I'm an atheist. Ask me anything.

[Autodidact]

You said "I define God as a being who does not exist." (That's from memory, so forgive me if I didn't get the phrasing precisely right.) By that definition, everyone is atheist.

Not quite. I think a god is a spiritual being, one without a material body--a being who cannot be perceived with our senses. And what I'm saying is that for me, I think "being subject to being perceived" and "existing" are functionally equivalent. If something "exists" in some sense, but has no measurable effect, cannot be perceived with any sense, and has no measurable effect that can be perceived with any sense, then regardless of whether it may "exist" in some sense, it can be treated as non-existent for all intents and purposes.

It seemed to me that the very definition of a god is a being that cannot be perceived with any sense. So we need to look for some measurable effect. And there aren't any. So that's why I'm a strong atheist, and why I don't consider that a faith position.

How would you define the word "god?" Not, who or what do you think God is, but how do you define that word to include all known gods, Krishna, Zeus, Changing Woman, etc?

Point of clarification: is your strong atheism limited to the Abrahamic God? Because none of this addresses alternative theologies.

I'm trying to address the god-concept by definition. People have a tendency to be a bit vague on that definition.

It doesn't address pantheism, or really is almost equivalent to it. I haven't thought about Panentheism.

I agree with Victor Stenger and Richard Dawkins that YWHW/Allah is subject to scientific investigation, (depending on what people even mean by that, but the traditional version), and can be eliminated based on empirical evidence. So I guess that's strong atheism as well, since it's an affirmative statement that God does not exist.

Doesn't ring a bell.

And may you be preserved from it; it's the apologetics of annoyance.

 

[aymen amir]

Yes, I'm sure you believe all that, and you believe that Allah exists and told Muhammed that in the qur'an, but since you have no rational justification for that, what relevance does it have to this thread? Basically you're confirming what I'm saying.

Let me ask you some questions: Where were you born? When did your family begin indoctrinating you into Islam? What other religions did you study, before accepting the evidence for Islam? What happens if you leave Islam?

i was born in Egypt .
actually i was born a Muslim so for me ISLAM is the only region without any doubts and is the only religion am interested in studying

do you mean what's the punishment for leaving ISLAM ?

 

[Autodidact]

i was born in Egypt .
actually i was born a Muslim so for me ISLAM is the only region without any doubts and is the only religion am interested in studying

do you mean what's the punishment for leaving ISLAM ?

Is it true that since the time you were a child, your parents taught you Islam, that this is the only religion you have ever studied, and that your family and community indoctrinated you into this belief system long before you learned to think critically?

Have you never studied the world's religions and tried to independently determine which was the most correct and wise? You've only swallowed the propaganda you were fed as a child?

If you had been born into a Mormon family in Salt Lake City, what religion do you think you would be today?

I mean if you decided today that Islam is false, that you don't believe in God, what would the actual consequences be for you? What would happen to you?

 

[aymen amir]

Is it true that since the time you were a child, your parents taught you Islam, that this is the only religion you have ever studied, and that your family and community indoctrinated you into this belief system long before you learned to think critically?

Have you never studied the world's religions and tried to independently determine which was the most correct and wise? You've only swallowed the propaganda you were fed as a child?

If you had been born into a Mormon family in Salt Lake City, what religion do you think you would be today?

I mean if you decided today that Islam is false, that you don't believe in God, what would the actual consequences be for you? What would happen to you?

i lived all my child hood in non Muslim countries so i wouldn't say that the community indoctrinated me to Islam ... and about my family they never forced me to learn about Islam or even pray i didn't really care about religion and all these thing until a few years back but i can't say i was an Atheist because for me THE non existence of GOD was't an option cause i hardly thought about it , I studied ISLAM and a little about Christians and i felt comfortable with Islam and it made sense to me ..so i stuck with it

and even now when i try to think critically it leads me no were other than to GOD

 

[MSizer]

i was born in Egypt .
actually i was born a Muslim so for me ISLAM is the only region without any doubts and is the only religion am interested in studying

do you mean what's the punishment for leaving ISLAM ?

You realize that's exactly the same as if I were to say "I only speak english and french, so I know they're the best languages".

 

[aymen amir]

You realize that's exactly the same as if I were to say "I only speak english and french, so I know they're the best languages".

i have general ideas about other religions and they don't make sense to me

 

[Autodidact]

i lived all my child hood in non Muslim countries so i wouldn't say that the community indoctrinated me to Islam ... and about my family they never forced me to learn about Islam or even pray i didn't really care about religion and all these thing until a few years back but i can't say i was an Atheist because for me THE non existence of GOD was't an option cause i hardly thought about it , I studied ISLAM and a little about Christians and i felt comfortable with Islam and it made sense to me ..so i stuck with it

and even now when i try to think critically it leads me no were other than to GOD

So had you grown up in Salt Lake City in a Mormon family, what religion do you think you would be today?

 

[aymen amir]

So had you grown up in Salt Lake City in a Mormon family, what religion do you think you would be today?

ISLAM WITHOUT ANY DOUBT because if you study Islam you will know that it is in fact a religion of truth
sorry didn't mean to preach :sorry1:

 

[Autodidact]

i have general ideas about other religions and they don't make sense to me

Tell me what you know about Zoroastrianism, Buddhism, or LDS, and why they make less sense than Islam.

 

[Autodidact]

ISLAM WITHOUT ANY DOUBT because if you study Islam you will know that it is in fact a religion of truth
sorry didn't mean to preach :sorry1:

Let me get this. What you're saying is that:
You were born into a Muslim family, and raised Muslim.
You are a Muslim today.
Had you been born into a Mormon family, and raised Mormon, you would be Muslim today? Is that right?

Do you have any idea what percentage of people born to Mormon families in Salt Lake City are Muslims as adults?

 

[aymen amir]

Let me get this. What you're saying is that:
You were born into a Muslim family, and raised Muslim.
You are a Muslim today.
Had you been born into a Mormon family, and raised Mormon, you would be Muslim today? Is that right?

Do you have any idea what percentage of people born to Mormon families in Salt Lake City are Muslims as adults?

IF i wasn't Muslim and learned about Islam i think i would convert to Islam. yet again i don't know how my mentality would have been

no i don't know

 

[Autodidact]

IF i wasn't Muslim and learned about Islam i think i would convert to Islam. yet again i don't know how my mentality would have been

Because you're such an unusual person, such a critical thinker, so much more skeptical and insightful than the millions of Mormons that grew up in Salt Lake City, that unlike them you would not only overcome your childhood indoctrination into the LDS faith, but independently realize that Islam is the one true religion. That's really what you believe?

And, further, the fact that since you were a small child, without the ability to reason independently, the people you most trusted told you over and over that Islam is the only true religion, and the noble qur'an without error, and the fact that you believe those things as an adult, while very few people who were not told that as a child believe that, are completely coincidental, and have nothing to do with each other.

Those are two things you would like us to believe?

no i don't know

Probably less than 1%.

The single biggest predictor of someone's adult religion is what religion they were raised in as a child.

If the only thing I knew about you is your parent's religion, I can predict your religion with pretty good accuracy.

 

[aymen amir]

what am suppose to answer to this

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

what am suppose to answer to this

The reason why all those other people who follow the religion of their upbringing are sheep following false beliefs, but you, despite following the religion of your upbringing as well, are different: you came to your conclusion rationally and critically, and would have come to the same conclusion regardless of your upbringing.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

what am suppose to answer to this

You ask yourself the wrong question, Aymen. You should be asking yourself why you have accepted Islam at face value, without truly challenging your belief system.

If you look into other belief systems, with an open mind, and still believe at the end of the day that Islam is correct for you, then you have done yourself a service.

On the other hand, if you simply embrace Islam and sing its praises without critically examing what it is, and how you got there, then you do yourself (and any kids that you may have) a huge disservice.

 

[MSizer]

Nobody who takes the abrahamic faiths as true has examined them critically.

 

[Herr Heinrich]

Why? You employ similar logic (or at least I hope you do):

- your computer was created by people
- your phone was created by people
- your car was created by people
- the universe was not created by people

Actually you could probably even say the universe is created by people. We organize our perceptions of it and that is the universe. The universe as we see it does not exist to other creatures. It is different. So from that you could even say people are god. So there is no god cause we are all god.

 

[Autodidact]

what am suppose to answer to this

Either yes, you expect us to believe that, or no, you don't. Does what I said sound reasonable and correct to you?

 

[Autodidact]

Don't worry - it wasn't meant to be a trap.

Which came first for you? Did you first self-identify as a skeptic and then as an atheist, or the other way around? Did one have anything to do with the other?

This is basically my whole story; you've really hit the nail on the head. Skeptic => freethinker => atheist. Once I started thinking skeptically, which is to say scientifically, I decided to try that approach in general. It seemed to me I should be willing to question anything. So I must be a free-thinker, which I thought meant someone who is willing to question anything. I didn't even know it commonly is applied to atheists. So when I started googling "free thought" and the like, I stumbled across atheism. So I asked myself whether I could question the existence of God. Well, that's filed under "anything," so I did. Then the thought process I've talked about in my responses to Storm, and voila, Bob's your uncle, bing bang boom...atheist!

ETA: So I guess science does corrupt faith! :devil:

 

[Autodidact]

what am suppose to answer to this

Try it this way. You meet an adult Mormon who tries to tell you that LDS is the only religion that makes sense. He grew up in Salt Lake City in a Mormon family. You ask him the questions I asked you, about his upbringing and so forth. If he gave your answers, would you accept that? That had he been born in Peshawar and somehow heard about LDS, he would instantly convert, because it's the only religion that makes sense, althoug he really hasn't studied any other religions?