If heaven is perfect ...

[Yoshua]

Angels apparently took on human form and ate with Abraham (Genesis 18). God apparently took on flesh as Jesus. If Gen 6 refers to the sons of Seth, then why would they produce offspring that were described as different from other men?

Hi Buddhist,

Yes, I know that there are instances that angels took on human form. I don't get your answer about the offspring. There are few people during their time. This is between the family line of Seth and Cain.

If heaven is perfect, then its inhabitants would have all their needs fulfilled, correct?

Yes, but all should be in accordance with God's will.

Thanks

 

[buddhist]

Hi Buddhist,

Yes, I know that there are instances that angels took on human form. I don't get your answer about the offspring. There are few people during their time. This is between the family line of Seth and Cain.

I understand it this way.

Yes, but all should be in accordance with God's will.

Thanks

I see the angels lacking something, which caused them to allegedly come down to earth.

 

[rusra02]

So, when men and women reach heaven, they have the potential to fall again, correct?

I believe the destiny for the vast majority who live will be everlasting life on earth, not heaven. (Psalm 37:29) Perfect creatures can sin. The Bible reveals those granted everlasting life on earth will have proven themselves to be loyal and faithful to God, the one who can read hearts. Unlike Adam who failed a simple test of integrity, the humans granted everlasting life will have proven themselves faithful under the most severe trials.(Revelation 2:10)

 

[Etritonakin]

So, when men and women reach heaven, they have the potential to fall again, correct?

No.

First -they do not "go to heaven" as many believe.
The meek shall inherit the Earth -and then beyond. Of the increase of the government of Christ there will be no end.

The whole purpose of our personal and collective earthly existence (and what follows -the judgment, etc...) is to completely eradicate the possibility of choosing disobedience.

The corruptible must put on in-corruption.

Anyone who would want to make this mess again won't be allowed to live forever!

 

[buddhist]

No.

First -they do not "go to heaven" as many believe.
The meek shall inherit the Earth -and then beyond. Of the increase of the government of Christ there will be no end.

The whole purpose of our personal and collective earthly existence (and what follows -the judgment, etc...) is to completely eradicate the possibility of choosing disobedience.

The corruptible must put on in-corruption.

Anyone who would want to make this mess again won't be allowed to live forever!

Why didn't the biblical god create this incorruptable world in the first place?

 

[Deeje]

If we look at Gen. 6:2, that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose, some said that the sons of God are referring to angels, but how come a spirit being took wives for themselves? An angel has no body (flesh).

Hi Yoshua, Just wanted to comment on this.

I would beg to differ on that point. Angels materialized fleshly bodies when bringing messages to God's servants like Abraham. [Gen 18:1-8]
They ate a meal that Sarah prepared for them. Two of them went on to Sodom to rescue Lot and his family. They ate a meal there too.
How does a spirit eat and drink if it has no body?

Mentioning "the sons of God" noticing the beautiful daughters of men and taking wives was nothing new if they were just other humans. Marriage and childbirth had been going on for centuries already....this was something remarkable. These "sons" were materialized angels and their offspring were violent giants who turned the world into a very dangerous place. It forced God to take drastic action. Merely marrying other sons of Adam would not warrant a response like a global flood, but ridding the earth of gigantic, violent creatures who had no right to exist, would definitely be reason enough.

Another thing is the sons of God are the family of Seth who took wives with the family of Cain. I believed this is far more likely that those two families were intermarried if we will based on its context.

There is nothing in the Bible to even suggest this. Unless you have some scripture to back up your statement, it sounds like a bit of guesswork.

Where did you get the notion that the heaven is not perfect? I believed that heaven is a perfect place to live because God resides in heaven. Man's desire to reach God or heaven is the cause of sin, a corrupted mind and heart which started in the Garden of Eden by the serpent.

Satan was already an angel from heaven. According to Ezekiel, satan was the covering cherub in the garden of Eden. He was on assignment in the garden watching over the events that took place there. The devil had access to heaven even after his rebellion because we see this in Job 1 & 2.

[ESV] "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, “From where have you come?” Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it.” [Job 1:6, 7 ]

So satan and these angels were spoken of as "sons of God" presenting themselves before God in heaven. So there was sin in heaven because satan was still there for a time. So not perfect.

In the Revelation, Michael the Archangel and his army are seen evicting satan and his angels from heaven, which was a cause of great joy for them, but woe for us on earth. [Rev 12:7-12]

 

[Etritonakin]

Why didn't the biblical god create this incorruptable world in the first place?

This is the first place. It is still being created - or, more correctly, we are still being created.

The point was not God creating perfection -as he is already able to do that.
The point is teaching us to create perfection.

Perfection can exist without the EXISTENCE of imperfection, even if it cannot be understood without the context of imperfection -but CREATING perfection means that one must be as God -KNOWING good AND evil -knowing that which maintains a perfect creation -and the creation already made, and that which makes it imperfect.

God KNOWS both good and evil -but God is also able to DO only good.

Man initially KNEW only good -but did not fully understand or know good or evil.

Now man is experiencing both good and evil -so later the potential will no longer exist. There will be no question -no doubt -no temptation possible.

We will know God, because we will have proved him to be true, and his government and omnipotence necessary.

Man became as God -beginning to know good and evil -and will also become as God -able to do only good.

As God told man... "you must master it"

Otherwise, we would simply be programs -not true individuals -not truly creative.

As we are true individuals, we must choose to do what is good -and choose to obey God -rather than a constant struggle against the unwilling to maintain order.

For this to happen, we needed to prove that God is who and what he claimed -and that obedience to him produces good -so we were allowed to live otherwise as we chose.

Once we have matured it, none will harm any other -simply existing with each other will be a joy, and infinite individual creativity will be a source of infinite newness -built on a permanent foundation.


Isaiah 45:6-7
That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

 

[buddhist]

Man became as God -beginning to know good and evil -and will also become as God -able to do only good.

So, essentially, you believe in Hindu theology, that man will become God?

 

[Etritonakin]

So, essentially, you believe in Hindu theology, that man will become God?

I am not familiar with Hindu theology.

The bible teaches that man will eventually be like God.
We will still be individuals. The Father will still be the Father. Christ will still be Christ. The Father is in authority over Christ, and Christ will be in authority over all else. It is said that we will eventually judge the affairs of angels, and reign with Christ in authority over us.

Christ is called the "firstborn of many brethren".

1 John 3:2 now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Phil 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself

Many seem to think of the reward of the "saved" as a wonderful place where essentially nothing happens.

The kingdom of God, however, begins with the meek inheriting the earth -as immortals -reigning with Christ -and then increases forever. Rather than sitting around in bliss, we will be able to create forever throughout the universe which, according to scripture, was formed to be inhabited. The universe will not simply be subject to random cosmic events, because our new bodies will allow us power over such.

 

[Yoshua]

So satan and these angels were spoken of as "sons of God" presenting themselves before God in heaven. So there was sin in heaven because satan was still there for a time. So not perfect.

Hi Deeje,

Therefore, because there is satan, the heaven is already not perfect. How about the new heaven stated in Revelation? still not perfect?

Thanks

 

[Smart_Guy]

Ah, are there claims from the scriptures saying Heaven is perfect?

Are there some saying angles live there?

 

[Deeje]

Hi Deeje,

Therefore, because there is satan, the heaven is already not perfect. How about the new heaven stated in Revelation? still not perfect?

Thanks

I have a different view of the "new heavens and the new earth" to most.
Since the flood of Noah's day set a pattern for the future, the "new earth" will be the same planet but cleansed of all wickedness. (Matt 24:36-39; 2 Pet 2:5, 6)

The "new heavens" are nothing to do with replacing the material universe, but indicate a new governmental arrangement over mankind.....God's heavenly kingdom. So yes, everything will eventually be perfect both in heaven and on earth when God's kingdom rules. The heavens are already cleansed and we are waiting for the earth to be next in line for the great laundering.