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If the Age of the Earth is 6000 Years...

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Inspired by this thread started by roli, I thought it would be interesting to consider how things would be if the Earth were actually 6000 years old.

I'm going to show my bias for geology over biology here, but everyone else is free to add points as they see fit.

If the Earth were actually 6000 years old, I can think of a few big things that would be different:

Compasses would flip direction every 30 years on average

The crystal structure of the rocks in the sea floor show about 200 geomagnetic reversals, or instances when the poles flipped: south became north and north became south.

Modern science says that the sea floor is 200 million years old at its oldest (since it is constantly welling up from mid-ocean spreading ridges, sliding across and subducting under continental plates). If, as a lower limit, we assume that the oldest section of sea floor now is as old as the Earth (a baseless assumption, but just for illustrative purposes) and that the Earth is 6000 years old, then those 200 reversals would happen every 6000/200 or 30 years on average.

Since the discovery of the magnetic compass, we would have observed countless times that our compasses spontaneously pointed opposite to their regular direction.

Humans would have witnessed Pangaea form and separate

If we look at soils and fossils along the Atlantic coast in Europe, Africa and the Americas, we notice something odd: there are slivers of land in Europe and Africa that match the Americas (but nowhere else in their own continents) and slivers of land in the Americas that match Europe and Africa (but nowhere else in their own continents). There is very strong evidence that the Americas started separate from Europe and Africa, then came together to form the supercontinent "Pangaea", and then split apart again.

This process may have happened multiple times (and in fact, there is evidence to suggest that it did), but assuming that it happened even once in the past 6000 years, humans would have witnessed the continents come together and then separate. We would be able to read historical accounts of people walking from England to New England, or from Africa to Brazil.

There would be no oil

The process by which organic matter turns to oil takes millenia. In 6000 years, no oil would have formed.




So... have we seen these bits of evidence for a young Earth? Anyone have others to add? Anyone have anything to refute these points?
 

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
Picky, picky. You know what I mean...

... unless you have an operational corn oil well that you want to tell us about.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it takes millions of years to form oil but scientific experiments prove it doesn't.

Actually olive oil goes for about $40 a gallon. Much more profitable.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it takes millions of years to form oil but scientific experiments prove it doesn't.
Which scientific experiments?

And for clarification's sake, let's define "oil" as "crude oil, of the type which is normally found underground, can be removed by drilling and wells, and can be refined as crude oil normally is".
 

stone

Reality checker
I see that no one has actually answered Penguins excellent thread with anything other than some banter about corn oil. Somehow i dont think anyone actually will either.)(
 

Super Universe

Defender of God
Inspired by this thread started by roli, I thought it would be interesting to consider how things would be if the Earth were actually 6000 years old.

I'm going to show my bias for geology over biology here, but everyone else is free to add points as they see fit.

If the Earth were actually 6000 years old, I can think of a few big things that would be different:

Compasses would flip direction every 30 years on average

The crystal structure of the rocks in the sea floor show about 200 geomagnetic reversals, or instances when the poles flipped: south became north and north became south.

Modern science says that the sea floor is 200 million years old at its oldest (since it is constantly welling up from mid-ocean spreading ridges, sliding across and subducting under continental plates). If, as a lower limit, we assume that the oldest section of sea floor now is as old as the Earth (a baseless assumption, but just for illustrative purposes) and that the Earth is 6000 years old, then those 200 reversals would happen every 6000/200 or 30 years on average.

Since the discovery of the magnetic compass, we would have observed countless times that our compasses spontaneously pointed opposite to their regular direction.

Humans would have witnessed Pangaea form and separate

If we look at soils and fossils along the Atlantic coast in Europe, Africa and the Americas, we notice something odd: there are slivers of land in Europe and Africa that match the Americas (but nowhere else in their own continents) and slivers of land in the Americas that match Europe and Africa (but nowhere else in their own continents). There is very strong evidence that the Americas started separate from Europe and Africa, then came together to form the supercontinent "Pangaea", and then split apart again.

This process may have happened multiple times (and in fact, there is evidence to suggest that it did), but assuming that it happened even once in the past 6000 years, humans would have witnessed the continents come together and then separate. We would be able to read historical accounts of people walking from England to New England, or from Africa to Brazil.

There would be no oil

The process by which organic matter turns to oil takes millenia. In 6000 years, no oil would have formed.




So... have we seen these bits of evidence for a young Earth? Anyone have others to add? Anyone have anything to refute these points?

I agree with you and I think you post excellant points.

However, you do assume that the separation of tectonic plates happens at a constant and unchanging rate. As for crude oil, they don't really know what causes it to form.
 

Orthodox

Born again apostate
Doh! I hoped that there might actually be some people that tried to answer this question properly 9-10ths!

The problems with Young Earth Creationism (YEC) are so manifestly insurmountable that I doubt you'll get someone to take the bait on this thread :( Most YECS don't know much about science and would be likely to avoid this type of forum (and thread) like the plague. I was once a YEC (much to my present shame) and I didn't avoid this type of thread... and look what happened to me.. now I'm an atheist. Come to think of it, it is almost like natural selection isn't it? RF exerts evolutionary pressure on its' member population that favours those with the beliefs that hold up best to scrutiny - meaning that the proportion of those members who are atheists/agnostics should be markedly higher than would be expected if the member list were an accurate cross section of society. Lol.

Pangaea is just a theory...

Ok, I'm hoping that was just a joke. If not go here and read definition number one. The argument that ToE or Pangaea or whatever is "just a theory" is so poor it is almost beyond words.
 

Orthodox

Born again apostate

However, you do assume that the separation of tectonic plates happens at a constant and unchanging rate.

There are good reasons to assume relatively constant and unchanging rates of separation. Any faster and the earth would have become to hostile to support life. In particular the idea some YECs support about an incredibly rapid separation during "the flood" is COMPLETELY out of the question.

As for crude oil, they don't really know what causes it to form.

Pressure and heat over a long time. See here.
 

Zeno

Member
Additionally, the speed of light would have been faster a few thousand years ago. We are just now observing the light from stars that are millions of light-years away from us. So unless the universe was in an earth-lacking state for millions upon millions of years before God decided to create our earth, light has an awful lot of explaining to do.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
However, you do assume that the separation of tectonic plates happens at a constant and unchanging rate.
Not necessarily; in fact, I've had to not assume that to allow for the possibility of Pangea forming and splitting in 6000 years.

You don't have to assume a constant and unchanging rate of plate movement to discount the idea of a 6000-year-old Earth, you just have to recognize that it would require an insanely quick rate to make things fit the young age. The Atlantic Ocean is 2848 km across at its narrowest point. Just traversing that distance in 6000 years would require an average movement rate of 0.47 km per year. Even if you assume that Africa and South America were both moving away from each other (which isn't really the case, but just for illustration), each continent would still have to cover the distance of more than four football fields every year, on average. This is impossible by any mechanism that exists on Earth. Even if you assume a small (or even large) variation in the rate of plate movement, this magnitude of movement is well outside the realm of possibility, if not well outside the realm of sanity.

Pangaea is just a theory...
Okay, I'll go with it... what's your alternate explanation for the thin slivers of soil and fossils along either side of the Atlantic Ocean that closely match the soils and fossils on the other side of the ocean, but match nothing on their own continent?
 

kmkemp

Active Member
I love when you ask for an alternate theory as if coincidence is not enough. Even if I didn't think coincidence could cover it, the lack of an alternate theory makes pangaea a reality??? You mean like our lack of an alternate explanation (outside of conjecture) for our notion of self doesn't point to a supreme creator? I'm sure there are many alternate explanations, but I haven't studied any of this, so google them.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I love when you ask for an alternate theory as if coincidence is not enough. Even if I didn't think coincidence could cover it, the lack of an alternate theory makes pangaea a reality???

No, the physical evidence we have indicates that North and South America were once in contact with Europe and Africa. Our knowledge of plate tectonics (which has a fair bit of support in the form of physical evidence itself) shows us a mechanism by which this movement would have been possible.

You mean like our lack of an alternate explanation (outside of conjecture) for our notion of self doesn't point to a supreme creator? I'm sure there are many alternate explanations, but I haven't studied any of this, so google them.
I don't know of any alternate explanations myself besides "God did it".

I really can't understand how strong evidence for one explanation and a lack of evidence for anything else can be seen as at all relevant to a supreme creator, and I can't see how that would be relevant to the topic at hand anyhow, unless you plan on claiming that God is somehow incapable of creating a world that would last for more than a few thousand years... but that claim would require a fair bit of support on your part.

Now... just to clear things up for everyone:

The statement "the Earth is old" is not equivalent to the statement "there is no God".
 

kmkemp

Active Member
No, the physical evidence we have indicates that North and South America were once in contact with Europe and Africa. Our knowledge of plate tectonics (which has a fair bit of support in the form of physical evidence itself) shows us a mechanism by which this movement would have been possible.


I don't know of any alternate explanations myself besides "God did it".

I really can't understand how strong evidence for one explanation and a lack of evidence for anything else can be seen as at all relevant to a supreme creator, and I can't see how that would be relevant to the topic at hand anyhow, unless you plan on claiming that God is somehow incapable of creating a world that would last for more than a few thousand years... but that claim would require a fair bit of support on your part.

Now... just to clear things up for everyone:

The statement "the Earth is old" is not equivalent to the statement "there is no God".

Hmmm, in your previous post, you said...

"Okay, I'll go with it... what's your alternate explanation for the thin slivers of soil and fossils along either side of the Atlantic Ocean that closely match the soils and fossils on the other side of the ocean, but match nothing on their own continent?"

So, I'll go with it. What's your alternate explanation for our notion of the self?
 

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
if the earth were only 6000 years old... man you could set your clock by them ice ages... Glaciers would race accross the landsape.

The magnetic pole would be zooming around I'd be in Russia by now!
Not to mention the earth wobbles...

wa:do
 

kmkemp

Active Member
I don't believe the Earth is young and I still believe in God. Where do you get this stuff from?
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I don't believe the Earth is young and I still believe in God. Where do you get this stuff from?
From your question, it seemed like you were setting things up for an argument that an old Earth (BTW - by "old", I mean much, much, older than the normal Creationist estimates... at least hundreds of millions, if not billions of years old) would imply that God could not be the source for "our notion of self". As I see it, if you were going to relate this to the subject at hand at all, this would have two implicit claims:

- that an old Earth implies no God
- that no God implies no source for "our notion of self"

Was I incorrect?

If I was mistaken, how does "our notion of self" relate to the age of the planet?
 
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