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If God Controls Everything...

Neo Deist

Neo Deist

Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
Some believe that God controls everything, and that everything happens according to His will. They will go as far as to refuse medical treatment, blood transfusions, etc. Their attitude is that if it is God's will, then they will be saved, cured, not robbed, not in a car crash, etc. So here is a question...

According to Revelation 20:11-15, the dead are raised from their graves and judged according to their deeds [actions]. But if God controls everything, why is a judgment necessary since He would be judging what He caused in the first place? Are humans really nothing more than automatons...mere robots?

Something to think about.
 
Shadow Wolf

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Jayhawker Soule said:
Could you cite one or two religions or dominations that reject free will?
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I wouldn't say they directly reject free-will, but they do believe that everything happens in accordance to god's divine will or plan, which is indirectly denying free-will because everything that happens happens as it does because that is the way God wanted it to happen. This applies to many Evangelical churches.
 
U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Deist Mentor said:
Some believe that God controls everything, and that everything happens according to His will. They will go as far as to refuse medical treatment, blood transfusions, etc. Their attitude is that if it is God's will, then they will be saved, cured, not robbed, not in a car crash, etc. So here is a question...

According to Revelation 20:11-15, the dead are raised from their graves and judged according to their deeds [actions]. But if God controls everything, why is a judgment necessary since He would be judging what He caused in the first place? Are humans really nothing more than automatons...mere robots?

Something to think about.
Click to expand...
This is how I understood it taking all religions I know of perspective of God and not just abrahamic.

"God" (taking out the beard and the four arms here), is just a word for what is keeping the universe (all living) and natural things "alive". It's the "spirit" (which is where that word comes from) or the Life behind life.

Think of it like this (and I think I read this debate from you before..mm..)You have a computer keyboard. The keyboard is "already patterned" to create whatever words You (not the keyboard) decide to type. It's preoranged coding. So, if the coding is God's "Will" and free will is "whatever I type on the screen" then I can do anything "against God's will" by typing, I don't know, f/ and the RF crew (God) would bleep me. They arent doing the controling. So, no. In that sense we are not robots.

Now, if the RF crew or the Computer actually took my fingers and pushed the keys I didn't want to press, that's a different story--that--is control.

What I Personally don't get is... why couldn't God leave the four letters out of the keyboard alphabet. We can still have a freedom of choice...just our choices wouldn't have to have negative consequences.

That's not control; that's a blessing.

There ya go
:leafwind:
 
Shadow Wolf

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Koldo said:
As in libertarian free will ? Calvinism.
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Predestination isn't the same thing as free-will. Under predestination you are still free to do as you will, however, God already knows who is going to Heaven and Hell. In life you can do as you want, but you do not get a choice as to if you go to Heaven or not (compared to a denomination like Baptist, which places the condition of accepting Christ and asking forgiveness to gain salvation).
 
Jayhawker Soule

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Shadow Wolf said:
I wouldn't say they directly reject free-will, but ...
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... but they don't reject free will and that has consequences. And note: the issue is not whether the appeal to free will results in a coherent world view, but whether @Deist Mentor creates a straw man man presuming to debate those who "believe that God controls everything, and that everything happens according to His will." Perhaps not. Let's wait to hear from those here (if any) who would embrace his assertion.
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Deist Mentor said:
Some believe that God controls everything, and that everything happens according to His will. They will go as far as to refuse medical treatment, blood transfusions, etc. Their attitude is that if it is God's will, then they will be saved, cured, not robbed, not in a car crash, etc. So here is a question...

According to Revelation 20:11-15, the dead are raised from their graves and judged according to their deeds [actions]. But if God controls everything, why is a judgment necessary since He would be judging what He caused in the first place? Are humans really nothing more than automatons...mere robots?

Something to think about.
Click to expand...
God gave Man dominion.
I say....that much is synonymous to freewill.
 
ether-ore

ether-ore

Active Member
Deist Mentor said:
Some believe that God controls everything, and that everything happens according to His will. They will go as far as to refuse medical treatment, blood transfusions, etc. Their attitude is that if it is God's will, then they will be saved, cured, not robbed, not in a car crash, etc. So here is a question...

According to Revelation 20:11-15, the dead are raised from their graves and judged according to their deeds [actions]. But if God controls everything, why is a judgment necessary since He would be judging what He caused in the first place? Are humans really nothing more than automatons...mere robots?

Something to think about.
Click to expand...
I think there seems to be some confusion regarding God's purpose and what it takes to fulfill that purpose. First off, we are we are eternal beings and our natural condition is that of a free agent. God, in the process of helping us progress, sent us to earth to gain physical bodies, to gain experience using them with guidelines on how to use them. These guidelines are God's commandments. God will not force us to keep His commandments because that would void the test we are here to undergo. During the natural course of events in our gaining experience, mistakes will be made or God's laws will deliberately be broken and God allows the consequence of those actions to follow. After the test is finally over and all people are resurrected... then God will judge each individual on how they kept His laws (if at all) and how they responded to adversity when they were faced with it.
 
MARCELLO

MARCELLO

Transitioning from male to female
If god controls everything I guess, he must have missed and forgotten Africa. Tell me a reason for AIDS,what's the lesson we should get from this disease?
 
Princeps Eugenius

Princeps Eugenius

Active Member
MARCELLO said:
If god controls everything I guess, he must have missed and forgotten Africa. Tell me a reason for AIDS,what's the lesson we should get from this disease?
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we all get diseases throughout life, so what? suffering is part of life not just good times. back in the middle ages there was a disease that killed 1/4 of the entire population of the continent called the 'black plague'.
 
MARCELLO

MARCELLO

Transitioning from male to female
danddolo said:
we all get diseases throughout life, so what? suffering is part of life not just good times. back in the middle ages there was a disease that killed 1/4 of the entire population of the continent called the 'black plague'.
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So you agree with me that he is not capable of controlling anything.For sure, these kind of plagues mean things are out of control.
 
MARCELLO

MARCELLO

Transitioning from male to female
danddolo said:
I think he is responsible for these plagues. He is also responsible for all the suffering that occured in my life or your life.
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The responsible ones are the microbes and viruses. Clearly there is no place for Him.
 
Princeps Eugenius

Princeps Eugenius

Active Member
MARCELLO said:
The responsible ones are the microbes and viruses. Clearly there is no place for Him.
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Yeah im not really preaching some sort of faith and i dont care what you believe. Because ultimatively youre controlled by god to disbelieve. However strange that might sound to you.
 
MARCELLO

MARCELLO

Transitioning from male to female
danddolo said:
Yeah im not really preaching some sort of faith and i dont care what you believe. Because ultimatively youre controlled by god to disbelieve. However strange that might sound to you.
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So that means there is a god who controls me to disbelieve him? You are funny or He is funnier then you.
 
Princeps Eugenius

Princeps Eugenius

Active Member
MARCELLO said:
So that means there is a god who controls me to disbelieve him? You are funny or He is funnier then you.
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Yeah exactly. And if you think about it its the only logical solution if there is indeed such a being that has omnipotence and omniscience. A god whos will can be broken by sin is not all powerful because he has a weakness.
 
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