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If Atheism Means a Lack of Belief in There being a God?
- Thread starter wizanda
- Start date
Please keep it to respectful questions only, thanks. This is the DIR; it's supposed to be a safe space free of snark and trolling from theists.Yeh does sort of look like that.
Why do you believe there is no God?
All god-concepts that I have learned of seem arbitrary, unlikely, or all-out contradictory.
All the more so when they are presented as Very Important.
Also - you are ignoring the difference between weak atheism (referenced in the thread title) and strong atheism (which is what you are asking about in the OP).
dust1n
Zindīq
Why do you believe there is no God?
Because I have no belief that there is a God.
Why do you believe there is no God?
Atheists can be divided roughly into two groups; those who have a lack of belief in god, and those who believe there is no god.
The former (lack of belief) is based on using scepticism, reason and evidence to argue that the existence of god is impluasible (but not impossible). It uses science as a method to examine the question favouring naturalistic explanations as they are based on evidence but as It does not exclude the possibility that god exists, it may well have elements of agnosticism in that it is impossible to know for certian either way. This generally referred to as "weak atheism".
The latter (belief there is no god) is often based on philosophical materialism and reliance on naturalistic explanations, whilst excluding supernatural or theological ones as incompatable with scientific knowledge. The contradiction in religious belief is that it makes cliams to know things that cannot be known or proven and demands faith rather than evidence. This kind of Atheism is often presented as a scientific fact (rather than a hypotheisis in the former). The validity of this position is debatable because it could be described as a 'dogma' as it is often taken as self-evidently true as well as deviating from mainstream understandings of science. This is roughly "strong atheism".
In terms of the approach to the question, these are actually near completely different and alien positions because they attempt to establish knowledge of gods non-existence in different ways. Whilst both use science and reason, they differ in that for the former it is a plausible conclusion, whilst the latter an assumption based on a theory of knowledge. Atheists are a very diverse bunch, so this is only a rough outline of the distinction as there isn't a set text or principles to clearly demarcate one from the other as their would be between two religions or two sects of the same religion.
[Edit: speaking as someone who sides with 'strong atheism' as a materialist, the distinction is massive and from where I'm standing, it is hard for me to tell the difference between a weak atheist and an agnostic. weak and strong atheism rest on different ideas of what is 'knowledge' and can therefore clash. I became a materialist a long time ago when I thought it was 'scientific', but now I kind of realise it wasn't what I originally thought it was. I'm still an materialist, and therefore an atheist, by habit- as I haven't found a 'better' worldview come along either in terms of usefulness or emotionally fulfilling. thinking that nothing is beyond human cognition, like the supernatural/god/the soul & afterlife, is very empowering even if I hesitate to say it is true.]
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Yerda
Veteran Member
Is it? Why?
Best as I can figure out, he is implying that we should not have a concept of weak atheism.
Why, I have no idea.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Why do you believe there is no God?
Eh. It does sound like a contradiction statement. I had to re-read it.
For me, it isn't because of evidence or needing an entity appear in the sky to show himself. I will be blunt:
A deity existing (not speaking of any religion), in and of itself, is illogical. Best I can say without saying, kind of silly in my opinion.
From the outside, it looks like a person who believes in a deity is looking outside him or herself for answers that come within. Within ourselves; within our community; within the world we "know." The spiritual part of the world, that which is a mystery, is just that; a mystery.
What puzzles me about mysteries is that it is shrouded in cultural practices.
I actually don't see how a mystery is above us just because it is a mystery.
Take the Eucharist, for example. I believe Jesus Christ is in the Eucharist; and, yes, it is a mystery. However, why does it have to be so? It is cultural and it is tradition. It is common sense. We put spiritual and supernatural attributes to what is purely about psychology and what we value as a community and what we value for ourselves. How we see the world.
Believing in a deity or anything supernatural is kind of missing the point that all of our beliefs not facts are from us.
THAT'S how I see a deity does not exist. Everything about the deity--every aspect of him, her, or they has human attributes. There is nothing I have found about any deity that is not either excused by "its a mystery" or "we need faith".
The tie to deity and human need for purpose, cultural practices, and things like fear of death, acceptence of it, etc leads people to believe in (rather than know that) deities exist.
I think the only way I can see an entity existing is if
1. Anyone can find one part of this deity that cannot be found in humans.
It can't be perfection: A lot of us want to be perfect; so, I can see how we project that on an entity
It can't be higher love: That's subjective. What higher love I feel may be lower to you.
It has to be objective: It has to be a Fact not a belief. I can believe in nature and how she takes care of us. However, I don't have to believe IN her to know that she does regardless of my belief. Nature takes care of us as a fact. We don't need to believe it to be true.
If a deity can be absent of attachment to human needs and wants, that would be a good sign of something or one existing.
--
It's not a bad thing to believe in a deity (or god). I tried through Christ since He is, well, an actually person who actually existed. I found it (the belief not the religion) itself kind of silly to make Jesus God. I understand why. Maybe people needed a "visible image of an invisible God." That kind of helps make the mystery "come alive."
The human need for purpose etc is strong. I don't know why I never had that need for purpose that comes from outside myself. Maybe it's how I was raised.
If it is a fact, it shouldn't have to do with indoctrination, what we are taught, what is written in history, and what we make up today. Facts are independent of that. Two and two will always be four even if there is only one person left standing on earth who can't do arithmetic.
That's my take.
Curious George
Veteran Member
Because the people that include lack of belief in the definition us the coordinating conjunction or. So, one can lack belief or "believe there is no god"Why do you believe there is no God?
So, I guess the answer is that your if statement is incomplete.
Ouroboros
Coincidentia oppositorum
To be fair, if we translated it to something like this:Why do you believe there is no God?
Ask yourself if "I have no knowledge if rabbits exist" is the same as "I have knowledge that no rabbits exist."
The difference is, the first sentence express ignorance of the existence of rabbits, while the second sentence express positive knowledge of rabbits non-existence.
The difference is similar here. "Not believing X" is not the same as "believing not-X." They're similar, actually very close, but not exactly the same. The difference is really in the amount of conviction of the subject. The person who doesn't believe X is less certain of his unbelief, while the person who believes X doesn't exist is quite certain of his/her unbelief.
Marisa
Well-Known Member
You're needing this to be some sort of positive action that the atheist takes. Most often, it's not. I supplied an answer to this question in your other thread, but either you didn't see it or you ignored it. But I'll give it to you again.Why do you believe there is no God?
Of all the god concepts I've been presented to this point in my life, and understanding as much that science has to tell us at this point in my life, it seems highly unlikely that any of those god concepts exist. This isn't quite the same as saying "I do not believe god or *x* god concept exists". I treat them as I'm presented with them.
It also helps that I have a rudimentary understanding of the evolutionary benefit of being able to believe without having proof, and that only serves to suggest that it's much more likely that god concepts are the construct of the human brain.
But given that this appears to be some sort of crusade you're on right now, I have my doubts as to how much of the information you're receiving from apparently repeatedly asking this question you're actually processing, and that alone is worth considering, if you ask me.
HonestJoe
Well-Known Member
I don't really know. Belief isn't a conscious decision, it's involuntary. I don't believe in God (or any other gods) because of the combination of my knowledge, experience and the way my brain works.Why do you believe there is no God?
As it happens, I can also consciously rationalise my weak atheism and feel no need or desire to take it any further in any direction.
Underhill
Well-Known Member
Except it isn't. Use the old analogy from Sunday School.
You sit in a chair with the expectation that the chair will hold you safely. That is faith. It does not have to be a religious thing.
I walk through life with no expectation that god will speak to me or hit me with lightning. Call it faith, belief or sensibility, it does not have to be a religious thing.
Deathbydefault
Apistevist Asexual Atheist
Why do you believe there is no God?
Not only do I not believe, I don't care if your God or any God is real.
God(s) are equivalent to fairy tales and over-the-top and crappy fiction stories, to me.
Also, I don't know about other religious books but the bible is a horrible read - 0/10 boring AF.
So let me sum it up for you.
I disbelieve in God(s) because I see them as pointless, fictional, and boring.
If you send the God of liquor over to my place for some fun then I may change my mind.
Cephus
Relentlessly Rational
Why do you believe there is no God?
Who does that? Or is this just a load of nonsense?
Generally, a specific belief requires specific evidence.
Religions and their descriptions of gods often get rather specific. Like, there is this specific monotheistic deity and he wants you to do x, y, and z or else. Or, we're all part of a panentheistic deity and the specific process is that when you die, you reincarnate for reasons x, y, and z until you fully merge with it. Even something as simple as like, "there is a loving god" is rather specific; it's a claim not only about the existence of a conscious force, but about some attributes of it.
Out of the endless number of things a person could believe, they happen to believe just some of them. Usually we do not have specific words to describe a person that lacks belief in something. Like, we don't have a word for someone who specifically does not believe in astrology, or witchcraft, or tarot reading, or psychic mediums, or that aliens have visited Earth, or that people reincarnate when they die. We simply lack words for them other than the general term of "skeptic". But lack of belief in any gods happens to have a specific word: atheist. Being an atheist is not really any different than being someone that doesn't happen to believe any of those other things, other than it happens to have a term for it.
The reasons a person does not believe in something, like for example gods or astrology or whatever the thing may be, are varied. Often the reason is that they haven't seen any good evidence that support certain claims. Sometimes they've seen evidence to the contrary. Sometimes various claims are internally contradictory and can be dismissed until they come back and try again and make more sense.
If anyone is confused about why someone doesn't believe in any gods, a simple exercise is to think of something that you don't happen to believe in that some other people do, and use that as a starting point.
Religions and their descriptions of gods often get rather specific. Like, there is this specific monotheistic deity and he wants you to do x, y, and z or else. Or, we're all part of a panentheistic deity and the specific process is that when you die, you reincarnate for reasons x, y, and z until you fully merge with it. Even something as simple as like, "there is a loving god" is rather specific; it's a claim not only about the existence of a conscious force, but about some attributes of it.
Out of the endless number of things a person could believe, they happen to believe just some of them. Usually we do not have specific words to describe a person that lacks belief in something. Like, we don't have a word for someone who specifically does not believe in astrology, or witchcraft, or tarot reading, or psychic mediums, or that aliens have visited Earth, or that people reincarnate when they die. We simply lack words for them other than the general term of "skeptic". But lack of belief in any gods happens to have a specific word: atheist. Being an atheist is not really any different than being someone that doesn't happen to believe any of those other things, other than it happens to have a term for it.
The reasons a person does not believe in something, like for example gods or astrology or whatever the thing may be, are varied. Often the reason is that they haven't seen any good evidence that support certain claims. Sometimes they've seen evidence to the contrary. Sometimes various claims are internally contradictory and can be dismissed until they come back and try again and make more sense.
If anyone is confused about why someone doesn't believe in any gods, a simple exercise is to think of something that you don't happen to believe in that some other people do, and use that as a starting point.
psychoslice
Veteran Member
For me its the same reason I don't believe in Santa, or the Easter bunny, or big foot.