74x12
Well-Known Member
But we can prove the holy Spirit is God. Why do you claim the Spirit is only "of" God and not God?
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If Jesus Christ is Almighty God then why are we to pray to God through Jesus Christ?
- Thread starter Soapy
- Start date
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
He sure is. And the church isn't any one denomination.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
" ALWAYS"
Did Yeshua- the Israelite Messiah ever say that Christians existed always, please?
If yes, then please quote from him. Right?
Regards
________
Previous posts at pages 1,2,3
Last edited:
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
" 2 Peter 2:1 "
The above verse " 2 Peter 2:1" has not been colored in red in the following Red Letter Bibles:
Holy Bible King James Version (Red Letter Edition)
The Roman Catholic Holy Bible with the words of Jesus in red.
World Messianic Bible
and that means neither Yeshua- the Israelite Messiah, spoke it nor it was authored by him nor it was written by him and as such it is not a reliable source for guidance in ethical, moral and or spiritual matters, it transpires. Right?
Regards
__________
Previous posts at pages 1,2,3
Soapy
Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
We do not need ‘proof’ that the spirit OF God is ‘OF’ God because the truth is right there in the statement: ‘Spirit of God’.
The term ‘Holy’ in ‘Holy Spirit’ is an excessive term. It is self-evident that the Spirit of God would be holy - it can be nothing but holy. And, of course, ‘Holy’ simply means: ‘Dedicated or Consecrated to God’. So the whole term simply defines God’s spirit in deference to any other spirit.
And, I do HATE it when people misname the spirit of God by calling it ‘The holy GHOST’!!! I do wonder at church leaders who use that wrongful term - what are they thinking - what are they believing - what are they teaching their congregation???
Soapy
Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
We do not pray ‘THROUGH’ the Spirit of God.
The spirit of God is an enabler. So it is proper to say that we pray ‘BY MEANS OF’ the spirit of God.
The spirit of God empowers us to perform proper and holy worship of God. It would be a strange thing to therefore say that ‘God empowers us to perform proper and holy worship of God’. Do you see that it would be a circular argument??? Where is the input and where is the output… there would be none!!! God provides the means BY WHICH we can perform holy worship of Him. It is therefore our choice if we use that means!
A light bulb is lit BY MEANS of the electricity flowing through it. It is our choice whether to enable the electricity by switching the electric on!
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
paarsurrey Jesus established a CHURCH! The Church is his Body!
The Church eats the flesh of Jesus in the form of bread! It's called Eucharist!
Jesus is the NEW Passover Lamb of God! All Passover Sacrificial Lambs MUST be eaten!
paarsurrey Christians are followers of Christ! The early Church was made at first with Jews that believed the teachings of Jesus.. The Apostles were all Jews; These Jews that believed the teachings of Jesus are the FIRST Christians!
John 6:52
Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”
Jews are NOT Christians.. The early Christians believe Jesus is God, they believe their God can do all things, even take the form of a Man! Jesus is a Man/God! TODAY....
paarsurrey Christians today believe Jesus is God and that their (Jesus) God can take the form of Bread and Wine!
Paul is a Christian ..He said (below)
27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. 29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves.
Ignatius of Antioch A.D. 110
“Let no one do anything of concern to the Church without the bishop. Let that be considered a valid Eucharist which is celebrated by the bishop or by one whom he ordains [i.e., a presbyter]. Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church” (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 110]).
paarsurrey.. just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church” A.D. 110
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
paarsurrey You forget the Bible is the Inspired words of God! All the bible even 2 Peter 2:1!
If it's in the bible then it is the truth.. God cannot lie!
This is also IN THE BIBLE...
John 20:28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
Clearly Jesus is saying Christians are Blessed because they believe the same as Thomas the Apostle! ... “My Lord and my God!”
paarsurrey The Anti-Christ is Anti-Christian he rejects Jesus is God!
Christians believe Jesus is God! All who reject Jesus is God are doing the work of Satan!
Soapy
Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
“Thomas, are you believing only because you have seen and touched me? Those who are blessed will be those who DID NOT SEE NOR TOUCHED YET BELIEVE!!”
No, Jesus was not ‘blessing’ Thomas. Jesus was BERATING him!!
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
" Bible (The Christian NT) is the Inspired words of God "
Wrong.
Yeshua never said that, one gathers, if yes, then kindly quote from Yeshua in this connection, please. Right?
Regards
___________
My posts pages 1,2,3,5
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
.
paarsurrey The Bible .. All the Bible is the inspired words of God! The Bible is a Christian book it is NOT a Jewish book!
Jesus is GOD!
Christians believe Jesus is GOD... Christian are NOT Jews Christians are Christ Followers!
There is NO "Anti-Jew" because Jews reject Jesus as God....There is only "Anti-Christ" because Satan hates the Truth!
The Bible; the words of God tell you Jesus is God!
paarsurrey Jesus tells you he is God..
28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
Christians believe the same as Thomas... Thomas is a Christian: Thomas tells you "Jesus is his GOD!
God tells you "Christians are Blessed"!
NOT Jews because Jews reject God! They the Jew rejected God when he came in the form of a man!
That is why so many people don't follow the religions but believe in a Creator. And pray to Them the way they want to
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
.
Soapy Jesus was Blessing Christians.. All those who believe; Jesus is God are Christian! Jesus was NOT berating Thomas he was pointing out that Future people CHRISTIANS believe as Thomas... "My Lord & God" will be Blessed!!
Christians believe "Jesus is God"!
Arius was a Christian until he decided to teach Jesus is not God! Christians rejected Arius as a False Teacher!
Christians believe Jesus is God!
"The Apostle" Thomas believed "Jesus was God" Thomas is a Christian; Arius and the JW are NOT!
Hello millerdog good to meet you...
I reply.. Jesus left on earth a CHURCH. Jesus never left behind a book, the Bible is a Book of the One Church Jesus established!
If you believe in a Creator then you believe in God! God is Creator he is NOT a stone or a stick of wood, he is NOT the Sun or Fire or Water.. Or any other god of man....There is but one God!!
Soapy
Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
Dogknox, Jesus told Thomas:
- ‘I am not a Spirit’
- ‘God is Spirit’
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
.
.Christians believe "Jesus is God"!
Yes God is spirit.. JUST Spirit! God is "Holy" his Spirit is HOLY!
We (man) are Spirit and Flesh! WHEN....
Soapy when you die your spirit leaves you! Your body cannot live without a spirit! Spirit & Flesh!
Jesus is Flesh and Spirit also just as we are BUT....
Soapy but Jesus' spirit is HOLY just as God is Holy!
My Lord and GOD; Thomas proclaimed! Clearly; Thomas is a Christian!
Jesus told Thomas; you believe I am God because you have seen me.... Those coming after (Christians) are going to be BLESSED because they will believe I am God without seeing me!
Christians are BLESSED because they also believe as Thomas! "Jesus is GOD"!
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The WORD made everything!
2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
Jesus (the Word before his Incarnation) is revealed to be “God” and the Creator of all things that were created. Genesis 1:1 tells us, “In the beginning God created . . .” The conclusion is inescapable: Jesus is God!
Christians believe "Jesus is God"!
The WORD became Flesh and lived among us!
God became FLESH... Jesus (God) became Man with a SPIRIT & Flesh!
Soapy
Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
DogKnox, you are skirting around the question. You did not answer the simple question I asked you - and you know exactly why you did not answer: because you could not answer!
Jesus told Thomas that he, Jesus, was not a spirit. In fact, that he, Jesus, was flesh and bone… a human being. And TO PROVE IT Jesus invited Thomas to touch him and see that he was the same Jesus Christ who he had _oresimably] seen hanging from the cross with nail in his hands and feet and a hole in his side from the spear would a Roman soldier made to prove Jesus was dead!!!
Also, just to show you know you are wrong, you modified, illegally, blasphemously, the rendering of the event in that you claim that Jesus was saying that Jesus Christ was presenting himself as Almighty God: The Father: Yahweh, to Thomas!!
That was very naughty of you to do that.
Please go and stand in the corner and Count in seconds up to 10,000. Then beg forgiveness from almighty God - and separately to Jesus Christ for your devilish state of mind.
The outcome of all this is that you know you are wrong. Can you stop digging yourself into a deeper hole?
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
.
Soapy You are confused! Christians believe Jesus is God... Thomas is a Christian!
Jesus is ALIVE because he has his SPIRIT!
You are alive because you have your spirit! When the spirit leaves a person they die!
The Father is Spirit
The WORD is Spirit..... the Word was God.
The Holy Spirit is Spirit
Soapy The Word made all things the word is God equal to the Father!
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
The WORD the creator became flesh! The Word got his flesh from his Mother Mary; He has his spirit as GOD! Jesus became the "Man/God!" The Man Jesus has Flesh and Spirit! The Man Jesus is Alive because he has SPIRIT the same as you and I BUT.......
Soapy but Jesus' spirit is GOD' Spirit! Jesus' Spirit is the Spirit of "The WORD, the God, the creator of all things"!
Jesus rose up into heaven ALIVE as MAN! The Christians saw him ascend as a MAN/God! Jesus is God forever a MAN/God!
Jesus has flesh and bone & Jesus has the SPIRIT of God because Jesus cannot die; He forever is God! He came down to earth as God, he rose again from the dead as God, he ascended into heaven as God!
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.
Thomas after he realized Jesus is God proclaimed "My Lord and God"!
Jesus replied: You believe because you saw me you believe because you put your finger into my said... BLESSED are those who will not see me in person as you have but Believe as You..
Christians are blessed; they believes as Thomas! "My Lord and God"!
Christians believe Jesus is God. .Arius WAS a Christian until he believed the same as the Jehovah Witness does today then Christians rejected Arius as a False Teacher as a Heretic!
Soapy Christians REJECT those who reject; Jesus is God, Christians rejected Arius! The Anti-Christ is Anti-Christian he rejects Jesus is God, he rejects The Cross; he does NOT allow a Cross on his churches or in his churches! The Cross saved man from death it was by the cross that Jesus destroyed death and restored life!
Mark La Buda
Member
I do not agree with the scriptures that you listed to supporting that Jesus Christ and God.
I agree. These scripture-in the book of Matthew-supports your post.
“This is my Son…”-3:17
“…son of God…“ (4:3); “…Jehovah’s mouth…” (4:4); “…son of God…” (4:6); “Jehovah your God…” (4:7); “…Jehovah your God you must worship…”-4:10
“…your Father who is in the heavens.“ (5:16, 45) “…heavenly Father…”-5:48
“…Father who is in the heavens” (6:1); “..pay to your father…” (6:6); “…God your father…” (6:8); “Our father in the heavens…” (6:9); “…heavenly Father…”-6:14, 26, 32
“…your Father who is in the heavens…“-7:11, 21
“…Son of God…“-8:29
“…my Father who is in the heavens…“ (10:32, 33); “…sent me forth.”-10:40
“…Father…“-11:25-27
“…my Father who is in the heaven…“-12:50
“You are really God’s son.“-14:33
“…my heavenly father…“-15:13
“…son of the living God…” (16:16); “…my Father who is in the heavens…“ (16:17); “…come in the glory of his Father…“-16:27
“This is my Son…“-17:5
“…my Father who is in the heaven…“ (18:10, 14); “…my Father in heaven…”(18:19); “…my heavenly Father…”-16:35
‘…my Father…“-20:23
“…your Father, the heavenly one…“ (23:9); “…your Leader…” (23:10); “…he that comes in Jehovah’s name!”-23:39
“…neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.”-24:36
“…blessed by my Father…“-25:34
“…in the kingdom of my Father.“ (26:29); “My Father…” (26:39, 42, 53); “By the living God…Christ the Son of God!” (26:63); “You yourself said it…”-26:64
“Certainly this was God’s Son.“-27:54
“All authority has been given me…“-28:18
Again, this is only a sampling of scriptures-taken from one book-that clearly differentiates Jesus from God Almighty.
I agree. These scripture-in the book of Matthew-supports your post.
“This is my Son…”-3:17
“…son of God…“ (4:3); “…Jehovah’s mouth…” (4:4); “…son of God…” (4:6); “Jehovah your God…” (4:7); “…Jehovah your God you must worship…”-4:10
“…your Father who is in the heavens.“ (5:16, 45) “…heavenly Father…”-5:48
“…Father who is in the heavens” (6:1); “..pay to your father…” (6:6); “…God your father…” (6:8); “Our father in the heavens…” (6:9); “…heavenly Father…”-6:14, 26, 32
“…your Father who is in the heavens…“-7:11, 21
“…Son of God…“-8:29
“…my Father who is in the heavens…“ (10:32, 33); “…sent me forth.”-10:40
“…Father…“-11:25-27
“…my Father who is in the heaven…“-12:50
“You are really God’s son.“-14:33
“…my heavenly father…“-15:13
“…son of the living God…” (16:16); “…my Father who is in the heavens…“ (16:17); “…come in the glory of his Father…“-16:27
“This is my Son…“-17:5
“…my Father who is in the heaven…“ (18:10, 14); “…my Father in heaven…”(18:19); “…my heavenly Father…”-16:35
‘…my Father…“-20:23
“…your Father, the heavenly one…“ (23:9); “…your Leader…” (23:10); “…he that comes in Jehovah’s name!”-23:39
“…neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.”-24:36
“…blessed by my Father…“-25:34
“…in the kingdom of my Father.“ (26:29); “My Father…” (26:39, 42, 53); “By the living God…Christ the Son of God!” (26:63); “You yourself said it…”-26:64
“Certainly this was God’s Son.“-27:54
“All authority has been given me…“-28:18
Again, this is only a sampling of scriptures-taken from one book-that clearly differentiates Jesus from God Almighty.
Soapy
Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
There is no reference to the THE SPIRIT OF GOD being GOD!
How is your statement any sense!?
Is a Bowl of Oranges, Orange?
Is the Hand of God, GOD?
The term ‘HOLY SPIRIT’ is an EXTENDED term for ‘SPIRIT OF GOD’.
The ‘Holy’ part is ADDED only to state that it is THE special SPIRIT BELONGING (‘OF’) to YHWH. It is not necessary, net, it is DANGEROUS, to keep referring to it as ‘THE HOLY SPIRIT’ as if it were an independent BEING from GOD - or, indeed, THE FATHER, since it is THE SPIRIT OF THE FATHER.
The spirit of God (the Spirit of the Father) is SENT INTO THE WORLD BY GOD. It is used as an ointment of holiness to anoint Jesus and make him ‘Christ’. Jesus was not ‘Christ’ until after he was anointed (which is what ‘Christ’ means: ‘the Anointed one’)
God ‘poured out his spirit’ (which by necessity is ‘Holy’ since ‘God is Holy’, not because there is a special independent spirit of holiness!) in full into Jesus.
He also poured out his spirit into the apostles at Pentecost.
And He SENT HIS spirit to abide with them after Jesus was taken up to Heaven.
lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
God is spirit. That is what He is made of. If I have a house made of bricks, are the bricks a separate house? If God is made of spirit, is the spirit a separate God? I believe there is a Father made of spirit and a Son made of spirit. That is two persons. The spirit that they are made of is not a third person.