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Featured If Jesus Christ is Almighty God then why are we to pray to God through Jesus Christ?

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Soapy, Jul 3, 2022.

  1. Soapy

    Soapy Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince

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    How is it to be justified as a belief that in order for God to hear our prayers we need to pray through Jesus Christ, in which certain belief systems claim that Jesus Christ is God to whom we are to pray to?

    Another way of asking the same question is, ‘How is Jesus Christ the same GOD that we are praying to when we pray through him?’

    Also, how is Jesus Christ then different to God such that we pray through Jesus Christ in order to reach the ears of ‘another’ whom is God?

    To me, the scriptures, and even Jesus Christ, says that he (Jesus Christ) is a man, a human Being, but a human without sin. And that is the crux that makes it work for me: That because, and only because, Jesus Christ is sinless, analogous to the high priest in the temple, our prayers can only reach THE ALMIGHTY GOD through him, that one considered holy and sinless. In other words, Jesus Christ, like the high priest (and Jesus Christ is himself also a high priest!!) acts as a filter for our prayers to the almighty king, the God of Heaven, Yahweh. This therefore answers my own question saying, ‘No, Jesus Christ is not almighty God’…

    But what do you say and how do you justify your ideas on this using scriptures alone?
     
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  2. Truth in love

    Truth in love Well-Known Member

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    John 17 shows us that Jesus and the Father are not the same person. They are united in purpose and power, but they are two different people. We pray to the Father in the name of the Son as this is proper way we have been taught.
     
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  3. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    The "name" of the Father is NOT God. There is no "person" named God. Both the Father and the Son are included in God just like a human father and son are included in the same family.
     
  4. Sgt. Pepper

    Sgt. Pepper RF's resident Beatlemaniac. ☮ and ❤

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    Have you ever heard of the hypostatic union? It's the theological belief that Jesus Christ took on a human nature, yet he remained fully God. It's in conjunction with the Trinity doctrine. It's what I was taught when I was a Christian, and it's what I believed during that time. I grew up Baptist, but I switched to the Nazarene Church when I was 18, and this belief about Jesus was preached in both of these churches. FYI, these articles explain what I'm talking about: What is the hypostatic union? and Does Christ have two natures?
     
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  5. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    I always wondered why any omnipotent god would ever need or require an intermediary unless its impossible, givin the source is always and consistently a human being.

    The Bible cannot get around that aside from the storylines.
     
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  6. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul Veteran Member
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    Jesus is not God in Essence.

    Jesus as Christ (Annointed One), is a Messenger from God, and the person of Jesus, the attributes he showed us and the Message, is all we can know of God.

    So all praise we give to God is channelled through the Messenger, as they are the source of our being.

    We now can get a glimpse of our unity, in our diversity of worship. As we all pray to God via all the Names of God, the Messengers who are the 'Self of God'. God has Manifested the Attributes in them.

    All people praying to God/Allah all praise God through their chosen Messenger, yet they all pray to the One God that sent them all.

    Regards Tony
     
  7. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    So god is a family?
     
  8. cataway

    cataway Well-Known Member

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    jw עדי יהווה
    no
     
  9. cataway

    cataway Well-Known Member

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    it is likely you do not understand the righteousness of the perfect God
     
  10. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    So I don't get the comparison/metaphor.
     
  11. KenS

    KenS Face to face with my Father
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    OK... this is a question that is often asked and understandably so. Certainly, in our view, being born-again makes it a lot easier to understand although the answer can be very detailed as it has to answer the questions of why and how.

    I know we want to understand everything completely but we still have to remember that God is God and we can't tell Him what He can and cannot do. Regardless, I can understand exactly what He did and why He did it and (hopefully) I can impart this to you.

    However, if one has already decided "this is impossible", then for that one it will be impossible because as a man believes in his heart, so is he.

    We must remember that there was a "before" that was "before" Jesus. He was The Word. John 1:In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    When "14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.", we have to ask, did anything else happen.

    At that moment, he became fully man so that he could model what man was suppose to act and how man was empowered to act.

    Paul understood what happened when he said. Phil 2:6 Who, although being essentially one with God and in the form of God [possessing the fullness of the attributes which make God God], did not think this equality with God was a thing to be eagerly grasped or retained,7 But stripped Himself [of all privileges and rightful dignity], so as to assume the guise of a servant (slave), in that He became like men and was born a human being. AMP

    So, as fully man, he prayed to model to us how we should pray.

    8 And after He had appeared in human form, He abased andhumbled Himself [still further] and carried His obedience to the extreme of death, even the death of the cross!

    When he returned back to the throne, he received back the glory of God (being God) that had had from the beginning as he prayed, "And now, Father, glorify me with your very own splendor, The very splendor I had in your presence Before there was a world. John 17:5 MSG
     
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  12. Sgt. Pepper

    Sgt. Pepper RF's resident Beatlemaniac. ☮ and ❤

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    After studying the Bible without being under the influence of my faith in God, I'm now of the opinion that several stories in the Bible were likely copied from pagan religions that preceded both it and Christianity. I've demonstrated my point of view on this topic before in other threads, so you can click here if you're interested in knowing what I said. I don't mind admitting that I read the Bible through rose-colored glasses when I was a Christian, accepting all the positive aspects of it while attempting to ignore all the atrocious and barbaric behavior of the God it spoke of. I staunchly defended all the sadistic and inhumane acts of a supposedly loving and merciful God when I was a devout Christian, just as many devout Christians staunchly defend the same God now by blaming humanity or the devil for the "fall of man" and for the horrific conditions of violence and suffering in the world. I used the same defense tactics too.
     
    #12 Sgt. Pepper, Jul 3, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2022
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  13. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Well-Known Member

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    .
    Christians believe Jesus is God!
    Soapy To be Christian you must believe what Christians believe!
    Reject what Christians believe; Example Arius rejected Jesus is God.... then you are rejected By Christians just as the Heretic Arius the False Teacher!
    John 1:18
    No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

    Soapy Christians have ALWAYS believe "Jesus is God"!

    Christians are Blessed..
    John 2:28
    Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
    29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.


    Christians believe as the first Christians believed "My Lord and God" just as Thomas the Apostle believed!

    Clearly those who reject; Jesus is God are NOT Blessed!
     
  14. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Well-Known Member

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    Twilight Hue good to meet you..
    I reply.... It was Adam the FIRST perfect man that sinned! Adam was Perfect he was without sin or corruption or blemish.. God does all things perfectly! He made Adam PERFECT!
    This Perfect unblemished man DECIDED to sin; freely with free choice Adam sinned! Adam brought corruption and blemish into God' PERFEC T work! IT'S......

    Twilight Hue it's because of Adam that we are born into a fallen corrupted world.. God made it Perfect; Adam corrupted perfection!
    Jesus is the SECOND Perfect man to be born.. Only God is perfect, God took on the form of man to correct the wrong of the first perfect man! God became man just so he could die as a man! THE....

    Twilight Hue The wages of sin is death!

    Jesus died sinless .. Death could NOT hold Jesus in the grave because he was without sin! Jesus rose up out of the tomb because he was sinless... NOW.....

    Twilight Hue now all who are "IMMERSED" (baptized) into the risen can't die body of Jesus will also live forever! To reject Jesus is to reject life!
     
  15. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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  16. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe I don't know where you get the through idea. We pray in the name of Jesus because it is now the name above all names and believe me God does not allow anyone to supercede Him.
     
  17. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe that is false. God is not two different people. He is only one person in Jesus ie using the definition of person as a living human being.
     
  18. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    God is what He is. As the Father He is know as Yahweh; as the son Jesus, as the Paraclete whatever name the believer has and in my case that means Glenn.

    I believe the family analogy is in error because that implies separate persons which is not the case by most definitions.
     
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  19. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Well-Known Member

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    Christians have ALWAYS believed Jesus is God!.

    Jesus is God...
    God incarnate... God become man! John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

    14 "The WORD BECAME FLESH!"

    paarsurrey God the Father "BEGOT" the son through Mary! Until Jesus was born as man he was "The Word" of God! Through the WORD all things were made!
    John 17:11
    I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one.
    paarsurrey The words of Jesus... as we are one.

    John 17:22
    I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one

    John 20:28
    28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
    29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

    paarsurrey Christians are Blessed because they believe as Thomas! Clearly those who reject Jesus is God are NOT Blessed!

    Arius WAS a Christians he was AMONG Christians until he taught Jesus is NOT God!
    Christians rejected Arius as a "False Teacher"!

    paarsurrey This is scripture Prophesy; This holds true with the False Teacher Arius! Christians were NOT AMONG Arius, the prophesy can only work in the one direction "Arius WAS AMONG Christians"!
    2 Peter 2:1
    But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.
    2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute
    .

    paarsurrey verse #2 proves those who reject Jesus is God are OUTSIDE of the Way Of Truth; They are those who believe as the False Teacher Arius!
     
  20. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    By ALL definitions a father and a son are two separate persons. Why would God be different? And God wants to adopt more sons. That sounds like a family.
     
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