If Christ comes today, how do you know it is really Him?

[CG Didymus]

Ha, ha. I have interacted with Bahais for upward of 10 years, but nobody has given me such an explanation. Are you sure you are following the dictates of your House of Justice (sic!)?

Baha'is have committed themselves to the necessity of an "Elijah" coming first. Maybe that's true... maybe not. But can they show that all the other people they call "manifestations" had a forerunner that announced their coming? Did Krishna. Buddha, Zoroaster, Muhammad?

It's too easy for them to just focus on "proofs" that relate mainly to Christianity, because the Bible and NT are a goldmine for them to find quotes that can be made to fit their interpretation.

But they're in good company. Christians showed them how to do it first.

My favorite out of context quote is still how Christians took one verse out of Isaiah chapter seven and made it a prophecy about Jesus being born of a virgin. Is there anything else in that chapter that ties Jesus into the boy being described by Isaiah? No. Does it matter to Christians? No. Just like it doesn't matter to Baha'is what the context might be describing. But... should it matter?

Oh, and one more comment that relates to that... Baha'is ignore verses that contradict their beliefs and interpretations or find a way to interpret them that makes them mean something else. The number one example of that is how they make the resurrection of Jesus a "spiritual" or symbolic resurrection. Again... is it right to cherry-pick the verses they like and ignore the others? No. But does it matter to them? No.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Ha, ha. I have interacted with Bahais for upward of 10 years, but nobody has given me such an explanation. Are you sure you are following the dictates of your House of Justice (sic!)?

I am 100 percent sure that's what Bahai Scriptures say and teach.
Universal House of Justice function is not related to interpretation. They are not given this responsibility or authority to interpret Scriptures.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I hope some Bahais with more knowledge about these things will, if required, confirm/correct what you have said.
Is it necessary that a manifestation of Allah must start a new religion? None of the prophets mentioned in OT started any new religion.
Why I write this is because Bahais do not accept Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as a messenger of Allah since he did not start a new religion.
Then why did Bahaollah start a new religion, just to create conflict with Muslims? Was he not supposed to promote peace and

Ha, ha. I have interacted with Bahais for upward of 10 years, but nobody has given me such an explanation. Are you sure you are following the dictates of your House of Justice (sic!)?

The key here Aumanyav, is there is many ways of explaining this topic. What @InvestigateTruth said is a correct understanding.

Mahdi or Christ in Bahai interpretation is one and the same "Spiritually".

The Bab was the Mahdi. Once He was martyred, then He was resurrected as Baha'u'llah, albeit Spiritually. Then, Baha'u'llah was that same Mahdi that the Bab was.
Likewise, there is only one Christ. When Jesus, the Christ was Martyred, He was resurrected as the Bab later. Then once the Bab was Martyred, He was resurrected as Baha'u'llah. I hope Bahai interpretation and understanding is now clear to you.

The Station of each Messenger is different as they are all sent for a specific purpose, yet they are all "Annointed" (Messiah, Christ = Annointed One) of the One Same Holy Spirit.

The Kitab-i-iqan by Baha'u'llah explains this in great detail and this is where the Baha'i get their understanding from.

The Kitáb-i-Íqán | Bahá’í Reference Library

A treatise revealed by Bahá’u’lláh in Baghdad in 1861/62 in response to questions posed by one of the maternal uncles of the Báb, translated by Shoghi Effendi and first published in English in 1931.

www.bahai.org

I personally see Krishna was much like Jesus the Christ.

The resurrection is of the Attributes of the Holy Spirit, which God's Annoints His chosen Messengers of, it is not a resurrection of the flesh. No other humans are annointed with the Holy Spirit, we must choose to be born again by embracing the Messengers.

This can be explained in many ways, but the Kitab-i-iqan explains it in detail and in logical progression.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You quote Malachi, but is it in context?

Malachi 2:11 Judah has been unfaithful. A detestable thing has been committed in Israel and in Jerusalem: Judah has desecrated the sanctuary the Lord loves by marrying women who worship a foreign god. 12 As for the man who does this, whoever he may be, may the Lord remove him from the tents of Jacob[c]—even though he brings an offering to the Lord Almighty.​

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3:1 “I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking will come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come,” says the Lord Almighty.​

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2 But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears? For he will be like a refiner’s fire or a launderer’s soap. 3 He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver; he will purify the Levites and refine them like gold and silver. Then the Lord will have men who will bring offerings in righteousness, 4 and the offerings of Judah and Jerusalem will be acceptable to the Lord, as in days gone by, as in former years.​

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5 “So I will come to put you on trial. I will be quick to testify against sorcerers, adulterers and perjurers, against those who defraud laborers of their wages, who oppress the widows and the fatherless, and deprive the foreigners among you of justice, but do not fear me,” says the Lord Almighty.​

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4 “Surely the day is coming; it will burn like a furnace. All the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble, and the day that is coming will set them on fire,” says the Lord Almighty. “Not a root or a branch will be left to them. 2 But for you who revere my name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its rays. And you will go out and frolic like well-fed calves. 3 Then you will trample on the wicked; they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day when I act,” says the Lord Almighty.​

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4 “Remember the law of my servant Moses, the decrees and laws I gave him at Horeb for all Israel.​

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5 “See, I will send the prophet Elijah to you before that great and dreadful day of the Lord comes. 6 He will turn the hearts of the parents to their children, and the hearts of the children to their parents; or else I will come and strike the land with total destruction.”​

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Is Malachi warning them about somethings a couple of thousands of years later?

Or... Is this a warning to the people at that time?

As I have offered before CG, I see the prophecy is timeless and all of God's given Messengers will have fulfilled this prophecy either outwardly or inwardly.

Also offered is that the Kitab-i-iqan explains this in logical sequence and detail. There are individual aspects that we still will not know the full meaning of, that is why one cannot get bogged down not seeing the Forrest because of the trees.

Example the age of the Messengers as told in the Bible and Kitab-i-iqan, I would have logically thought it was the length of the Dispensation of their Message, but Shoghi Effendi has offered alternative thoughts in a letter to an individual believer.

"The years of Noah are not years as we count them, and as our teachings do not state that
this reference to years means His dispensation, we cannot interpret it this way".

So in reading those timelines in bith the Bible and Kitab-i-iqan, we are free to consider it however we wish to, we just cannot offer it as a correct interpretation.

There will remain a lot we just do not or can not know.

The messages given by the Prophets is know as judgment day for a reason, we are all judged on our efforts to determine the truth enshrined within.

Regards Tony

 

[Aupmanyav]

If Christ comes today, how do you know it is really Him?​

If he just talks or writes, I would not accept him. Even a scammer, a charlatan or a psychologically disturbed person can do that. He should show some more concrete evidence to be accepted by me.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

If Christ comes today, how do you know it is really Him?​

If he just talks or writes, I would not accept him. Even a scammer, a charlatan or a psychologically disturbed person can do that. He should show some more concrete evidence to be accepted by me.

Like walking on water, or levitating, or walking through glass etc etc, everything a modern day illusionist can do?

What happens if they perform the task asked of them, will you accept them with no further proof?

Baha'u'llah offered to do just that, with those conditions, but no one could think of a miracle and they withdrew from the challenge.

Regards Tony

 

[ppp]

Like walking on water, or levitating, or walking through glass etc etc, everything a modern day illusionist can do?

What happens if they perform the task asked of them, will you accept them with no further proof?

Baha'u'llah offered to do just that, with those conditions, but no one could think of a miracle and they withdrew from the challenge.

Regards Tony

A real God wouldn't offered to perform useless tricks. They wouldn't need to. Nor do they need to ask what would convince the person. They would simply know and do it if they gave a fig about convincing them.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

A real God wouldn't offered to perform useless tricks. They wouldn't need to. Nor do they need to ask what would convince the person. They would simply know and do it if they gave a fig about convincing them.

Precisely and thay is exactly what happend with the Bab and Baha'u'llah, from the records of those that met them.

They were convinced because of their experiences.

Regards Tony

 

[ppp]

Precisely and thay is exactly what happend with the Bab and Baha'u'llah, from the records of those that met them.

You just said the opposite, Tony. Did you misread my post? Or forget yours?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You just said the opposite, Tony. Did you misread my post? Or forget yours?

You misread, or grossly misunderstood my reply, you need to reread it in context of what I replied to. Or maybe you need to follow up on the context of why Baha'u'llah did offer what he offered.

Regards Tony

 

[ppp]

You misread, or grossly misunderstood my reply, you need to reread it in context of what I replied to. Or maybe you need to follow up on the context of why Baha'u'llah did offer what he offered.

Regards Tony

I already read the context. If you want to clarify your thinking, that is fine. I am not going to try to guess your brain.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Like walking on water, or levitating, or walking through glass etc etc, everything a modern day illusionist can do?
What happens if they perform the task asked of them, will you accept them with no further proof?
Baha'u'llah offered to do just that, with those conditions, but no one could think of a miracle and they withdrew from the challenge.

I will take the help of science. I would not take my perception as final.
If science accepts that miracle, I too would accept it.
Bahaollah's audience was uneducated Iranians of 19th Century like himself. They did not even challenge him! Gullible people. After all. they were Shias.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I will take the help of science. I would not take my perception as final.
If science accepts that miracle, I too would accept it.
Bahaollah's audience was uneducated Iranians of 19th Century like himself. They did not even challenge him! Gullible people. After all. they were Shias.

Science is limited to the capaciry of the people using it.

Regards Tony

 

[Aupmanyav]

Science is limited to the capacity of the people using it.

Sure, science has its limitations but it can puncture many balloons.

 

[CG Didymus]

Science is limited to the capaciry of the people using it.

Sure, science has its limitations but it can puncture many balloons.

Baha'is don't seem to listen to their own teachings....

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God has endowed man with intelligence and reason whereby he is required to determine the verity of questions and propositions. If religious beliefs and opinions are found contrary to the standards of science they are mere superstitions and imaginations; for the antithesis of knowledge is ignorance, and the child of ignorance is superstition. Unquestionably there must be agreement between true religion and science. If a question be found contrary to reason, faith and belief in it are impossible… – Abdu’l-Baha, Baha’i World Faith, p. 239.​

​

Some religious beliefs are contrary to what some people believe to be real.

Gods, incarnations of Gods and manifestations of Gods, devils, angels, demons and all those things people that people have believed in and that some people still do... are they real? Are they scientifically provable?

If they aren't... why do Baha'is believe in some of them and reject others? God? Yes. Devils and demons? No. Incarnations of Gods? No. Manifestations of God? Yes. Many Gods? No. One God? Yes.

By "faith" they believe the things their religion teaches as being true. If science contradicts the beliefs of the Baha'i Faith, then it is science that is wrong.

But, for those people that aren't believers in the Baha'i Faith, is it the Baha'i Faith that is wrong?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Baha'is don't seem to listen to their own teachings....

Your interpretation of what I offered was incorrect. If one uses science to say there is no God, then that is useless science.

So I repeat "Science is limited to the capacity of the people using it." Science and Religion are as the wings of a bird, both are needed to balance each other.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

Your interpretation of what I offered was incorrect. If one uses science to say there is no God, then that is useless science.

So I repeat "Science is limited to the capacity of the people using it." Science and Religion are as the wings of a bird, both are needed to balance each other.

Regards Tony

Can you use science to prove there is a God? If you can't... then why believe there is such a thing as a God?

Now maybe the God that Baha'is believe in is real, but what about the Gods of the Greeks? Or what about the Gods of the ancient Egyptians? People believe in Sun Gods, Wind Gods, Gods incarnating into human bodies. Or what about the three-in-one God that is believed in by many Christians?

How do you know that none of them are real? What scientific methods did you use to determine that none of those Gods really exist? Yet, many people did believe they were real. In the Scriptures of many religions there are Gods that have sent fire from the heavens, brought people back to life, and have even spoken. Were those stories telling of actual events? Or was it just fictional stories to get people to fear an invisible God? A God that was ready to judge them and punish them for doing wrong or for not believing in him?

Is there any scientific way to determine if any of those Gods were real or just myth? If not, then why were those Gods rejected and believed to be false? And why is this God of the Baha'is real? How do you know? Did Baha'is use any science to determine that?

 

[blü 2]

If Christ comes today, how do you know it is really Him, and not a fake one?

Not my problem. I'd mention it to the Customs and Border people and leave it to them make sure his papers were in order.

 

[CG Didymus]

If Christ comes today, how do you know it is really Him?​

If he just talks or writes, I would not accept him. Even a scammer, a charlatan or a psychologically disturbed person can do that. He should show some more concrete evidence to be accepted by me.

Showing that "Christ" has come is only part of their problem. As you know, they also have to show how he is the return of Krishna and Buddha and several others.

That is the true miracle... How they can be everything to everybody.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Can you use science to prove there is a God? If you can't... then why believe there is such a thing as a God?

Now maybe the God that Baha'is believe in is real, but what about the Gods of the Greeks? Or what about the Gods of the ancient Egyptians? People believe in Sun Gods, Wind Gods, Gods incarnating into human bodies. Or what about the three-in-one God that is believed in by many Christians?

How do you know that none of them are real? What scientific methods did you use to determine that none of those Gods really exist? Yet, many people did believe they were real. In the Scriptures of many religions there are Gods that have sent fire from the heavens, brought people back to life, and have even spoken. Were those stories telling of actual events? Or was it just fictional stories to get people to fear an invisible God? A God that was ready to judge them and punish them for doing wrong or for not believing in him?

Is there any scientific way to determine if any of those Gods were real or just myth? If not, then why were those Gods rejected and believed to be false? And why is this God of the Baha'is real? How do you know? Did Baha'is use any science to determine that?

Science and reason CG. Each of us to make that determination for our own selves.

Regards Tony