If Jesus Died...

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

How so?

Because “thou shall not murder” is first described in the time of Moses?

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Weird point of view. Why would there be a tomb if he went directly to heaven? The shroud, what would that be?

Resurrection?

But how many doctors were on site to determine that jesus died rather than pass out unconscious?

Who checked his pulse? Who even knew what a pulse was?

Funny how resurrected people always died of something vague. I don’t see anyone trying to get the Baptist back. That would be a miracle.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

No, I was addressing the comments. If he went to heaven then what is a tomb for. is it possible that he was unconscious, awoke and walked out after 3 days, thirsty and hungry...yes! Then hid in the shadows, spoke to a few and then left town.... yes.

Convenient that he wasn’t interred under a bunch of dirt and instead was laid to rest in a small room with a rock door that apparently wasn’t airtight.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Planes can transport people in the sky. God is stronger than planes.

Do we make planes out of iron?

 

[paarsurrey]

Convenient that he wasn’t interred under a bunch of dirt and instead was laid to rest in a small room with a rock door that apparently wasn’t airtight.

It also had an opening working as a ventilator, right?

Regards
________________

 

[Colt]

It also had an opening working as a ventilator, right?

Regards

The resurrected Jesus appeared in locked rooms. He would suddenly appear and vanish to believers. The tomb could have remained closed, but the material, fleshly body of Jesus needed to be taken out and dematerialized.

 

[Ebionite]

The resurrected Jesus appeared in locked rooms.

You'd think that if the story about resurrection was true then there would be something from the prophets to support it.

And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
Luke 24:46

After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.
Hosea 6:2

 

[Bthoth]

Of course they buried his body in a tomb. Did you read the passages about what happened after he was killed? Matthew chapters 27 & 28 explain it quite clearly. They're not too long so I hope you take the time to read them.

I did reread both chapters. Who were the saints that arose from their sleep matt 27:52. Bodies having fallen asleep....... Sleep? I get the idea that the tomb was a hotel of some sort and people sleep there.

 

[nPeace]

Yes , i agree ,

You agree that neither Enoch, nor Elijah, went to heaven! Cool.
I wonder why your post got a "like" from someone who does not agree with that. That's weird.

Jesus is the first raised to the new heavens

To the New heavens? Where did you read that Jesus was raised to New heavens?

I read...
(John 8:23) . . .I am from the realms above. . .
(John 3:31) The one who comes from above is over all others. The one who is from the earth is from the earth and speaks of things of the earth. The one who comes from heaven is over all others.
(John 13:3) So Jesus, knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands and that he came from God and was going to God,
(John 16:28) I came as the Father’s representative and have come into the world. Now I am leaving the world and am going to the Father.”
(Hebrews 8:1, 2) 1 Now this is the main point of what we are saying: We have such a high priest as this, and he has sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a minister of the holy place and of the true tent, which Jehovah set up, and not man.
(Hebrews 9:24) For Christ did not enter into a holy place made with hands, which is a copy of the reality, but into heaven itself, so that he now appears before God on our behalf.

Is this not the same heaven where God dwells, and where Jesus came from?
(Psalm 110:1) Jehovah declared to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”
(Hebrews 1:3) He is the reflection of God’s glory and the exact representation of his very being, and he sustains all things by the word of his power. And after he had made a purification for our sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high.
(Acts 2:32, 33) 32 God resurrected this Jesus, and of this we are all witnesses. 33 Therefore, because he was exalted to the right hand of God and received the promised holy spirit from the Father, he has poured out what you see and hear.
(Acts 7:55) But he, being full of holy spirit, gazed into heaven and caught sight of God’s glory and of Jesus standing at God’s right hand,
(Ephesians 1:20) which he exercised toward Christ when he raised him up from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places,

In other words...
What you talking bout Dimi?

Isaiah 65:17
"See, I will create new heavens and a new earth.The former things will not be remembered".

2 Peter 3:13
"But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells."

You think this new heavens is a new home of God, or new universe with new planets, Dimi?
Please describe the New Heavens to me.

Luke 9:30-32
"Two men, Moses and Elijah, appeared in glorious splendor, talking with Jesus. They spoke about his departure,which he was about to bring to fulfillment at Jerusalem."

Imagine Peter's excitement! "Elijah! Moses!"

(Luke 9:33) . . .Peter said to Jesus: “Instructor, it is fine for us to be here. So let us erect three tents, one for you, one for Moses, and one for E·liʹjah.” He did not realize what he was saying.

Yes. Like many today who read the Bible, Peter thought that what he was seeing, a physical reality.
He did not realize he was seeing a vision.
(Matthew 17:7-9) 7 Then Jesus came near, and touching them, he said: “Get up. Have no fear.” 8 When they looked up, they saw no one but Jesus himself. 9 As they were descending from the mountain, Jesus commanded them: “Tell the vision to no one until the Son of man is raised up from the dead.”

In the vision Moses and Elijah represents something in relation to the kingdom.

Also , my point was that they were dead in this world , and i said they were taken , as Scripture says.

Yes, they were taken out of this life. Are you thinking they were taken somewhere, beside under the dirt?

Again , New and Everlasting Covenant!

Pardon me? I'm not sure where this fits. Can you clarify, please?

 

[nPeace]

I did reread both chapters. Who were the saints that arose from their sleep matt 27:52. Bodies having fallen asleep....... Sleep?

That verse is puzzling to many.
Some, believe They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection.
Jesus was resurrected three days later, however.

This suggests that verses 27 and 28 are not connected with reference to the holy ones.
Interestingly, the verse uses key expressions... And the tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints having fallen asleep arose.

Bodies do not sleep. Would you not agree?
So the verse is saying, Tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints arose." The Greek word egeiró:, also means 'to raise up'.
In other words, the bodies of the dead saints were raised up - the scriptures do not say, raised to life, but raised up.

The earthquake ejected bodies from their tombs... to simplify it.
What about the next verse?
If you read it here, you might see that it doesn't tell us the saints entered the holy city.

The Greek word, egersis does mean rising up - egeiró, but not from death, and certainly not resurrection... which is anastasis: a standing up, i.e. a resurrection, a raising up, rising.
Matthew is continuing with the same Greek word for raised up. Not standing again, or resurrection.

I'll say though, that this verse can be considered, puzzling... even confusing, if one has very little knowledge of scriptures, or don't understand, their message,
Since I know from the scriptures, that the resurrection does not occur before this...
(1 Thessalonians 4:15, 16) 15 For this is what we tell you by Jehovah’s word, that we the living who survive to the presence of the Lord will in no way precede those who have fallen asleep in death; 16 because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first.

I can be 100% certain that those entering the holy city after coming out from the tombs, were not the Saints.

I get the idea that the tomb was a hotel of some sort and people sleep there.

 

[Bthoth]

Bodies do not sleep. Would you not agree?

My body sleeps every day.

So the verse is saying, Tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints arose." The Greek word egeiró:, also means 'to raise up'.
In other words, the bodies of the dead saints were raised up - the scriptures do not say, raised to life, but raised up.

So which is it.... Arose to life, or awakened from sleep?

If the message is important enough to put into the chapter, you would think that they addressed it and then named the persons.

The earthquake ejected bodies from their tombs... to simplify it.

That could be another zombie episode

What about the next verse?
If you read it here, you might see that it doesn't tell us the saints entered the holy city.

What's holy about any city? Jerusalem is the 'city of blood'

The Greek word, egersis does mean rising up - egeiró, but not from death, and certainly not resurrection... but anastasis: a standing up, i.e. a resurrection, a raising up, rising.
Matthew is continuing with the same Greek word for raised up. Not standing again, or resurrection.

Again, just zombies?

I'll say though, that this verse can be considered, puzzling... even confusing, if one has very little knowledge of scriptures, or don't understand, their message,
Since I know from the scriptures, that the resurrection does not occur before this...

So you know the chapter too but have no solid answer.

(1 Thessalonians 4:15, 16) 15 For this is what we tell you by Jehovah’s word, that we the living who survive to the presence of the Lord will in no way precede those who have fallen asleep in death; 16 because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first.

I do not like 'letters between church'.... they mean very little to me.

I can be 100% certain that those entering the holy city after coming out from the tombs, were not the Saints.

YLT: m 27:52 and the tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who have fallen asleep, arose,

Many bodies?

 

[nPeace]

My body sleeps every day.

I'm not sure whom you allowed to mislead you with that.
What Happens to Your Body When You Sleep?
What Happens When You Sleep?
When you sleep, your body undergoes a series of changes that enable the rest that is vital to your overall health. Sleep allows the brain and body to slow down and engage in processes of recovery, promoting better physical and mental performance the next day and over the long-term.
The Science of Sleep: Understanding What Happens When You Sleep
Before the 1950s, most people believed sleep was a passive activity during which the body and brain were dormant. “But it turns out that sleep is a period during which the brain is engaged in a number of activities necessary to life - which are closely linked to quality of life,” says Johns Hopkins sleep expert and neurologist Mark Wu, M.D., Ph.D.

If your body sleeps, then you are in a never ending sleep. Which means, you must be dreaming.
Only. That's not possible if your brain isn't awake. So no. Your body doesn't sleep.

So which is it.... Arose to life, or awakened from sleep?

Rose up from the tombs - unearthed.

If the message is important enough to put into the chapter, you would think that they addressed it and then named the persons.

Or you would have heard about these later.
Some think John the Baptist was a Saint. Zechariah certainly was righteous. Also Anna, who was never missing from the temple.
Lazarus was Jesus' friend, and certainly a righteous man.
Not a word of any of them being raised up.

That could be another zombie episode

Sounds like too much Hollywood.

What's holy about any city? Jerusalem is the 'city of blood'

I take it you are looking from one perspective
There are other perspectives to look from.
You know what they say. There are two sides to a coin... and a cube... In 2d, you will always see one face. In 3d or 4d, that's not the case.

Again, just zombies?

You need to get out of the Hollywood window... and breath fresh air. Live the real life.

So you know the chapter too but have no solid answer.

Any more solid, and you might join Hollywood's zombies.

I do not like 'letters between church'.... they mean very little to me.

YLT: m 27:52 and the tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who have fallen asleep, arose,

Many bodies?

Yes. Many bodies.
200 corpses in the cemetery were thrown out of their tombs by a violent earth tremor. - El Tiempo, Bogotá, Colombia, July 31, 1962

 

[YoursTrue]

That verse is puzzling to many.
Some, believe They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection.
Jesus was resurrected three days later, however.

This suggests that verses 27 and 28 are not connected with reference to the holy ones.
Interestingly, the verse uses key expressions... And the tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints having fallen asleep arose.

Bodies do not sleep. Would you not agree?
So the verse is saying, Tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints arose." The Greek word egeiró:, also means 'to raise up'.
In other words, the bodies of the dead saints were raised up - the scriptures do not say, raised to life, but raised up.

The earthquake ejected bodies from their tombs... to simplify it.
What about the next verse?
If you read it here, you might see that it doesn't tell us the saints entered the holy city.

The Greek word, egersis does mean rising up - egeiró, but not from death, and certainly not resurrection... which is anastasis: a standing up, i.e. a resurrection, a raising up, rising.
Matthew is continuing with the same Greek word for raised up. Not standing again, or resurrection.

I'll say though, that this verse can be considered, puzzling... even confusing, if one has very little knowledge of scriptures, or don't understand, their message,
Since I know from the scriptures, that the resurrection does not occur before this...
(1 Thessalonians 4:15, 16) 15 For this is what we tell you by Jehovah’s word, that we the living who survive to the presence of the Lord will in no way precede those who have fallen asleep in death; 16 because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first.

I can be 100% certain that those entering the holy city after coming out from the tombs, were not the Saints.

I looked at various translatioms of those verses and it's interesting. The idea that their bodies were ejected from the tombs and others reported it makes sense.

 

[YoursTrue]

My body sleeps every day.

So which is it.... Arose to life, or awakened from sleep?

If the message is important enough to put into the chapter, you would think that they addressed it and then named the persons.

That could be another zombie episode

What's holy about any city? Jerusalem is the 'city of blood'

Again, just zombies?


So you know the chapter too but have no solid answer.

I do not like 'letters between church'.... they mean very little to me.

YLT: m 27:52 and the tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who have fallen asleep, arose,

Many bodies?

Rarely do I remember my dreams. I wake up a lot during the night, but if I dream I don't remember them. (Thankfully anyway, I don't have to think about analyzing them or think about what they might mean.) I have read we dream no matter what. As I have come to understand it from my study of the Scriptures, death in the physical sense means we know nothing. God can remember us, as Jesus said Jehovah knows even a little sparrow that falls to the ground. Despite the misery I see in the world, I am grateful to have life and the hope I have for the future.

 

[Bthoth]

Rarely do I remember my dreams. I wake up a lot during the night, but if I dream I don't remember them. (Thankfully anyway, I don't have to think about analyzing them or think about what they might mean.) I have read we dream no matter what. As I have come to understand it from my study of the Scriptures, death in the physical sense means we know nothing. God can remember us, as Jesus said Jehovah knows even a little sparrow that falls to the ground. Despite the misery I see in the world, I am grateful to have life and the hope I have for the future.

where did the dream concept begin?
I did not speak of dreams. And yes, to awaken is an opportunity to appreciate being alive here in heaven.

 

[Bthoth]

I'm not sure whom you allowed to mislead you with that.
What Happens to Your Body When You Sleep?
What Happens When You Sleep?
When you sleep, your body undergoes a series of changes that enable the rest that is vital to your overall health. Sleep allows the brain and body to slow down and engage in processes of recovery, promoting better physical and mental performance the next day and over the long-term.
The Science of Sleep: Understanding What Happens When You Sleep
Before the 1950s, most people believed sleep was a passive activity during which the body and brain were dormant. “But it turns out that sleep is a period during which the brain is engaged in a number of activities necessary to life - which are closely linked to quality of life,” says Johns Hopkins sleep expert and neurologist Mark Wu, M.D., Ph.D.

If your body sleeps, then you are in a never ending sleep. Which means, you must be dreaming.
Only. That's not possible if your brain isn't awake. So no. Your body doesn't sleep.


Rose up from the tombs - unearthed.

Was jesus unearthed or in a tomb?

Or you would have heard about these later.
Some think John the Baptist was a Saint. Zechariah certainly was righteous. Also Anna, who was never missing from the temple.
Lazarus was Jesus' friend, and certainly a righteous man.
Not a word of any of them being raised up.

My point exactly.

Sounds like too much Hollywood.

You're the one speaking of unearthed not I.

I take it you are looking from one perspective
There are other perspectives to look from.
You know what they say. There are two sides to a coin... and a cube... In 2d, you will always see one face. In 3d or 4d, that's not the case.

I know, the majority consider jerusalem a holy city, where as i find blood is the end result in many generation.

2 `And thou, son of man, dost thou judge? dost thou judge the city of blood? then thou hast caused it to know all its abominations,

I was just getting biblical.

You need to get out of the Hollywood window... and breath fresh air. Live the real life.

Sincerely

Any more solid, and you might join Hollywood's zombies.

Im not the guy claiming bodies unearthed

Yes. Many bodies.
200 corpses in the cemetery were thrown out of their tombs by a violent earth tremor. - El Tiempo, Bogotá, Colombia, July 31, 1962

OK, but did any walk? Were any saints and described in bible?

 

[YoursTrue]

where did the dream concept begin?
I did not speak of dreams. And yes, to awaken is an opportunity to appreciate being alive here in heaven.

Death is spoken of as a sleep sometimes in the Bible. Even if the body is deteriorated or burnt up, the death state is like sleeping but -- without dreams.

 

[YoursTrue]

where did the dream concept begin?
I did not speak of dreams. And yes, to awaken is an opportunity to appreciate being alive here in heaven.

I think I'm on the earth not heaven But! the time is coming when there will be new heavens and a new earth. That's Revelation 21.

 

[Colt]

Was jesus unearthed or in a tomb?

My point exactly.

You're the one speaking of unearthed not I.

I know, the majority consider jerusalem a holy city, where as i find blood is the end result in many generation.

2 `And thou, son of man, dost thou judge? dost thou judge the city of blood? then thou hast caused it to know all its abominations,

I was just getting biblical.

Sincerely

Im not the guy claiming bodies unearthed

OK, but did any walk? Were any saints and described in bible?

Some see the raising of holy people who had died pointing to 'the resurrection of the last days' (Isaiah 26:19; Daniel 12:2) But obviously it’s an anomaly added to the scriptures. It didn’t actually happen. Perhaps a “seer” knew of a dispensational resurrection that occurred when Christ Michael returned to heaven.

The “new heavens and new earth” refers to the Mansion worlds that Jesus spoke of. This world isn’t our permanent home.

 

[Bthoth]

Death is spoken of as a sleep sometimes in the Bible. Even if the body is deteriorated or burnt up, the death state is like sleeping but -- without dreams.

The other way to observe it, is 2000 years ago, 'unconscious' could have been 'death'. And dreaming could have been having conversations with god.