Ian Stevenson and his studies on reincarnation.

[StarryNightshade]

Simply put: do you think the studies of Dr. Ian Stevenson are credible in their suggestion/evidence for reincarnation? Why or why not?

Sorry if this subject is ...

 

[LuisDantas]

No, I don't. In fact, I don't see how reincarnation could ever be both meaningful and real.

It is conceivable that in some very rare circunstances some figments of memory could be replicated in other people. But it is a huge leap from that to reincarnation as a possibility.

 

[George-ananda]

Simply put: do you think the studies of Dr. Ian Stevenson are credible in their suggestion/evidence for reincarnation? Why or why not?

Sorry if this subject is ...

This is definitely not beating a dead horse (another thread about how unreasonable some fundamentalist biblical belief is, would be beating a dead horse on RF).

I am one who is quite acquainted with the reincarnational work of Dr. Stevenson. I read his book, Twenty Cases Suggestive of Reincarnation, and its quite exhaustive analysis of each case and the entire phenomena in general. One thing I think anyone who seriously reads his work and spends time thinking about it will conclude that no simple explanation will suffice. No standardly accepted ‘scientific’ explanation is satisfactory.

The ‘skeptic’ community will claim dismissal of this and all paranormal-like phenomenon but you must press your nose close to the window to see if their criticisms in this particular case are significant and valid. In fact, Carl Sagan, known as a rather skeptical type, listed Dr. Stevenson’s work specifically as a field worthy of further attention. That’s actually quite a compliment from a ‘skeptic’.

The amount of detail and follow-up Dr. Stevenson puts into his cases is incredible and anyone who would just dismiss it quickly is showing his prejudice on the subject.

I, as a follower of many great eastern/Hindu spiritual teachers, accept reincarnation as a mechanism that is part and parcel of the universe; a cycle of birth/death we work to liberate ourselves from.

 

[George-ananda]

It is conceivable that in some very rare circunstances some figments of memory could be replicated in other people.

Think about this a moment please before replying.

There is no mechanism by which figments of DETAILED memory can be replicated in a person born years later in the physicalist/materialist scientific view of the universe without some DRAMATIC new concepts that would change dramatically that world view.

 

[LuisDantas]

Sorry, but I just don't see why that would be so. Particularly seeing how infrequent any evidence is, and how questionable what little turns up is.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I clicked on this thread.

All I can say is that I hope the "researcher" is only wasting his time and not other people's money.

 

[Willamena]

Sorry if this subject is ...

...eating a dead cow?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

...eating a dead cow?

No, it's a sunburnt Kate Moss.

 

[George-ananda]

I clicked on this thread.

All I can say is that I hope the "researcher" is only wasting his time and not other people's money.

Why such vehemence?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

.ka-chow.!!!

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Why such vehemence?

Because it's stupid. I don't like stupid things that waste my time.

Part of it is compassion -- I feel badly for people who waste their money thinking they will get a benefit, when all they are getting is waste.

Part of it is jealousy -- we know that there are people who will part with their money easily. I just wish I were diabolical enough to profit from it. He shouldn't be the only one who profits from suckers.

 

[George-ananda]

Because it's stupid. I don't like stupid things that waste my time.

Part of it is compassion -- I feel badly for people who waste their money thinking they will get a benefit, when all they are getting is waste.

Part of it is jealousy -- we know that there are people who will part with their money easily. I just wish I were diabolical enough to profit from it. He shouldn't be the only one who profits from suckers.

Sorry, it doesn't strike me as 'compassion'.

More like a 'fear of other world views'. (I wish I knew the fancy name for that ).

 

[Willamena]

More like a 'fear of other world views'. (I wish I knew the fancy name for that ).

You can use the misnomer "Humean". Lots of people do.

(I only ask that if you use it, you stick to it.)

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Sorry, it doesn't strike me as 'compassion'.

More like a 'fear of other world views'. (I wish I knew the fancy name for that ).

I'm not afraid of something that I could exploit.

I'm mad as hell that someone else ruined for me.

 

[George-ananda]

Sorry, but I just don't see why that would be so. Particularly seeing how infrequent any evidence is, and how questionable what little turns up is.

Often by studying things outside the norm we learn new things. I think that's what's going on here.

 

[George-ananda]

I'm not afraid of something that I could exploit.

I'm mad as hell that someone else ruined for me.

Do you believe people get interested in spiritual subjects for reasons other than exploitation and money?

 

[PastorClark]

Well, i can't say i fully believe in reincarnation. But i can say i do have those feelings that i wasn't born a American and wasn't born of a white man. Maybe its that Cherokee blood running through my veins speaking out.

Despite what others would say, i do believe anything is possible, given the fact that if the universe did came to be without a creator. Then i can surely say anything is possible.

P.S i heard that Jim B. Tucker is continuing Stevenson's work.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Do you believe people get interested in spiritual subjects for reasons other than exploitation and money?

No, I think that people who are interested in these subjects are often gullible and buy crap sold by people intent on exploiting that interest.

 

[LuisDantas]

Often by studying things outside the norm we learn new things. I think that's what's going on here.

You are free to do so, just as I am free to analyse the claims from an angle that I find more proper, as I did.

When push comes to shove, reincarnation just seems logically contradictory to me. We simply do not show anything close to evidence of having so much inheritance from previous generations.

Far as anyone can honestly tell, except _perhaps_ for very freaky occurrences, death is indeed final for memories and personalities - and that is probably for the best as well, since our world would be even more troubled and adverse to social change otherwise. It would certainly be much different.

Those are fairly obvious facts, and taking them into consideration, I just can't figure out why anyone would claim that reincarnation exists, other than as a supernatural occurrence of some sort. A very rare occurrence.

And then there is the even more important fact that reincarnation is an unhealthy belief. You should take a look at how utterly it ruined the moral core of the Kardecists sometime.

 

[George-ananda]

You are free to do so, just as I am free to analyse the claims from an angle that I find more proper, as I did.

That's fine. I think though you are under a different conception of what is going on here with reincarnation than me. Let’s see if I can at least clarify my position.

When push comes to shove, reincarnation just seems logically contradictory to me. We simply do not show anything close to evidence of having so much inheritance from previous generations.

It sounds like here you’re thinking in terms of some type of physical inheritance, then on that point I will obviously agree with you. What I’m talking about is a Self/Higher Self/Soul/Causal Body that is above the physical plane that guides the physical personalities through multiple experiences.

Far as anyone can honestly tell, except _perhaps_ for very freaky occurrences, death is indeed final for memories and personalities -

There is probably our core difference. My reason to differ comes from my considered acceptance of the teachings of the many eastern/Hindu masters and from a variety of different paranormal phenomenon (including reincarnational memories) when fully considered. Consciousness is not physical but can be expressed temporarily through the physical body.

and that is probably for the best as well, since our world would be even more troubled and adverse to social change otherwise. It would certainly be much different.

I see it as quite the contrary. Wisdom and higher spiritual feelings grow through more exposure.

Those are fairly obvious facts, and taking them into consideration, I just can't figure out why anyone would claim that reincarnation exists, other than as a supernatural occurrence of some sort. A very rare occurrence.

Well I hope I can help you ‘figure out why anyone would claim that reincarnation exists’. I must admit in your worldview I can’t see how such a ‘very rare occurrence’ could possibly ever happen even once.

And then there is the even more important fact that reincarnation is an unhealthy belief. You should take a look at how utterly it ruined the moral core of the Kardecists sometime.

Well reincarnation/rebirth I feel is a healthy and true belief for billions of Hindus and Buddhists (I know not all Buddhists) for millenium, myself included. Our goal is to transcend this cycle of birth and death fueled by good and bad karma; no physical reincarnation.

I’ll admit to knowing nothing about Kardecists and their moral ruin.