If you disbelieve in God, why do you disbelieve in Him?

[AmbiguousGuy]

The God of the Torah does not identify Himself as a family of leprechauns living under my desk, so it isn't a true parallel.

OK. Why can we choose to believe in you God but not choose to believe in leprechauns?

 

[The Bullfrog]

Greetings...I just would like to ask this because I see alot of atheism and I would like to learn why someone would choose to be atheistic.

Thank you very much for all answers.

I don't understand your thread. You say that you want to learn but it seems rather that you just want to criticize. From what I have observed you do not appear to want to learn why someone is an atheist. You only seem to want to tell them they are wrong and you ignore what they say about themselves and tell them you know better who they are than they do.

So is this really a thread for you to learn or is it a thread for you to criticize atheist? I'll need you to clarify that point before I answer your question.

 

[Iti oj]

I don't understand your thread. You say that you want to learn but it seems rather that you just want to criticize. From what I have observed you do not appear to want to learn why someone is an atheist. You only seem to want to tell them they are wrong and you ignore what they say about themselves and tell them you know better who they are than they do.

So is this really a thread for you to learn or is it a thread for you to criticize atheist? I'll need you to clarify that point before I answer your question.

Really because I have not noticed him partcipating in this thread.

 

[johnhanks]

Thanks for answering, johnhanks.

Lol I said nothing about perversion. Perhaps you have a guilty conscience.

And perhaps you are confusing the word perverse with the word perverted. Here's some help.

I see belief in a God as natural, and that a lack of connection to the True God makes some people behave unnaturally.

Thousands of gods have been invented by humankind. Imagined "connections" to many of them have made people behave in quite bizarre ways. How do we know which ones connected with the True God?

 

[Ablaze]

"Disbelieve" doesn't quite capture it. "Lacking in belief" would be more accurate. Simply because there's nothing to suggest there is a God or that believing in a God is necessary to living a fulfilling life.

 

[nilsz]

Thanks for answering, nilsz.

What if God is a human being ("spirit" energizing flesh and blood,) as the Bible describes Him in Genesis 18:1-5?

I do not believe in the creation story of Genesis; I believe that we are here out spontaneity and natural selection. If a God was behind this process, then he went about creating humans in his own image in a very roundabout way, which only bore fruits after billions of years, confined to an tiny portion of his overwhelmingly barren universe.

While my conviction does bring some existential anxiety, it relieves me of worrying about the judgement of a rather backwards God-person. I need no God to tell me what is right or wrong, and I require no promise of eternal life to act morally.

 

[Yahyaa Waahid]

Since you can do it...
Let's try an experiment:

Disbelieve in god's existence and tell me how it feels. How your perception of the world and life changes.

You can switch back after you write your post.

For me to do that would be evil on my part. God (by Whom I mean the God of the Torah) is not a game for people to play with.

Peace.
Yahyaa Waahid

 

[Yahyaa Waahid]

They can see things that they believe are God working in their lives, but there is no actual evidence that it is actually God. Humans like to see patterns and attribute things to intelligent agency, even when there is no pattern or intelligent agency.

Well, as I said to someone else, perhaps the Abrahamic God reserves proof of His existence for only those who believe in Him. It's proof for me because I can feel He Whom I worship working in me. But maybe that is just reserved for the believers.

Sure. It's also possible Zeus closed my eyes because he doesn't like my face. It's also possible that an invisible dragon is about to breathe fire on me. I don't put much stock in any of these equally plausible possibilities, though.

Well you are just pulling things out of the air here and comparing them to a defined Being who is not like the things which you are comparing Him to.

Peace.
Yahyaa Waahid

 

[The Bullfrog]

For me to do that would be evil on my part. God (by Whom I mean the God of the Torah) is not a game for people to play with.

Peace.
Yahyaa Waahid

So, if I gather this correctly you believe that atheism is evil and unnatural?

 

[Yahyaa Waahid]

Then you are wrong.

Lol. Peace, Sir.

 

[Yahyaa Waahid]

OK. Why can we choose to believe in you God but not choose to believe in leprechauns?

Well, you may have mis-worded your question but we are free to believe or disbelieve in whatever we choose to. The Abrahamic God has given us freedom of choice to do as we like.

The answer to the question you might have been trying to ask is because I can feel the Spirit of God in me and in other people. As I said to someone else, maybe the Abrahamic God reserves proof of His existence for those who believe in Him.

Peace.
Yahyaa Waahid

 

[Yahyaa Waahid]

I don't understand your thread. You say that you want to learn but it seems rather that you just want to criticize. From what I have observed you do not appear to want to learn why someone is an atheist. You only seem to want to tell them they are wrong and you ignore what they say about themselves and tell them you know better who they are than they do.

So is this really a thread for you to learn or is it a thread for you to criticize atheist? I'll need you to clarify that point before I answer your question.

Well, learning is one of my motives but after all this is a debate forum.

Peace.
Yahyaa Waahid

 

[Poeticus]

Well, learning is one of my motives but after all this is a debate forum.

But, you aren't debating, though...

 

[The Bullfrog]

Well, learning is one of my motives but after all this is a debate forum.

Peace.
Yahyaa Waahid

It is a debate forum, as such there is no need to hide your intent. It is acceptable to call atheist to defend their position. However it should be made clear that is what you are doing in the OP.

 

[Sees]

Well, as I said to someone else, perhaps the Abrahamic God reserves proof of His existence for only those who believe in Him. It's proof for me because I can feel He Whom I worship working in me. But maybe that is just reserved for the believers.

The thing is, why believe in this god before proof of his existence? The belief and proof mechanism here is backwards in comparison to how mankind has obtained knowledge over the years. Outside of certain key power players on the course of history pushing the Abrahamic god, what makes this one out of the many the right one to declare as The One?

Does that one not reflect man's ethical and moral level of the culture and time like the others? Have you compared the stories and laws to the early neighbors of that area and seen a sign of superiority and greater wisdom or knowledge?

 

[Magic Man]

Well, as I said to someone else, perhaps the Abrahamic God reserves proof of His existence for only those who believe in Him. It's proof for me because I can feel He Whom I worship working in me. But maybe that is just reserved for the believers.

1) This explanation doesn't work because, as I said, I was a believer for quite a few years. If this was only reserved for believers, I wouldn't be an atheist now.

2) As I said, believers do see things they believer are proof of God, but those things aren't actually proof or evidence of God.

Well you are just pulling things out of the air here and comparing them to a defined Being who is not like the things which you are comparing Him to.

Peace.
Yahyaa Waahid

You're right that I just pulled things out of the air. That's the entire point. You asked whether something was possible. I said it was, just like those other random things are possible, but none of them are at all plausible.

 

[Yahyaa Waahid]

And perhaps you are confusing the word perverse with the word perverted. Here's some help.
Thousands of gods have been invented by humankind. Perceived "connections" to many of them have made people behave in quite bizarre ways. How do we know which ones connected with the True God?

Well the True God is the God who really rules the universe. With time, we can recognize who is of the True God and who is not.

And I know what "pervert" and "perverse" means, lol.

Peace.
Yahyaa Waahid

 

[Yahyaa Waahid]

I do not believe in the creation story of Genesis; I believe that we are here out spontaneity and natural selection. If a God was behind this process, then he went about creating humans in his own image in a very roundabout way, which only bore fruits after billions of years, confined to an tiny portion of his overwhelmingly barren universe.

While my conviction does bring some existential anxiety, it relieves me of worrying about the judgement of a rather backwards God-person. I need no God to tell me what is right or wrong, and I require no promise of eternal life to act morally.

Well I can say that false doctrines have led people to disbelieve. I would recommend reading the Torah for your self. For example, Gen. 18:1-5 says that God is a Human Being ("spirit" energizing flesh & blood) while most Judeo-Christian doctrine does not present the God of the Bible as a Human Being ("spirit" energizing flesh & blood.)

Peace.
Yahyaa Waahid

 

[Yahyaa Waahid]

So, if I gather this correctly you believe that atheism is evil and unnatural?

No, you did not gather correctly. To disbelieve in God would be evil for me. For others, it might just be where life has them.

And the word "unnatural" has a connotation that I don't mean. I would say atheism goes against human nature.

Have to go. Be back, God-Willing, later tonight.

Peace.
Yahyaa Waahid

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

Well, you may have mis-worded your question but we are free to believe or disbelieve in whatever we choose to. The Abrahamic God has given us freedom of choice to do as we like.

But you're changing the question. I didn't ask if we are 'free to' believe or disbelieve. I asked why it is possible for me to suddenly choose belief in your God but not possible for you to suddenly choose belief in leprechauns.

Can you explain that?

As I said to someone else, maybe the Abrahamic God reserves proof of His existence for those who believe in Him.

OK. Maybe leprechauns are the same. They reserve proof of their existence for those who believe in them. It sounds backwards to me, though. Usually I see the evidence of a thing before I believe in that thing. The evidence is what causes me to believe.

For you, it seems that belief causes you to see evidence.

You're aware that that is a description of delusion, yes? Does that bother or worry you at all?