In Defense of Insulting People and Ideas...

[Revoltingest]

Well, actually yes. If you do think of what you said about socialism as "right", it is best - or even all-out indispensable - to state so clearly, lest we all waste a lot of time trying to second-guess each other to no avail.

Then I'm remiss in not insulting socialists, eh? No, I say you're wrong about this. I'll have more productive conversations if I'm civil to them....I even like some of them.

Why would that even matter? Are you taking for granted that theists will think of Constitution as determinant over their beliefs?
That seems a bit reckless to me.

Reckless or not, if the think my view destructive, it's being argued they should insult me. They're failures though....cuz they're generally pretty civil towards me.

Then why would they even object?

They have their deeply held reasons. I'm sure they believe what they believe just as strongly as you & I do.

Do you see a better course of action? Which would it be?

Civil discussion of the issues & disagreements.....free of insults.

Should I defer to your expertise on spouse-beating, or just declare that you are talking weirdness? Your choice.

Defer to my expertise on spousal abuse. It is definitely a choice to strike one's spouse, & the abuser is culpable for his/her actions. Do you believe otherwise?

 

[Revoltingest]

If you want to be all formal about this, here it is: I am not taking what you say seriously, mainly because you make it so obvious that it would be a mistake to attempt to.
Now, would you have something with more content to say?

Yes....it appears that you're avoiding my point that insults won't just be against people whom you find in the wrong. To advocate insults over disagreement would mean the poo will fly in every direction. You might believe you have THE TRUTH, but so does nearly everyone else, including people who disagree with you.

Let's consider RF.....

Mission Statement
As a community of diverse cultural and religious backgrounds, our aim is to provide a civil environment, informative, respectful and welcoming where people of diverse beliefs can discuss, compare and debate religion while engaging in fellowship with one another.

Do you believe that insults are appropriate for RF's mission?

 

[LuisDantas]

Either you are not understanding me, or failing to come across clearly, or just fond of defying logical expression.

 

[Revoltingest]

Either you are not understanding me, or failing to come across clearly, or just fond of defying logical expression.

From your artful list of options, I'll pick the underlined portion. To state it more simply....
1) To insult someone is a conscious choice, one which can be avoided.
2) To advocate insults over strong disagreement is to invite a battle royale which subverts RF's stated mission.

 

[LuisDantas]

Whatever. Be happy.

 

[Revoltingest]

Whatever. Be happy.

Always!
Well, generally.

 

[LuisDantas]

Looking forward for a more productive exchange in the future. They can't all be winners.

 

[icehorse]

From your artful list of options, I'll pick the underlined portion. To state it more simply....
1) To insult someone is a conscious choice, one which can be avoided.
2) To advocate insults over strong disagreement is to invite a battle royale which subverts RF's stated mission.

Does satire count as insult?

 

[oldbadger]

We should check that possibility up close, but I happen to think right now that it is probably needed to some degree.

It sure seems to be craved badly enough...

Hi Luis......
The concept of a class of kids, one being different through race, religion, creed, colour or nationality, and the teacher saying to all......
'Can you see Peter in the corner?'
'Yes Miss'
'What do we know about Peter, everybody?'
'His Mummy and Daddy belong to the Studdhill Moonlight Frollickers, Miss!'
'And what do your Mummies and Daddies say about Peter's Family?'
'Evil Miss..... and all going to Hell, Miss, 'Cos they're all pagans Miss!'
'Shall we draw some pictures?'
'Yes Miss!'

........ this is how I see our Society, lead and governed by people who went to places like Oxford, Cambridge and Durham Universities! Children, with children's playground games.

And it causes not only contention, but conflict. Just like when Peter, after continued taunts and harassment, finally punches another kid very hard in the mouth, and then, Oh God...... what a fuss then!

 

[LuisDantas]

What does cause the conflict, oldbadger? The existence of those silly beliefs, or their expression?

Isn't expressing them a necessary part of the healing?

 

[Robert.Evans]

Insulting a horrible, destructive behavior or belief is absolutely correct.

Never correct to insult. Pointing out what is wrong is a different matter altogether. I assume you speak of terrorists though you might well mean Islam or even Religion.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Last night I listened to a Hitchens speech from about 8 years ago. At one point, in response to a "West basher" he said: "We do not create Jihad by resisting it."

That is a lame excuse which is what I would expect from him. He wants the playing field to be levelled in favour of him.

 

[Robert.Evans]

No, it's not. But i agree with your basic sentiment. Violent action can be the consequence of various belief types, not just religion.

You are saying that religion is not about believe in God? I think you will find it is. It is about joining with the divine.

religion
rɪˈlɪdʒ(ə)n/
noun

1. the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.

Where as politics is about:

politics
ˈpɒlɪtɪks/
noun

1. 1.
   the activities associated with the governance of a country or area, especially the debate between parties having power.

Which is therefore to do with rule and enforcing what you think that political agenda is about. Religion is just the foundation just as atheism could be.

And government is about:

government
ˈɡʌv(ə)nˌm(ə)nt,ˈɡʌvəm(ə)nt/
noun
1.
the group of people with the authority to govern a country or state; a particular ministry in office.

So if one thinks one's ideas are right, they try to rule and govern, and it doesn't matter what or where the ideology comes from.

 

[Robert.Evans]

And who will be the judge of what is an insult?

Oh, I don't know....hmmm, someone with a brain perhaps. What a lame response. philosophy gone mad.

 

[Robert.Evans]

I am learning not to waste many words with you.

You bring joy into my life with those words.
That is just the way that the human race can move forward. Perhaps you should be in charge of sorting out the Middle East. What a great attitude.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Again, it is not my fault that you insist on misrepresentation.

Perhaps you are getting this post mixed up with another. His words seem right and clear to me.

 

[Robert.Evans]

If you want to be all formal about this, here it is: I am not taking what you say seriously, mainly because you make it so obvious that it would be a mistake to attempt to.

Now, would you have something with more content to say?

So you are trolling then. I thought your answers were somewhat strained to say the least.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Yes....it appears that you're avoiding my point that insults won't just be against people whom you find in the wrong. To advocate insults over disagreement would mean the poo will fly in every direction. You might believe you have THE TRUTH, but so does nearly everyone else, including people who disagree with you.

Let's consider RF.....

Do you believe that insults are appropriate for RF's mission?

''avoiding'' he also says he is not taking you seriously. He is a trolling or perhaps poe.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Looking forward for a more productive exchange in the future. They can't all be winners.

If had had a conversation with him, you might have. His words were plain and yours down right misleading and strained.

 

[oldbadger]

Does satire count as insult?

Hi....
Does speech count as insult? Art? Films? Songs?
Answer:- Only when they upset, harass, taunt, demean, put-down.
OK? It's not the satyr, it's the content within the satyr.