I wish my country was different!

[Alceste]

I think Alceste should read the initial post without the wine at some point .

i think you missed my point totally.

Ah yes, it looks completely different without the wine goggles. I think I got stuck on the second half. I agree. Religion and politics don't mix, and racism sucks.

Canada has a great advantage over European countries when it comes to dealing with ethnic and cultural diversity. We're huge, so there's lots of room for everybody, and we're young, so there's a less entrenched sense of some kind of historic cultural identity to defend. We're all immigrants here, and we know it (for the most part). Also, we are a pluralistic society. People are welcome to bring their culture, language and history with them when they immigrate and welcome to keep it. None of that "melting pot" nonsense for us.

 

[Doktor]

Ah yes, it looks completely different without the wine goggles. I think I got stuck on the second half. I agree. Religion and politics don't mix, and racism sucks.

People are welcome to bring their culture, language and history with them when they immigrate and welcome to keep it. None of that "melting pot" nonsense for us.

Best thing i have heard all day :bow:!

Couldn't agree more. And thats what we get for thousands of years of history where i am from.
(not to mention the whole raping and plundering viking thing! :sorry1: about that)

You shouldn't force people to give up their history and traditions and obtain new ones just because they are in another country.

Actually this reminds me that in Denmark to become a citizen you have to answer 48 questions regarding the monarchy, politics, history, economics ,culture and many more.
you will have to answer 28 out of 40 correct....otherwise DENIED!
Hell i tried to take the test and didn't pass. lived in the country my whole life! (except for 2009 that is)

 

[Kathryn]

Take away my gender? Take away my ethnic heritage? Take away my faith?

I don't think so. Those things are part of who I am, and part of my identity.

Sure - we're all human, we're all made in the image of God (at least that's my belief). But we're also all unique, and I relish those things that make us unique - not only what makes ME unique, but what makes YOU unique.

I don't want a gray world - I want a world of diversity and color and difference. I personally am not threatened by that - are you?

 

[darkendless]

"Christ .. This has nothing to do with racism!
But if we Danes are so terrible, Why dont you just go back to your own ******* country"!​

It seems like Denmark shares the same problems that we do. Why must people immigrate (not just muslims) and then have a whine about the country. If you don't like it skedaddle off back to wherever you came from

I'm not a racist, but what reason do we have to embrace other cultures we see as detrimental to our own? Why do we get slammed for being the racist west when we're not even allowed to practice our own religions in some muslim/eastern countries? Why is it only white western countries that are racist? I think it is the responsibility of the immigrating parties to accept the culture they are comming to, which, lately, seems not to be occuring. Norway and Sweden have had their fair share of trouble with immigrants refusing to respect their laws. Then there's France. What a bunch of racist pigs they are for trying to maintain national identities

It concerns me that any time a "white" country expresses concerns about its national image and restoration of cultural values, the word racism comes up, and the minority parties seem to always think their rights are being infringed upon.

I can never make sense of such things.

 

[Doktor]

Take away my gender? Take away my ethnic heritage? Take away my faith?

I don't think so. Those things are part of who I am, and part of my identity.

Sure - we're all human, we're all made in the image of God (at least that's my belief). But we're also all unique, and I relish those things that make us unique - not only what makes ME unique, but what makes YOU unique.

I dont want to take it away from you, you can be whoever you are.

But dont "label" yourself (and especially children) with colour and religion.
All we need to know is your name, then it doesn't matter if you believe in god and which one. And When it comes to the religious children, i am a strong Richard Dawkins supporter! And i dont wanna get started on that :foot:

Especially in the U.S you would read "Christian father kills wife" or "black man killed".
And instead of just living together groups break away and start small "colonies" within a city or a country.
And thats where they go "i Am XXXXX so i want to live with others that are XXXXX" cause other people dont understand me i guess would be the point of that.

And I also know that my area used to be predominately protestant.....

This is not a solution for a problem this is simply what causes problems!
A solution i do not have, and nobody has.

And i do agree with you Kathryn that it would be a boring would if we weren't able to have this discussion.

 

[SHANMAC]

Now all we need is some soma...

 

[Aquitaine]

It seems like Denmark shares the same problems that we do. Why must people immigrate (not just muslims) and then have a whine about the country. If you don't like it skedaddle off back to wherever you came from

I'm not a racist, but what reason do we have to embrace other cultures we see as detrimental to our own? Why do we get slammed for being the racist west when we're not even allowed to practice our own religions in some muslim/eastern countries? Why is it only white western countries that are racist? I think it is the responsibility of the immigrating parties to accept the culture they are comming to, which, lately, seems not to be occuring. Norway and Sweden have had their fair share of trouble with immigrants refusing to respect their laws. Then there's France. What a bunch of racist pigs they are for trying to maintain national identities

It concerns me that any time a "white" country expresses concerns about its national image and restoration of cultural values, the word racism comes up, and the minority parties seem to always think their rights are being infringed upon.

I can never make sense of such things.

DUH! Only White people are capable of being Racist.

As for the topic of integration, I believe others who come to a host country can bring "light" Cultural baggage, but not "heavy" Cultural baggage.

What I mean by that is, "light" being stuff like clothing/styles, names, cultural celebrations, religion, decorations, different sports/food recipes etc etc, y' know all that stuff.

But by "heavy" stuff, I mean things like hardcore/extreme religious veiws/practices, failure to recognise the hosts laws/customs/attitudes, extreme Cultural rituals like infant gential mutilation, Polygamy, repression of certain rights etc, hatred for the host country/refusal to integrate socially etc.

But would anybody really disagree with me on that though? You don't need extremism to promote Cultural diversity.

Althogh I admit, you're treading on very, very thin ice when you debate stuff like this, 'cause people can often assume you're like a Racist or something.

I also agree with Doktor that religion needs to be separated from state, and especially children shoul not be religiously labelled.

 

[twinmama]

DUH! Only White people are capable of being Racist.

As for the topic of integration, I believe others who come to a host country can bring "light" Cultural baggage, but not "heavy" Cultural baggage.

What I mean by that is, "light" being stuff like clothing/styles, names, cultural celebrations, religion, decorations, different sports/food recipes etc etc, y' know all that stuff.

But by "heavy" stuff, I mean things like hardcore/extreme religious veiws/practices, failure to recognise the hosts laws/customs/attitudes, extreme Cultural rituals like infant gential mutilation, Polygamy, repression of certain rights etc, hatred for the host country/refusal to integrate socially etc.

Europe has no problem with "light" stuff. We are after all lot of small countries with different cultures/religions/languages/foods cramped next to each other. Europeans learn quite young many different languages, travel and so on.

Europe is struggling very much with "heavy" stuff at the moment and like I said in my earlier post - because politicians of Europe do not act, Europeans are getting angrier and angrier - and this has opened the doors to extreme rightwing parties that are gaining more and more power.

(Yes, actually, it seems that only us whites are racists. I would be killed in 7 countries, put to prison in dozens of others and yet no one says anything about those countries being racist? )

 

[Aquitaine]

Europe has no problem with "light" stuff. We are after all lot of small countries with different cultures/religions/languages/foods cramped next to each other. Europeans learn quite young many different languages, travel and so on.

Europe is struggling very much with "heavy" stuff at the moment and like I said in my earlier post - because politicians of Europe do not act, Europeans are getting angrier and angrier - and this has opened the doors to extreme rightwing parties that are gaining more and more power.

(Yes, actually, it seems that only us whites are racists. I would be killed in 7 countries, put to prison in dozens of others and yet no one says anything about those countries being racist? )

Unfortunately, in my country atleast (UK), it goes both ways:

The failure by the Government to deal with all the Heavy stuff makes the indigenous people angry, and more support goes to the BNP along with hatred towards minorities.

However, at the same time, the support for the BNP and the hatred against minorities makes the minorities in return, harbour hatred for the indigenous population, and end up joining extreme groups like UAF and islam4uk etc.

So it's a vicious cycle really.

This is why I'm very skeptic of the concept of Multi-Culturalism. Don't get me wrong, I believe in the genetic advantages in Multi-Racialism, I think that's a good thing, but judging by how our Government has "sold" Multi-Culturalism to us, and how it's blatently not working - I'm no longer a supporter of such a concept. Atleast not in the UK anyways.

But if I were to say that in conversation in person, even to my friends (which has happened before), I get told to stop being Racist (which has happened before).

 

[Makaveli]

For the most part, people are rational when the electricity is on, they've got running water and utilities, and the television is on. It takes something rather serious to prompt them to act in a seriously irrational manner. When far-right parties were elected in Europe in the 1930s, it was in response to the global depression that, to them, had no end in sight. Fascist and other far-right movements promised action, and so they were voted into power over their anemic predecessors.

Now again, we are seeing a right-wing resurgence in some parts of Europe; not a major one, perhaps, but certainly one to take note of and watch. This stuff doesn't just happen spontaneously, it happens because it has been prompted in some way. The huge influx of immigrants is always a strain on any country, and a significant influx that refuses to respect the laws of that country is even worse. These immigrants bring with them a culture that is antagonistic to the native European one, they refuse to respect the norms and the laws, and they seek to impose their own unwelcome brand on this nation they have taken up as their new home.

Europe is not Eurabia, to be frank. Diversity is all well and good until it tries to supplant that which is native with that which is foreign, like a cancer. Paul Rusco speaks of "light" and "heavy," and I couldn't agree more. I'm all for integration of "light" cultural norms, which don't do any overt harm, but the "heavy" form should not be tolerated whatsoever. The problem is that many immigrants are unwilling to compromise, despite the fact that it is they who immigrated.

Europeans are getting fed up with this hogwash, and rightfully so. These right-wing groups are being elected into power for a reason.

 

[Aquitaine]

For the most part, people are rational when the electricity is on, they've got running water and utilities, and the television is on. It takes something rather serious to prompt them to act in a seriously irrational manner. When far-right parties were elected in Europe in the 1930s, it was in response to the global depression that, to them, had no end in sight. Fascist and other far-right movements promised action, and so they were voted into power over their anemic predecessors.

Now again, we are seeing a right-wing resurgence in some parts of Europe; not a major one, perhaps, but certainly one to take note of and watch. This stuff doesn't just happen spontaneously, it happens because it has been prompted in some way. The huge influx of immigrants is always a strain on any country, and a significant influx that refuses to respect the laws of that country is even worse. These immigrants bring with them a culture that is antagonistic to the native European one, they refuse to respect the norms and the laws, and they seek to impose their own unwelcome brand on this nation they have taken up as their new home.

Europe is not Eurabia, to be frank. Diversity is all well and good until it tries to supplant that which is native with that which is foreign, like a cancer. Paul Rusco speaks of "light" and "heavy," and I couldn't agree more. I'm all for integration of "light" cultural norms, which don't do any overt harm, but the "heavy" form should not be tolerated whatsoever. The problem is that many immigrants are unwilling to compromise, despite the fact that it is they who immigrated.

Europeans are getting fed up with this hogwash, and rightfully so. These right-wing groups are being elected into power for a reason.

Yep. That's the problem when a Government simply doesn't listen to it's people. Then the people think "screw them, I'll vote for these guys". Like in the UK now, it's "screw New Labour" and unfortunately some Brits are now going "I'm voting for BNP!". Although to be fair, I don't think the BNP are much of a threat to the UK 'cause in reality they have a tiny base of supporters.

Immigration is a very good thing: providing it is controlled and used in moderation. Hell, even Alceste here came to the UK and did good.

The problem is though, is that in the UK there's been far too many allowed in without question, and they bring their families, and honestly the infrastructure is struggling to cope with the sharp rise in population.

 

[Doktor]

..................Paul Rusco speaks of "light" and "heavy," and I couldn't agree more.
I'm all for integration of "light" cultural norms, which don't do any overt harm, but the "heavy" form should not be tolerated whatsoever. The problem is that many immigrants are unwilling to compromise, despite the fact that it is they who immigrated.

Europeans are getting fed up with this hogwash, and rightfully so. These right-wing groups are being elected into power for a reason.

Couldn't agree more on "light" / "heavy".
Heavy to me is the kind off stuff that is in no way accepted in a modern society.

• Inequality of genders
• Circumcision of young girls
• Honour killings
• Forced Marriages

To relate to my post "Religion as a shield"
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/religious-debates/86560-religion-shield.html
This is a touchy subject, not religion!

 

[twinmama]

Electricity isn't always enough. The violence and riots in Sweden(Malmö, Stockholm and Göteborg) show clearly that things are boiling. After all, we are talking about Sweden where there is everything served in golden plate(meaning social security, housing, health care, free schooling). When I read what is happening in Sweden it really takes my faith away from mixing up cultures. It of course depends from the cultures who are in the mix. For example we have/are getting lot of refugees from Burma, bo problems at all. They come here, study hard the language, get work(we have 3 years free integration program for refugees - everything is paid)put all their kids to school, invite natives to their celebrations - they are very much liked.

Don't get me wrong, I know how hard it is to adjust to new culture. I have lived and worked in other countries and it can be mentally quite a hardship. But it also depends on your own attitude. My spouse is not a Finn so I still live and see everyday the problems strange culture can cause.

(Circumcision of ALL children in general belongs to the "heavy" stuff here. The medical association of Finland along with child protection organisation made a statement saying that circumcision is child abuse and doctors here refuse to do it based on child protection laws caused of course...you know what. All finnish doctors are racists.)

 

[Aquitaine]

Electricity isn't always enough. The violence and riots in Sweden(Malmö, Stockholm and Göteborg) show clearly that things are boiling. After all, we are talking about Sweden where there is everything served in golden plate(meaning social security, housing, health care, free schooling). When I read what is happening in Sweden it really takes my faith away from mixing up cultures. It of course depends from the cultures who are in the mix. For example we have/are getting lot of refugees from Burma, bo problems at all. They come here, study hard the language, get work(we have 3 years free integration program for refugees - everything is paid)put all their kids to school, invite natives to their celebrations - they are very much liked.

Don't get me wrong, I know how hard it is to adjust to new culture. I have lived and worked in other countries and it can be mentally quite a hardship. But it also depends on your own attitude. My spouse is not a Finn so I still live and see everyday the problems strange culture can cause.

(Circumcision of ALL children in general belongs to the "heavy" stuff here. The medical association of Finland along with child protection organisation made a statement saying that circumcision is child abuse and doctors here refuse to do it based on child protection laws caused of course...you know what. All finnish doctors are racists.)

Immigration can work, as we all know. It's just a shame that it's not controlled properly by our Governments. I wonder what is causing all the European Governments to behave in such a way with regards to Immigration?
Perhaps it has something to do with the EU policies?
Everytime I hear of why the UK cannot deport a failed Asylum Seeker or Immigrant Murderer/Rapist, or cannot put a cap on Immigration, it's always because it would "violate" some EU policy, or European Council of Human Rights. Is it the same for the rest of Europe?

 

[Kathryn]

Native Europeans better up their birth rate. They're far below "replacement rate" and huge sociological shifts are in their near future.

 

[Doktor]

Burn the condoms and get to work boys and girls

i dont think there is a need for more children in this world, is should be the path of the world to unite and not solve their problems separately.

China has everyone covered....heh

 

[darkendless]

Burn the condoms and get to work boys and girls

i dont think there is a need for more children in this world, is should be the path of the world to unite and not solve their problems separately.

China has everyone covered....heh

Yes but do we want our culture and race bred out by the Chinese who obviously have burnt enough condoms for the whole world the way they multiply? India is not far behind.

 

[Doktor]

Yes but do we want our culture and race bred out by the Chinese who obviously have burnt enough condoms for the whole world the way they multiply? India is not far behind.

The China part was a joke :yes:

No of course we still need to reproduce, but not in a "oh no....we are getting fewer" kinda way.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

If global warming continues at the present rate and so does deforestation of the rain-forests.
The worlds population will at least halve in the next 20 years.
The pressure on food and other recourses will result in some extreme views and policies finding their way into day to day politics.