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If nobody accused

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Not the 'prophets' that were mentioned.
Most of the major religions have "prophets" of one type or another.

And, as I said, the principle of absolution from our sins by one mediator is unique to the Christian Faith.
You're probably correct, but each religion also is unique one way or the other even though there are major similarities.

I'm a Christian, but I simply don't believe we have a theistic monopoly nor that we alone teach love of God(s) and compassion for others.
 

DNB

Christian
You are of course free to believe what you do.
I have no reason to say "you believe wrong", just because I dont follow Jesus. If Jesus giving you what you seek that is very good. But not every human being will believe the way you or I do, othets may be Buddhists, Hindu, Jewish, or any other religions.
Of course, but, they all cannot be unequivocal truth, that's all I'm trying to say - therefore, it's incumbent upon the enlightened, whoever they may be, to justify their beliefs and correct others.
 

DNB

Christian
Exactly what they said to those who claimed Jesus was the Messiah. That they were deluded.

I’ve witnessed it and know it to be true. Again, 2 billion Christians sadly have missed the Second Coming as it has already occurred. One cannot claim to believe in Jesus by rejecting Him when He returned.
Again, deluded.
If Christ returned, then this current cesspool that we live in called the earth, is an incredible indictment against Jesus' mission and potency.
Like I said, deluded!
 

DNB

Christian
No, Jesus never said that He was going to return to this world, not even once in the entire New Testament.
Rather, Jesus said that His work was finished here and He was no longer in the world.


John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.


Jesus gave the signs of when we will see the Son of man coming in the clouds, but He was not referring to Himself.

Who is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven?
Jesus is the son of man. And he will return to earth to gather his saints.

Matthew 24:25–28
25There will be signs in the sun and moon and stars, and on the earth dismay among the nations, bewildered by the roaring of the sea and the surging of the waves. 26Men will faint from fear and anxiety over what is coming upon the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.b 28When these things begin to happen, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.”

Luke 21:24–27)

24But in those days, after that tribulation:
‘The sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
25the stars will fall from the sky,
and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’c
26At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.d 27And He will send out the angels to gather His elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17
15By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.
 

DNB

Christian
Most of the major religions have "prophets" of one type or another.

You're probably correct, but each religion also is unique one way or the other even though there are major similarities.

I'm a Christian, but I simply don't believe we have a theistic monopoly nor that we alone teach love of God(s) and compassion for others.
But, we are not critiquing the common denominator between the majority of faiths. If this was all that mattered, then I'm a fool to segregate myself even further by calling myself a Christian.
Christ died an unjustified and excruciating death, are you prepared to dismiss that as superfluous act that is not a requisite to receive God's approbation? That is, that God accepts those who either deny Jesus' death, or the efficacy of it? Why did Jesus pray that God remove the cup of sufferance from him, if it wasn't imperative in the first place that he fulfill it, or that there are alternative ways to offer man redemption i.e. Buddha, Mohammed, Zoroaster, Siddhartha, etc...?

I'm sorry, you are seriously compromising your faith, and insulting God's integrity and fortitude - nothing that He implements and legislates will fall by the wayside.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Jesus is the son of man. And he will return to earth to gather his saints.
You are free to believe that because you have free will.
Baha'is have their beliefs and Christians have their beliefs. I do not like to argue over this.
However, it is notable that the Bible does not support the Christian belief that the same man Jesus will return to earth.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
Again, deluded.
If Christ returned, then this current cesspool that we live in called the earth, is an incredible indictment against Jesus' mission and potency.
Like I said, deluded!

When we hear of Christ’s return we should rejoice not denounce those bringing the Glad Tidings.
 

Truthseeker

Non-debating member when I can help myself
Three weeks too many :( but it seems to be slowing down. There are only a few arrogant atheists who can't find anything better to do but criticize me. I don't wonder why they are compelled to do that. I have to be wrong in their minds so that can believe they are right.
That's right, in my opinion. You don't have to answer back, you know. They have exposed themselves for what they are already.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
But, we are not critiquing the common denominator between the majority of faiths. If this was all that mattered, then I'm a fool to segregate myself even further by calling myself a Christian.
Christ died an unjustified and excruciating death, are you prepared to dismiss that as superfluous act that is not a requisite to receive God's approbation? That is, that God accepts those who either deny Jesus' death, or the efficacy of it? Why did Jesus pray that God remove the cup of sufferance from him, if it wasn't imperative in the first place that he fulfill it, or that there are alternative ways to offer man redemption i.e. Buddha, Mohammed, Zoroaster, Siddhartha, etc...?

I'm sorry, you are seriously compromising your faith, and insulting God's integrity and fortitude - nothing that He implements and legislates will fall by the wayside.

For thousands of years the clergy have brainwashed Christians into believing only their ‘brand’ is true. This has allowed them to accumulate undreamed of wealth and power, something they would never ever think of giving up should Christ return. So they forever tell their followers all the Prophets gone before and the 3 new Ones are all false so they can continue to keep this wealth and power.

The followers are just too nice to stand up to their leaders and question why there are 40,000 sects when Jesus taught love? Why the inquisition? Why the papal wars? Why the child sexual abuse? All these evil deeds indicate to me that following truth has been the very last thing on the clergy’s minds.

Only Jesus taught truth? Opening of one’s mind can be extremely painful after years of indoctrination and brainwashing but after investigating Buddha, Krishna, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha’u’llah I found no difference between Them. They all teach truth. I was taught complete and utter nonsense as a Christian that goes against every law of love in the Bible.

What was that Jesus said about many mansions? John 14:2

In my Father's house are many mansions..

An honest person can accept that God sent other Prophets than Jesus. But it can be a severe test to a very strong Christian even to accept Jesus return when his pastor says He hasn’t returned.

In accepting Christ’s return, I love Him more. You don’t give up belief in Christ by accepting His Second Coming, you prove you are truly faithful to your belief.
 

DNB

Christian
You are free to believe that because you have free will.
Baha'is have their beliefs and Christians have their beliefs. I do not like to argue over this.
However, it is notable that the Bible does not support the Christian belief that the same man Jesus will return to earth.
I offered Scripture?
 

DNB

Christian
When we hear of Christ’s return we should rejoice not denounce those bringing the Glad Tidings.
Many false prophets will come in his name, do not believe them.

Matthew 7:15
Beware of false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.

Matthew 24:5
For many will come in My name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many.

Matthew 24:12
Because of the multiplication of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold.

Matthew 24:24
For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders that would deceive even the elect, if that were possible.
 

DNB

Christian
For thousands of years the clergy have brainwashed Christians into believing only their ‘brand’ is true. This has allowed them to accumulate undreamed of wealth and power, something they would never ever think of giving up should Christ return. So they forever tell their followers all the Prophets gone before and the 3 new Ones are all false so they can continue to keep this wealth and power.

The followers are just too nice to stand up to their leaders and question why there are 40,000 sects when Jesus taught love? Why the inquisition? Why the papal wars? Why the child sexual abuse? All these evil deeds indicate to me that following truth has been the very last thing on the clergy’s minds.

Only Jesus taught truth? Opening of one’s mind can be extremely painful after years of indoctrination and brainwashing but after investigating Buddha, Krishna, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha’u’llah I found no difference between Them. They all teach truth. I was taught complete and utter nonsense as a Christian that goes against every law of love in the Bible.

What was that Jesus said about many mansions? John 14:2

In my Father's house are many mansions..

An honest person can accept that God sent other Prophets than Jesus. But it can be a severe test to a very strong Christian even to accept Jesus return when his pastor says He hasn’t returned.

In accepting Christ’s return, I love Him more. You don’t give up belief in Christ by accepting His Second Coming, you prove you are truly faithful to your belief.
So Christ died in vain - not required to accept his Messiaship for salvation?
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Many false prophets will come in his name, do not believe them.
Many false prophets have come claiming to be Christ and that is why Jesus warned us to watch out for them.

Baha'u'llah was not one of those false prophets since Baha'u'llah came with a new name, just as the Bible says.

Isaiah 62:2 And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the Lord shall name.

Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Revelation 3:12-13 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

The new name means that the return of Christ would be another man with a different name.

Jesus was telling the churches to listen to Him, telling them that He will return with a new name which will be written on a white stone.

It is all explained in this article. Exploring Christ’s New Name

Exploring Christ’s New Name
Alex Gottdank | Jun 3, 2013

The views expressed in our content reflect individual perspectives and do not represent the official views of the Baha'i Faith.

Will the Return of Christ actually be Christ Himself? Scripture indicates that:

If anyone should say, Lo, here is Christ … believe it not. – Matthew 24:23

Knowing this, imagine if someone inside her home heard a neighbor yelling, “Here is Christ on the clouds!” Should she go outside to confirm it — or follow scriptural guidance, which says “believe it not”? It seems if Christ knew He would return on physical clouds, He would not have given this warning, because it would only confuse those who took it literally. He did, however, give the warning. Why? Perhaps Jesus wanted to tell us that He, Himself, will not return.

In fact, Christ declared that those who would overcome the trials of the end days would receive His new name:

Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God … and I will write upon him my new name. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. – Revelation 3:12-13

This shows that not only will Christ not come in His own name, but those who try to come in His name will deceive many.

For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. – Matthew 24:5

Clearly, no one, not even Christ Himself, can come in the name of Christ. Anyone doing so would be false. Of course, Baha’u’llah does not do this. He does not claim the name Jesus Christ nor claim to be the person Jesus Christ. Instead, He claims to be the Return of Christ because He is the Return of the Spirit of Christ in a new name, just as Christ prophesied.

Interestingly enough, Baha’u’llah’s name can be found in the Bible. Just as Christ is a title, which means holy one or anointed one, the name Baha’u’llah is a title — it means the glory of God or the glory of the father. The Biblical prophet Ezekiel, one of the Jewish exiles taken to Babylon by Nebuchadnezzar, saw visions of God one day while walking near the Chebar river.

Now it came to pass . . . as I was among the captives by the River Chebar . . . I saw visions of God. . . . This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. – Ezekiel 1:1, 28

zekiel had his vision in the very place, nearly 2,300 years later, where Baha’u’llah declared His mission to the world, while an exile from His native Persia. Ezekiel further explains this glory of the Lord as a person when he relates:

And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east: and his voice was like a noise of many waters . . . and the visions were like the vision that I saw by the river Chebar . . . And the glory of the LORD came into the house by the way of the gate whose prospect is toward the east. So the spirit took me up, and brought me into the inner court; and, behold, the glory of the LORD filled the house. Ezekiel 43:2-6

Ezekiel describes the “glory of the Lord” coming by way of “the gate”. This prophesy puzzles many people, until they realize that the forerunner to Baha’u’llah was named the Báb, a title that means “the gate”. And if the water of life symbolizes the “Word of God”, then the “noise of many waters” represents the revelation of life-giving words that flow from His mouth or “voice”.

Many other Biblical passages support Baha’u’llah’s declaration. Multiple volumes of scholarly books detail and define the prophecies that preceded this new and yet ancient Faith. But some Christians still fear this claim of Baha’u’llah’s. In tomorrow’s essay, we’ll address those fears by referring directly to the Bible’s warnings and the Baha’i teachings

Read the next article in the series: Christ’s Warning – the Anti-Christ

Read the previous article in the series: The Nature of Christ’s Return
 

DNB

Christian
I do not believe that Scripture applies to Jesus.
So, you have accepted an imposter as Jesus, then. You read the words '...no one comes to the Father, but by me...'. And yet, you accept people who don't even claim to be Jesus. Did Mohammed believe that he was Jesus, obviously not - Muslims don't even accept that Jesus died, whereas the Law demands that he must.
You have ascribed the person of Christ to another, who is neither Jesus nor Messiah. You are promoting an absurd form of reincarnation.
 

DNB

Christian
Many false prophets have come claiming to be Christ and that is why Jesus warned us to watch out for them.

Baha'u'llah was not one of those false prophets since Baha'u'llah came with a new name, just as the Bible says.

Isaiah 62:2 And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the Lord shall name.

Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Revelation 3:12-13 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

The new name means that the return of Christ would be another man with a different name.

Jesus was telling the churches to listen to Him, telling them that He will return with a new name which will be written on a white stone.

It is all explained in this article. Exploring Christ’s New Name

Exploring Christ’s New Name
Alex Gottdank | Jun 3, 2013

The views expressed in our content reflect individual perspectives and do not represent the official views of the Baha'i Faith.

Will the Return of Christ actually be Christ Himself? Scripture indicates that:

If anyone should say, Lo, here is Christ … believe it not. – Matthew 24:23

Knowing this, imagine if someone inside her home heard a neighbor yelling, “Here is Christ on the clouds!” Should she go outside to confirm it — or follow scriptural guidance, which says “believe it not”? It seems if Christ knew He would return on physical clouds, He would not have given this warning, because it would only confuse those who took it literally. He did, however, give the warning. Why? Perhaps Jesus wanted to tell us that He, Himself, will not return.

In fact, Christ declared that those who would overcome the trials of the end days would receive His new name:

Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God … and I will write upon him my new name. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. – Revelation 3:12-13

This shows that not only will Christ not come in His own name, but those who try to come in His name will deceive many.

For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. – Matthew 24:5

Clearly, no one, not even Christ Himself, can come in the name of Christ. Anyone doing so would be false. Of course, Baha’u’llah does not do this. He does not claim the name Jesus Christ nor claim to be the person Jesus Christ. Instead, He claims to be the Return of Christ because He is the Return of the Spirit of Christ in a new name, just as Christ prophesied.

Interestingly enough, Baha’u’llah’s name can be found in the Bible. Just as Christ is a title, which means holy one or anointed one, the name Baha’u’llah is a title — it means the glory of God or the glory of the father. The Biblical prophet Ezekiel, one of the Jewish exiles taken to Babylon by Nebuchadnezzar, saw visions of God one day while walking near the Chebar river.

Now it came to pass . . . as I was among the captives by the River Chebar . . . I saw visions of God. . . . This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. – Ezekiel 1:1, 28

zekiel had his vision in the very place, nearly 2,300 years later, where Baha’u’llah declared His mission to the world, while an exile from His native Persia. Ezekiel further explains this glory of the Lord as a person when he relates:

And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east: and his voice was like a noise of many waters . . . and the visions were like the vision that I saw by the river Chebar . . . And the glory of the LORD came into the house by the way of the gate whose prospect is toward the east. So the spirit took me up, and brought me into the inner court; and, behold, the glory of the LORD filled the house. Ezekiel 43:2-6

Ezekiel describes the “glory of the Lord” coming by way of “the gate”. This prophesy puzzles many people, until they realize that the forerunner to Baha’u’llah was named the Báb, a title that means “the gate”. And if the water of life symbolizes the “Word of God”, then the “noise of many waters” represents the revelation of life-giving words that flow from His mouth or “voice”.

Many other Biblical passages support Baha’u’llah’s declaration. Multiple volumes of scholarly books detail and define the prophecies that preceded this new and yet ancient Faith. But some Christians still fear this claim of Baha’u’llah’s. In tomorrow’s essay, we’ll address those fears by referring directly to the Bible’s warnings and the Baha’i teachings

Read the next article in the series: Christ’s Warning – the Anti-Christ

Read the previous article in the series: The Nature of Christ’s Return
Sorry Trailblazer, I appreciate all your efforts in explaining in a thorough manner how you interpret Scriptures, but I believe that you have delved into such a mystical and esoteric realm that you ultimately assign so much ambiguity in both the meaning of the text, and the conclusion.
You even interpreted one context to two different entities, claiming that the new name pertains to both Christ and to His faithful.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
So, you have accepted an imposter as Jesus, then. You read the words '...no one comes to the Father, but by me...'. And yet, you accept people who don't even claim to be Jesus.
No, I do not accept Baha'u'llah as Jesus since He never claimed to be Jesus.
"...no one comes to the Father, but by me...' was true during the Christian Dispensation because Jesus was the way God wanted people to come to God , but God never intended for the Christian dispensation to last forever.

Dispensation
  1. the divine ordering of the affairs of the world.
  2. an appointment, arrangement, or favor, as by God.
  3. a divinely appointed order or age:
e.g. the old Mosaic, or Jewish, dispensation; the new gospel, or Christian, dispensation.

Definition of dispensation | Dictionary.com
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Sorry Trailblazer, I appreciate all your efforts in explaining in a thorough manner how you interpret Scriptures, but I believe that you have delved into such a mystical and esoteric realm that you ultimately assign so much ambiguity in both the meaning of the text, and the conclusion.
What do you think the new name refers to? It certainly is not referring to Jesus.
You even interpreted one context to two different entities, claiming that the new name pertains to both Christ and to His faithful.
I do not know what you are referring to.
The new name refers only to the man who would be the return of Christ, another man with a different name than Jesus.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
Many false prophets will come in his name, do not believe them.

Matthew 7:15
Beware of false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.

Matthew 24:5
For many will come in My name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many.

Matthew 24:12
Because of the multiplication of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold.

Matthew 24:24
For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders that would deceive even the elect, if that were possible.

Yes very true. And the false Prophets are the clergy and priests who are telling their followers that Christ has not returned and Christians follow them hook, line and sinker. Meanwhile the true Prophets have appeared and Christ returned in the Glory of the Father and a sincere Christian is nowhere to be found!!

But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly. For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man. Christ (Luke 21:34-36)

No one watched and so missed the coming of the Lord. It is not too late to wake up.
 
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