dTE[/youtube]
YouTube - Willie Nelson - Rainbow Connection

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Look, it just makes sense that in a universe which contains a million, billion, billion stars, and is 13.5 billion years old, that a species that's been around for a brief flash of time on an infinitesimal speck of dust is the most important thing in it.

 

[MSizer]

It takes humility to quiet the mind and realise you are not in control. Only from there can you hear the voice of truth!

And your evidence for such a claim is? A clear mind has nothing to do with humility. It has everything to do with good health.

 

[Revoltingest]

Am I, the one who admits that I have no idea how the universe came to be not the humble one in comparison to one who simply makes the claim that it was "god" yet can't back it up? Yes, for sure, the claim that one knows it is god is by far the more arrogant claim. Please feel free to challenge. Humility is admitting that one does not know.

Consider your arrogance from the perspective of a hypothetical believer:
1) Everyone is born with a knowledge of God.
2) The sacred book says how he spoke all of creation into existence.
3) You deny this obvious truth, one which is known to you.
4) You arrogantly rely upon your own mind, which you place above God!

This is how it has been explained to me by a fundie friend.
The finger of Willie points at you, infidel!

 

[Walkntune]

And your evidence for such a claim is? A clear mind has nothing to do with humility. It has everything to do with good health.

Seems you missed a few words in my statement. Maybe intentionally?

 

[MSizer]

Seems you missed a few words in my statement. Maybe intentionally?

Absolutely not.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

In Denying that I see Evidence for a Creator, I Have Been Called Arrogant. The Irony!

Poor abused poster. Perhaps you could direct us to this dastardly slander.

 

[Evandr]

Am I, the one who admits that I have no idea how the universe came to be not the humble one in comparison to one who simply makes the claim that it was "god" yet can't back it up? Yes, for sure, the claim that one knows it is god is by far the more arrogant claim. Please feel free to challenge. Humility is admitting that one does not know.

Please take no offence when I use the written analogy the God will not throw pearls before swine, it is simply meant to imply the the Spirit will not make manifest something to someone who is beyond feeling the still small voice and posseses such a biligerant attitude toward spiritual knowledge that they would deny it even if it were given to them.

Frankly you have no right to claim that I do not know something simply because I cannot encapsulate the reality of it in some form you are willing to swallow. The whole point of us being here is to see if we have sufficient desire, wisdome, and fortitude to find these things out for ourselves without it being force-fed to us with a spoon. A person who really wants to know the truth has but to plant the seed of true desire, do a little sincere investegating and then follow what grows that is good and eventually that person will find themselves amoung those who have good reason to believe. It is a futile prayer that says "God, tell me what I need to know but tell me nothing I don't want to hear, just confirm what I already believe and then I will believe in you" You'll wait a long time for an answer to that prayer.

 

[Evandr]

It takes humility to quiet the mind and realise you are not in control. Only from there can you hear the voice of truth!

Well said, but I might change that just a tweak to emphisize that we do have a level of control over what we choose to do else the gift of free agency could have no value.

 

[Wotan]

"The whole point of us being here is to see if we have sufficient desire, wisdome, and fortitude to find these things out for ourselves without it being force-fed to us with a spoon. "

Clearly that is YOUR opinion.

Why is anyone else required to take notice?

"A person who really wants to know the truth has but to plant the seed of true desire, do a little sincere investegating and then follow what grows that is good and eventually that person will find themselves amoung those who have good reason to believe. "

And this differs from, "When you decide to believe then you will believe' . . . how?

 

[Walkntune]

Well said, but I might change that just a tweak to emphisize that we do have a level of control over what we choose to do else the gift of free agency could have no value.

Yes , you are correct as I am talking " I" as in ego. Most of the time, letting go of control is the only way to find it!

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I don't think an Atheist is arrogant for denying that they see evidence for a creator. Maybe what we see as evidence, the Atheist doesn't see as evidence. On the other hand, you have to admit, the universe is well ordered with it's laws, etc. How is this not evidence for God?

 

[Wotan]

I don't think an Atheist is arrogant for denying that they see evidence for a creator. Maybe what we see as evidence, the Atheist doesn't see as evidence. On the other hand, you have to admit, the universe is well ordered with it's laws, etc. How is this not evidence for God?

It MIGHT be evidence of a deliberate design - might!

But arguendo conceding that how do you get to an apple and garden and a talking snake?

 

[Rainbow Mage]

It MIGHT be evidence of a deliberate design - might!

But arguendo conceding that how do you get to an apple and garden and a talking snake?

I don't know, I don't accept the book of Genesis as literal fact. I don't accept most of the OT as literal fact.

 

[Zadok]

Am I, the one who admits that I have no idea how the universe came to be not the humble one in comparison to one who simply makes the claim that it was "god" yet can't back it up? Yes, for sure, the claim that one knows it is god is by far the more arrogant claim. Please feel free to challenge. Humility is admitting that one does not know.

As an engineer and a scientist I personally agree with Einstein that G-d (referring to the creator of the universe) is an incredible mathematician. I also believe that any thing that has occurred (including the creation) could be duplicated by man if the parameters are understood and could be controlled.

From all that I have learned from science there is nothing that indicates to me that it is impossible for G-d (someone smarter than us) to have controlled the process.

Some other thoughts:

1. That G-d could be a being of higher dimension. Which would account for all the “supernatural” powers many think are associated with G-d especially when we are considering as scientific the possibility of higher dimensions as influencing our physical universe.

2. That life in our universe, especially beyond the bounds of earth is an exception and not the norm. We have yet to encounter any other life or any indication that there is life anywhere (as we know it) except here on earth. Life as a result of permutations is more unreasonable than it is as deliberate intelligent result from controlled preset conditions.

3. We really do not know that much about anything but we do know some things. The things we know indicate that the popular notions of G-d conquered up during the “Dark Ages” are likely to be incorrect – but that does not mean that an intelligence, higher than man is as unlikely.

Zadok

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

... life in our universe, especially beyond the bounds of earth is an exception and not the norm. We have yet to encounter any other life or any indication that there is life anywhere (as we know it) except here on earth.

I certainly hope that this is not an example of you as scientist -- or, for that matter, as logician.

 

[Riverwolf]

Am I, the one who admits that I have no idea how the universe came to be not the humble one in comparison to one who simply makes the claim that it was "god" yet can't back it up? Yes, for sure, the claim that one knows it is god is by far the more arrogant claim. Please feel free to challenge. Humility is admitting that one does not know.

I agree that honestly acknowledging the extent of one's own personal knowledge and opinions based on them is humble, while saying somebody is arrogant for not believing in God is like saying somebody is arrogant for not enjoying a certain movie.